Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee visits Baykar UAV facility in Turkey

[ProudPak]

Yeah but they're developing the engines as we speak, so in 3-5 years even those won't be an issue. Hilariously, the Turks are working with Ukraine on UAV engines. Ukraine is the other country which wanted to work with us on aerospace, but our heads were up Russia's rear that time (God knows why).

I was basically the only person saying in 2016 that we should work with Turkey, South Africa and Ukraine. We Pakistanis would sell the cave without checking if it's a salt mine first, and then complain why others were selling our salt.

Answer Is very simple.
We are a reactive nation
We dont have confidence in our own abilities.
We still believe crap from the white man is better than the best we have.
This is very sad thinking

We all have our weirdos, but the vast majority of Pakistani people view Turkish achievements very favourably, as brothers should.

It's not about being brothers. Turkish stuff is not only good but battle tested

 

[KaiserX]

On this forum you will find a lot of turkish apologist, iranian apologist, UAE apologist, US apologist, UK apologist, hell our aukat is that we even have South African Apologist

This forum has become a joke, not just that the mindset of my people is that of a joke. We go off on Indians for being colonized for thousands years by MUSLIMS, yet we as native MUSLIMS of PAKISTAN have 0 self confidence it is purely laughable the state of our people. Our common people, our politicians, our generals, hell even the state of so called "EDUCATED" Pakistanis overseas. While the educated overseas of the past gave their all for Pakistan ie Jinnah, AQ Khan, Abdus Salam, etc... todays educated Pakistani are so ignorant and UNEDUCATED they find any excuse for our generals to procture overseas weapons at x10 markups so they can live in the best plots of DHS, BAHRIA TOWN, ETC... all filled by the pockets of loot from politicians.

If you want an example of self respect go read the iranian forums, go read chinese forums, hell even read AFGHAN FORUMS they have more aukat than 90% of people on this forum.

You know what arabs, turks, europeans, americans tell me overseas? why Pakistan as a nuclear power with so much talent is such a shithole? well look yourselves in the mirror and think what you think about your own nation.

If I had my way or SHARIAS way which most people on this forum I hope follow atleast in religion then 99% of our politicians, generals, police officers, business man would be taken care of asap. Those who make their people fools and suck their blood should not be shown any sympathy.

I have come to the point where I respect someone like MODI/HASINA x100 times any leader or general we have. Atleast their nutjobs look at their own country first second third. Here we have mir jafars in the dark all over Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

Pakistan in 2016: "Everything in Turkey's actually Western origin. No point in working with them on anything. And no one cares about South African stuff."

Pakistan in 2021: "Can we buy Turkish drones and Emirati-South African mini-drones?"

Honestly, what a nation. We literally could have co-developed this stuff from them and not ask this question, "can we buy?"

Hi,

Please name person in charge during that time period.

 

[Awan68]

On this forum you will find a lot of turkish apologist, iranian apologist, UAE apologist, US apologist, UK apologist, hell our aukat is that we even have South African Apologist

This forum has become a joke, not just that the mindset of my people is that of a joke. We go off on Indians for being colonized for thousands years by MUSLIMS, yet we as native MUSLIMS of PAKISTAN have 0 self confidence it is purely laughable the state of our people. Our common people, our politicians, our generals, hell even the state of so called "EDUCATED" Pakistanis overseas. While the educated overseas of the past gave their all for Pakistan ie Jinnah, AQ Khan, Abdus Salam, etc... todays educated Pakistani are so ignorant and UNEDUCATED they find any excuse for our generals to procture overseas weapons at x10 markups so they can live in the best plots of DHS, BAHRIA TOWN, ETC... all filled by the pockets of loot from politicians.

If you want an example of self respect go read the iranian forums, go read chinese forums, hell even read AFGHAN FORUMS they have more aukat than 90% of people on this forum.

You know what arabs, turks, europeans, americans tell me overseas? why Pakistan as a nuclear power with so much talent is such a shithole? well look yourselves in the mirror and think what you think about your own nation.

