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Calling out the elephant in the room - TTP's origin and supporters.

I'm seeing a lot of odd opinions regarding the Peshawar bombing by TTP.

Some claims are:

- It's a conspiracy hatched by the state to kill Pashtuns specifically for god knows what reason.

- TTP are a proxy of the ISI.


I find these claims to be quite frankly rooted in a victim complex but also void of any reality.

Are we all going to deny the unusually large amount of support for the TTP in Pakistani society, especially in KPK?

Are we going to act like the TTP doesn't hold huge amounts of support in Pashtun nationalist circles, all Afghans and their refugees, PTM separatist types, and religious extremist folks?


To pin TTP and its attacks on the ISI is just funny to me considering the above, you will encounter Afghans, Afghan refugees, Pashtun nationalists, PTM type separatist all celebrating TTP and their attacks.

But now suddenly the TTP is an ISI proxy and their goal is to kill Pashtuns?

This is void of logic and reality to me, and seems immersed in a victim complex. Especially considering various channels connected to the TTP claimed responsibility then attempted to back out of it.

Opinions below please.

@villageidiot @epebble @Menace2Society @hussain0216 @Mirzali Khan @Solidify @313ghazi @Meengla @kingQamaR @PakFactor @Ali_14 @AlKardai @Mujahid Memon @Signalian

The denial, the victim mentality it's becoming abhorrent

Taliban are pashtuns
TTP are pashtuns
The terrorist who bombed a mosque was a pashtun
The terrorists who killed children at school were pashtuns



It's getting ridiculous to the point of obscene

The denial, victimhood, seeking to blame everyone and everything, the conspiracy theories





I'm sure most pashtuns are fine, but a proportion of them are animals and little more


Rather then accept this and seek change they embrace the innocent baby routine where they can do no wrong and have done no wrong


They are upset at pashtun dead (as are we all) but they refuse to understand that the killers are almost always pashtuns
 
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The denial, the victim mentality it's becoming abhorrent

Taliban are pashtuns
TTP are pashtuns
The terrorist who bombed a mosque was a pashtun
The terrorists who killed children at school were pashtuns



It's getting ridiculous to the point of obscene

The denial, victimhood, seeking to blame everyone and everything, the conspiracy theories





I'm sure most pashtuns are fine, but a proportion of them are animals and little more


Rather then accept this and seek change they embrace the innocent baby routine where they can do no wrong and have done no wrong


They are upset at pashtun dead (as are we all) but they refuse to understand that the killers are almost always pashtuns
Well this is the harsh reality, and you pretty much said it bluntly

I see questions of why does it always happen in KPK, why not Punjab or Sindhi or Lahore

But the answer to that is, where do these terrorists build their strongholds, which people provide them the most support, what ethnicity do the vast majority make up? Which area does Afghanistan have the easiest access to?

It will make clear sense
 
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The denial, the victim mentality it's becoming abhorrent

Taliban are pashtuns
TTP are pashtuns
The terrorist who bombed a mosque was a pashtun
The terrorists who killed children at school were pashtuns



It's getting ridiculous to the point of obscene

The denial, victimhood, seeking to blame everyone and everything, the conspiracy theories





I'm sure most pashtuns are fine, but a proportion of them are animals and little more


Rather then accept this and seek change they embrace the innocent baby routine where they can do no wrong and have done no wrong


They are upset at pashtun dead (as are we all) but they refuse to understand that the killers are almost always pashtuns

Look at this Taliban producing factory :lol:

 
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Look at this Taliban producing factory :lol:

And people wonder why the society is so extreme - no amount of political change will alter society.

You have to address the problems at a societal level to fix them. Even if you go secular like some people suggest, they would literally go to war against you lmfao
 
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And people wonder why the society is so extreme - no amount of political change will alter society.

You have to address the problems at a societal level to fix them. Even if you go secular like some people suggest, they would literally go to war against you lmfao
And some say this suave looking guy wanted this kind of Pakistan :lol:

8db76a84a04cc2fe83500545c9647b96.jpg


If he was around he would be horrified at these barbarians
 
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And some say this suave looking guy wanted this kind of Pakistan :lol:

8db76a84a04cc2fe83500545c9647b96.jpg


If he was around he would be horrified at these barbarians
I already laid out the solution multiple times.

State regulation of religion. And build actual schools and universities with proper STEM focused curriculums across the nation.

Formal education and prevent whatever extremism is promoted in madrassas using rules and regulations. The imams should be state verified and not having any extremist links or ideology.
 
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If TTP was a proxy of ISI, then bannu CTD centre attack and the killing of two ISI officials wouldn’t have occurred. It’s common sense which isn’t common.

TTP was not just Afghans or pushto speaking, there were many other nationalities which lived and settled in FATA. Those also put up a resistance in lal masjid siege. They included fighters from East European Muslim countries like Uzbeks, Tajiks etc. During operations by military, when TTP dead bodies were observed, they weren’t even Muslims.

