Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[DANGER-ZONE]

Atar 9 series is a turbojet.

RD-33/93 series is a turbo fan.


Plus RD93 offers more thrust in after burning mode.

For starters, Atar 9C is about 400kgs heavier than the RD 33, not to mention the internal plumbing regarding the two different engine designs.

Why would you put a turbojet, that is heavier and uses more fuel providing less thrust, when you can have a more robust RD33/93?

Mirage's Atar engine can be replaced with RD-33 engines with a little modification in aircraft and in engine. South Africans did it with their Cheetahs and Mirage F-1 ....

Super Cheetah:

Super Mirage F1:

Bayou Renaissance Man: Weekend Wings #41: South Africa's "Franken-Mirages", Part 3 of 3

 

[araz]

its upgrades are done at home with all facilities at home so very little chances of politicians having commission……
but nothing is impossible……
well btw its uogrades and PAF mairage program was past…

Does not stop OTHER hands getting their fingers in the pie. it is noyt only politicians who make money out of defence related deals. There are people who are specifically cultivated to advance foreign interests and secure deals for foreign vendors.
Araz

 

[araz]

Oscar .
Firstly would you please delete my duplicate post on the last page as i cant seem to do so.
The M3/5 upgrade was thought out to bide our time in the difficult 90s. We lost out on the F16 front and were Zardaried out of the M2K deal. Later on the French did not want to play ball with us on M2Ks So we had no where to goand hence the upgrade. The airframes are mostly old and additional expenditure of changin engines is not worth while. As soon as suitable replacements are available they will be side lined. But in True PAF style they will be squeezed out of their last ounce of life before we do send them to the aeronautical graveyard.
Araz

 

[SQ8]

squeezed out of their last ounce of life before we do send them to the aeronautical graveyard.
Araz

Considering that the PAF phased out the F-86 that it inducted in 1956 around 1983.. and that the last B-57 was phased out in 88.
The mirages should probably be gone in 30 as well. However, they've been around since 69-70..and it is about 45 years of flying that type.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Considering that the PAF phased out the F-86 that it inducted in 1956 around 1983.. and that the last B-57 was phased out in 88.
The mirages should probably be gone in 30 as well. However, they've been around since 69-70..and it is about 45 years of flying that type.

From the mouth of the guy driving one of these ROSE upgraded planes, the timeline for these aircrafts to retire is 2018-20 window due to the delays in JF-17s induction, otherwise it was 2014-15 time frame.

 

[Jango]

to the delays in JF-17s induction,

Interesting...

So our suspicions were true.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

When i was a kid... i loved the Mirage design more than the f-16s....used to buy Mirage V models n posters... cared less abt its capabilities...

 

[ziaulislam]

Please don't get me wrong, but, Mirage upgrade can be very fruitful for your politicians pocket. I've seen this it in BD. BAF bought 16 (stop-gap as they say, though, I wonder which gap they were filling) F-7BGI (based on 1960 designed Mig-21F13) which derives from the latest variant of Chengdu J-7G. They bought these when the country needed at least 2 squadrons (32-36) of Mig-29SMT or Su-30MK. Wasting the taxpayers money they have gone for F-7BGI which by the way, can not compete against any 4th generation fighter even after heavy upgrades (same goes with F-7PG, Mirage-3/5).

So, comes the question: Why? BAF bought those, well to make the politicians reach. I believe, same is in your case as well. To get even more reach they might do the Rose4 as well.

PAF were very familiar with mirages plus it costed only 120 million..thats very cheap..paf got alot of aircrafts and spares for very low cost ..i am pretty sure PAF had jf-17 in mind back in late 90s and the rose was considered as a stop gap till 2015
it made PAF cpable of night strike precison strike and the controversial BVR capablity plus helped PAF to maintain its number. lastly PAF had no other option at that time

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

the BEGINNING of the phase-out was to have started by 2015.

it will likely be extended another 5-10 years after that date

the PAC at this point can take them apart and assemble them with their eyes closed.....a near written-off one was brought back to life; hardly used Lebanese Mirages were brough back to full life and sold in 1999 or 2000 i think. Where there's will there's a way. But everything has a lifespan and the lifespan of these aircrafts is near the end.


and yes - they've served PAF dutifully and I know it'll be a huge pride of my childhood. Saw them a couple times during a rare visit to Karachiville

 

[muse]

You are still not getting my point. .So muse saheb at the moment you are not going to engage any businessman in your venture.Araz

Sir I take your point and would highlight that in Pakistan of a couple of years ago and even today, the notion of a privately financed and built hydro electric project would be nonsensical -- and yet

Nawaz inaugurates first private hydro power plant in Pakistan - DAWN.COM

 

[SQ8]

Sir I take your point and would highlight that in Pakistan of a couple of years ago and even today, the notion of a privately financed and built hydro electric project would be nonsensical -- and yet

Nawaz inaugurates first private hydro power plant in Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Its not the notion of the private venture but the investment itself. The PAF knows the ATAR quite well and has actually generated some parts for it on its own. The same way it was able to come up with a few modifications to the PW F100 as well. However, compared to the F-100.. the ATAR series are a very outdated design.. just as you would not recommend learning to make a carburetor equipped car as compared to a fuel injection one.
Moreover, to convince a private investor that they should invest millions of dollars into the line means you give them an acceptable rate of return. Something that may not be guaranteed at all with such a risky venture.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Interesting...

So our suspicions were true.

I am talking about the delay during the initial days of the program, as the test and evaluation time frame took more time, the induction of JF-17 was delayed by more then 2-3 years. That is when the extension of the Mirages was taken.

ROSE mirages would be the last ones to go, may be even after the F-7Ps are decommissioned.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

and yes - they've served PAF dutifully and I know it'll be a huge pride of my childhood. Saw them a couple times during a rare visit to Karachiville

Remember one leading the flight past on 23 March 81 in Rawalpindi race course ground in the time of Gen Zia. saw Gen Zia in person as he arrived in his buggy . back then mirages were our top fighters. it did a high speed pass and then performed a vertical climb and spin .. was very spectacular for me when I sued to be a student of Sir Syed School.

 

[v9s]

When i was a kid... i loved the Mirage design more than the f-16s....used to buy Mirage V models n posters... cared less abt its capabilities...

Same here bro. The mirage series of fighters are one of the most beautiful aircrafts ever.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Same here bro. The mirage series of fighters are one of the most beautiful aircrafts ever.

Form follows function. These machines are designed for the purposes of war, and esthetics should not matter at all.