If I had my way or SHARIAS way which most people on this forum I hope follow atleast in religion then 99% of our politicians, generals, police officers, business man would be taken care of asap. Those who make their people fools and suck their blood should not be shown any sympathy.

I have come to the point where I respect someone like MODI/HASINA x100 times any leader or general we have. Atleast their nutjobs look at their own country first second third. Here we have mir jafars in the dark all over Pakistan.

I gave up posting too much on this forum for this very reason, u have mods who defend foreign members who openly abuse Pakistan specifically Iranians, u have Iranians mouthing off on this forum as if they have Vedic tech yet any one with knowledge worth a bag of salt in defence knows they have nothing but hot air. U see people here defending foreign countries more than Pakistan, mods here not only allow but themselves indulge in targeting the Islamic nature of Pakistan. Turks really are our brethren and probably the only foreign nation I like but these so called experts on this forum trying to undermine the highly sensitive ridiculously advanced tech that Pakistan possesses in the BM, CM and fighter jet domain in comparison to some advances of turkey in basic military tech is a crime in my eyes and a reflection of why this nation has not yet assumed its mantle of the strongest Muslim country on earth although it already is. We posses MIRV for heavens sake n these simps are crying over drones.

 

[crankthatskunk]

The whole US rocket/space program was started/boasted by the kidnapped/absconding German engineers

True , the famous Wernher Van Braun started it all.

Germany rocket technology was way ahead of USA and Allies at the time. USA brought them as prisoners to the USA and provided them funds and facilities to create rockets, which eventually help them in military, nuclear use and space exploration.

What everyone keep missing is the point that corruption and corrupt politicians have wasted decades.
In those decades there had been no progress on establishing a stable and progressive industrial base, with emphasis on R & D.

That's what I wanted to point out that Establishment helping the corrupt thugs in politics is equally responsible if not more.

Pakistan could easily have been a giant in the Islamic world and world at large, if they have worked to gradually introduce and establish an industrial base.

Instead we are monsters in corruption and wasting time and resources through corrupt practices.
They say "Rome wasn't built in one day". That is very much true. That's why Pakistan should find the culprits who have wasted decades , huge resources and have done nothing at all.

Nawaz Sharif says (very proudly) that he progressed Pakistan by construction of motorway i.e. M2.
What he doesn't tell the country that from there his own personal fortune started to change.

Three decades since American Author disclosed $460 million dollars corruption by NS in M2 and import of wheat scandals. Until today there had been no enquiries and action against NS on those corruption.
Those allegations have stood for 3 decades without a response from NS. Why should he, when he knows he got away with it!!

1 US $ was Rs 45.04 in 1988, this makes it US $ 1.54 billion in today's dollar rate of US $ Rs 153.

When a nation is so careless about its own future; it deserves Dacoits in the shape of Sharifs and Zardaris.

Mark my words, if Pakistanis do not started to take action against the root causes of their plight now, they would be in similar mess in 2/3 decades. How many lessons you have to learn to change your ways!!!

You lost half of your country to Indian's cunning planning, while you were either asleep or in case of Bhutto trying to further your own ambitions oppose to your nation's interests.

Have we seen anyone held responsible!! Even the commission's report is not made public.
Have you ever seen so callus attitude from a nation, that despite losing half of the country, no investigations to find the responsible individuals!!! No actions against anyone!!

Pakistan and Pakistanis are doomed until they change their thinking.

Let me break it to you all, who think they are very smart and clever.
You are among the worst nations on the planet, who cannot bring it's house in order despite 7 decades of misery for its people.

Smart and intelligent people work towards betterment of their populations.
In Pakistan crooks work for betterment of their own families.

In the meanwhile, its clever Media and Commentators play the tunes of their "superiority and intelligence".

Long live Banana Republic of Pakistan.

I said among the worst nations for Pakistan. Here is a sample who should be.............

a

I thought I will end it on a smiling note, after a long boring lecture. lolz
He should have bought moon rock from eBay.

 

[Titanium100]

Lowkey troll feast thread which is unnecessary

 

[T-SaGe]

Those who look at the relationship between the two countries according to the products on the shelves, produce erroneous analyzes. And I think there are very few people here who can have a sound idea of how deep the strategic plane and its roots.

I don't know if it was reflected in the Pakistani media, but the Chief of General Staff of Pakistan said the following(according to Turkish reporters): We never give up to support each other with Turkey, we have not even hesitated.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1377200942572056579

What is at stake here is not a buyer and seller relationship. There is a relationship between two siblings who are sincerely connected. The strategic gains that this will produce in the long term are incomparably greater than the yields of a few military systems that are being talked about today and will create significant changes in regional geopolitics.

Precisely for this reason, Pakistan-Turkey relations must be battered by those who want to maintain the traditional status quo of the region. Believe it or not, the new world order is taking shape.

 

[Paul2]

Yeah but they're developing the engines as we speak, so in 3-5 years even those won't be an issue. Hilariously, the Turks are working with Ukraine on UAV engines. Ukraine is the other country which wanted to work with us on aerospace, but our heads were up Russia's rear that time (God knows why).

I was basically the only person saying in 2016 that we should work with Turkey, South Africa and Ukraine. We Pakistanis would sell the cave without checking if it's a salt mine first, and then complain why others were selling our salt.

Their industry is messed up, and they are shipping like single digits of engines per-year.

That was the same during AK motor shipments. Now they are allegedly incapable of even servicing them.

 

[Goenitz]

I get it, we lack feeder industries and critical inputs, ok, then why not invest in those? Our armed forces have enough clout to involve themselves in our economy over real estate and CPEC, but not invest in gas turbines, composites and steel, and semi-conductors? There's something seriously wrong here bro.

Seriously, I feel the same.. The people/org who have money, in Pak, just think of flour/sugar mils, property, news channel (not now), pvt education institutes, etc.

They didn't think about MEMS lab, composites, high strength steel, etc. You now, our chemical imports are 5$ billion dollars !! No one interested in chemical industry except fertilisers. Then we don't have vaccine manufacturers.

Even we can have some HQ agrarian products, if our institutes can just do research. Like Japanese Ruby Roman grapes, 1000$/bunch, or Wagyu beef 1000$/kilo. and Gulf can be the target market to sell these expensive items.

 

[Windjammer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1377232635769061383

 

[CriticalThought]

Hey @Bilal Khan (Quwa) because you are fretting over Pakistani planning in this thread, here is how we do it in Australia as comparison.

Key points:

1. Having lots of money.
2. Having a first world infrastructure on which you can build further.
3. Having a 'strategic industry partner'.

In the Pakistani context:

1. Economy ruined by design through collaboration between West and local traitors.
2. Education ruined similarly.
3. We are Muslim and America will NEVER create any meaningful local manufacturing which would allow us to become independent and powerful.

China faces a similar situation, except in their case the clash is between Communism/Socialism and Capitalism. But they have a strong leadership and a hardworking people who will put their head down, and work hard all their life without needing huge properties or large bank balances. In turn, their leaders are focused on elevating them from poverty and providing them with modern infrastructure and services.

Pakistan's woes are the result of our collective sins. May Allah the Almighty Show us the right path and Help us in persevering upon it. Aameen.

Sovereign Guided Weapons Manufacturing | Prime Minister of Australia (pm.gov.au)

The Morrison Government will accelerate the creation of a $1 billion Sovereign Guided Weapons Enterprise, boosting skilled jobs and helping secure Australia’s sovereign defence capabilities.

The Department of Defence will now select a strategic industry partner to operate a sovereign guided weapons manufacturing capability on behalf of the Government as a key part of the new Enterprise.

The new Enterprise will support missile and guided weapons manufacturing for use across the Australian Defence Force.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said creating a sovereign defence industrial capability was a key priority for the Government while also creating new opportunities for jobs and small business growth.

“Creating our own sovereign capability on Australian soil is essential to keep Australians safe, while also providing thousands of local jobs in businesses right across the defence supply chain,” the Prime Minister said.

“As the COVID-19 pandemic has shown, having the ability for self-reliance, be it vaccine development or the defence of Australia, is vital to meeting our own requirements in a changing global environment.

“It’s an imperative we now proceed with the creation of a sovereign guided weapons capability as a priority, accelerating this process following the idea first being explored in the Force Structure Plan.”

The Minister for Defence Peter Dutton said that the Government will use a Smart Buyer process to select an experienced strategic industry partner to build a sovereign capability to manufacture a suite of precision weapons that will meet Australia’s growing needs and provide export opportunities as a second source of supply.

“The manufacturing and supply of weapons in Australia will not only benefit and enhance our ADF operational capacity but will ensure we have adequate supply of weapon stock holdings to sustain combat operations if global supply chains are disrupted,” Minister Dutton said.

“To advance this initiative I will be designating the Chief of Joint Capabilities as the capability manager for the national guided weapons enterprise to ensure that we leverage this strategic capability across the ADF and beyond.

“This announcement builds on the agreement the Morrison Government achieved at AUSMIN last year to pursue options to encourage bilateral defence trade and to advance initiatives that diversify and harness our industry cooperation.

“We will work closely with the United States on this important initiative to ensure that we understand how our enterprise can best support both Australia’s needs and the growing needs of our most important military partner.”

Minister for Defence Industry Melissa Price said this initiative was an important part of the Government’s $270 billion, 10-year investment in Defence and Australia’s defence industry.

“According to defence industry estimates this new national enterprise could be worth $40 billion in local production and export over the next 20 years,” Minister Price said.

“Utilising sophisticated manufacturing processes, industry also says this could create well over 2,000 jobs in different locations across the nation.

“Australia’s defence industry already has tremendous capability in the area of weapons technology, including the Nulka decoy missile and the Government Owned Contractor Operated explosive factories at Benalla and Mulawa.

“The Government is confident that this represents the necessary industrial capability that will be transferrable to areas like guided weapons.”

Minister for Industry, Science and Technology Christian Porter said that this initiative would directly support the Morrison Government’s Modern Manufacturing Strategy, where defence is one of the key areas of focus.

“Manufacturing is critical to a modern Australia economy and creating a sovereign capacity to manufacture sovereign guided weapons will drive innovation, skills and resilient supply chains.”

“This initiative will help us leverage Defence investment to grow a high-tech manufacturing ecosystem in Australia,” Minister Porter said.

The Australian Strategic Policy Institute has estimated that Australia will spend $100 billion in the next 20 years on missile and guided weapons purchases.

Minister Porter released the National Manufacturing Defence Roadmap today, showing a ten year plan for investment and industry growth.

“The road map identifies opportunities for defence manufacturers to build on existing areas of strength such as military vehicle and aircraft manufacturing, naval shipbuilding and marine hardware production, cutting-edge digital technologies such as 3D printing, and explosives and propellants,” Minister Porter said.

“The road map also identifies opportunities for Australian manufacturers to build scale and capability in three key areas: investment in the defence sector, defence exports and adapting advanced technologies to the defence sector or for civilian application.”

Minister Porter also opened the $1.3 billion Modern Manufacturing Initiative for projects in the defence sector, underpinned by an industry-led road map.

Initial applications will be limited to the Translation and Integration streams of the Modern Manufacturing Initiative, with expressions of interest for the larger Collaboration stream to open in coming months.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

 

[Goenitz]

China faces a similar situation, except in their case the clash is between Communism/Socialism and Capitalism

Yes they had a stable govt, and Chinese are very hard working.. but what really took them off is focus on primary/secondary education and skill development. The university education emphasis came later in 80s.

 

[T-SaGe]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1377232635769061383

(...)
Kotil stated that the company is carrying out 3 aircraft, 6 helicopters, 2 unmanned aerial vehicles, and 1 target aircraft project and that they are continuing their satellite projects. Kotil pointed out that their most important project is MMU and stated that besides 3000 TAI personnel for the project, 3000 personnel will be needed in other companies that will contribute to the project.

(...)
Pointing out that the engine of MMU will be developed by TR Motor, Kotil noted that they received the support of other companies in the development of the sub and side components of the engine. Kotil said, "Landing gear will be made by Italian and Turkish companies collaboration but the industrial rights will belong to Turkey. Air conditioning solutions will be developed and manufactured in Turkey. For the aircraft to become an MMU, It should belong to us."

(...)
"Because what you could originally buy, you may not be able to get it later. First, they say 'I give', then 'I don't'. We are trying to make MMU as local as possible from the very beginning. Everything must be local and national for it to be sold to friendly countries. We have no choice but to spread this over time, including the engine. " said.

(...)
Temel Kotil emphasized that they can give everything, outside the concept design of the aircraft, and that they expect the partner countries and companies that take responsibility to focus on this and continue this in a long-term manner.

TAI: We Are Working On Unmanned Fighter Aircraft

TUSAŞ General Manager Kotil stated that they are working on unmanned aircraft technologies in addition to MMU(T-F), where artificial intelligence acts as a second pilot. Temel Kotil, General Manager of Turkish Aviation and Space Industry Inc. (TUSAŞ), made statements about the ongoing projects...

defence.pk

Key notes from TAI's general manager Kotil's recent interview. I think there is a significant potential here that Pakistani aviation and related-engineering companies can use.

Can AZM and MMU be combined, I don't know. MMU is leaving the PDR process behind. Conceptual studies and most of prelimanary works have been completed and prototype production is started. Probably, the year 2021 has been determined as a deadline for possible joint development of MMU, in this sense.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

(...)
Kotil stated that the company is carrying out 3 aircraft, 6 helicopters, 2 unmanned aerial vehicles, and 1 target aircraft project and that they are continuing their satellite projects. Kotil pointed out that their most important project is MMU and stated that besides 3000 TAI personnel for the project, 3000 personnel will be needed in other companies that will contribute to the project.

(...)
Pointing out that the engine of MMU will be developed by TR Motor, Kotil noted that they received the support of other companies in the development of the sub and side components of the engine. Kotil said, "Landing gear will be made by Italian and Turkish companies collaboration but the industrial rights will belong to Turkey. Air conditioning solutions will be developed and manufactured in Turkey. For the aircraft to become an MMU, It should belong to us."

(...)
"Because what you could originally buy, you may not be able to get it later. First, they say 'I give', then 'I don't'. We are trying to make MMU as local as possible from the very beginning. Everything must be local and national for it to be sold to friendly countries. We have no choice but to spread this over time, including the engine. " said.

(...)
Temel Kotil emphasized that they can give everything, outside the concept design of the aircraft, and that they expect the partner countries and companies that take responsibility to focus on this and continue this in a long-term manner.

TAI: We Are Working On Unmanned Fighter Aircraft

TUSAŞ General Manager Kotil stated that they are working on unmanned aircraft technologies in addition to MMU(T-F), where artificial intelligence acts as a second pilot. Temel Kotil, General Manager of Turkish Aviation and Space Industry Inc. (TUSAŞ), made statements about the ongoing projects...

defence.pk

Key notes from TAI's general manager Kotil's recent interview. I think there is a significant potential here that Pakistani aviation and related-engineering companies can use.

Can AZM and MMU be combined, I don't know. MMU is leaving the PDR process behind. Conceptual studies and most of prelimanary works have been completed and prototype production is started. Probably, the year 2021 has been determined as a deadline for possible joint development of MMU, in this sense.

@JamD