Indian involvement comes in when any disgruntled group goes anti-Pakistan, that’s what RAW is looking for mostly. An individual who can become an asset or a group, they should harbour anti Pakistan feelings and RAW will fund and support them. TTP was an easy catch hands down.

TTP looks for soft targets and now that Army and FC have upgraded themselves and expanded, it’s the police which is bearing the brunt. The recent attack on police station was thwarted but TTP attackers didn’t just emerge from underneath the ground, they live with a certain ideology among the population.

Army, PAF and PN also once had individuals with such ideology who attacked Musharraf convoy and also did some other damages. They were rooted out and now the religion is not only followed strictly but officers/troops are kept under vigil eyes. The salah in Army had become part of its culture since it’s a religious obligation. This is why I once mentioned the fajr prayers and how that impacts Army since it gets linked with PT and physical training in morning. Apart from that fajr salah sets the rest of the day for troops. Even in mosques in cantts, and GOC houses, the day starts with fajr prayers. In 65 war, most units in Lahore had offered fajr salah and were falling in for PT and drill when they were rushed towards the border. Transport convoys and other military activities get connected with fajr prayers, to begin after prayers.

Anyways. the extremist ideology was thrown out of Army. Hopefully measures are taken to throw the extremist ideology out of society’s system.

Another issue is that public believes in becoming victims instantly yet whenever they take a step for religion, it’s out of extremism. The killing of Sri Lankan manager shows how much religious extremism has penetrated into the society that it draws curtains on brain to think rationally. This is how TTP terrorists think and act, without regard of human life and providing solution in form of violence, nothing else.

An effective tactic of TTP is coming to table for negotiations and ceasefire, both of which usually never materialise. Extremism doesn’t accept negotiation. Only a sound mind can negotiate, not a rigid one. Ceasefire is for regrouping and placing assets across cities, which is why I mentioned that crossing border now doesn’t need to occur. TTP knew the wall is coming up, they had years of preparation. Bringing in weapons, ammo, supplies, recruiting at will, etc.

India wants Pakistan to move its forces from eastern border to western border, permanently. PA doesn’t want that since PA is basically trained and equipped to fight India. That’s why FC and other LEA’s are in the region. Civil setup in FATA region isn’t strong or modernised. It has to cope up and the people of FATA have to cope up with modernisation. The tribals have to let go of their traditions and accept the legislation of Pakistan.

Have you seen BLA going quiet ? Now they are regrouping and strengthening, while TTP is ripping apart Pakistan, at least trying to. They seem to be waiting for a military ops to start against TTP to make their move. If Pakistan starts regular strikes in Afghanistan against TTP, maybe BLA also starts forming up its attacks inside Pakistan since it also gets threatened inside Afghanistan.

Times ahead are tough, especially with political turmoil between PTI and PDM. If IK, SS and COAS, all three are sincere to Pakistan, they should put their differences aside for a few months and drive this menace of terrorism out of Pakistan first, after that they can start biting each other at will for power.
 
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If TTP was a proxy of ISI, then bannu CTD centre attack and the killing of two ISI officials wouldn’t have occurred. It’s common sense which isn’t common.

TTP was not just Afghans or pushto speaking, there were many other nationalities which lived and settled in FATA. Those also put up a resistance in lal masjid siege. They included fighters from East European Muslim countries like Uzbeks, Tajiks etc. During operations by military, when TTP dead bodies were observed, they weren’t even Muslims.

Indian involvement comes in when any disgruntled group goes anti-Pakistan, that’s what RAW is looking for mostly. An individual who can become an asset or a group, they should harbour anti Pakistan feelings and RAW will fund and support them. TTP was an easy catch hands down.

TTP looks for soft targets and now that Army and FC have upgraded themselves and expanded, it’s the police which is bearing the brunt. The recent attack on police station was thwarted but TTP attackers didn’t just emerge from underneath the ground, they live with a certain ideology among the population.

Army, PAF and PN also once had individuals with such ideology who attacked Musharraf convoy and also did some other damages. They were rooted out and now the religion is not only followed strictly but officers/troops are kept under vigil eyes. The salah in Army had become part of its culture since it’s a religious obligation. This is why I once mentioned the fajr prayers and how that impacts Army since it gets linked with PT and physical training in morning. Apart from that fajr salah sets the rest of the day for troops. Even in mosques in cantts, and GOC houses, the day starts with fajr prayers. In 65 war, most units in Lahore had offered fajr salah and were falling in for PT and drill when they were rushed towards the border. Transport convoys and other military activities get connected with fajr prayers, to begin after prayers.

Anyways. the extremist ideology was thrown out of Army. Hopefully measures are taken to throw the extremist ideology out of society’s system.

Another issue is that public believes in becoming victims instantly yet whenever they take a step for religion, it’s out of extremism. The killing of Sri Lankan manager shows how much religious extremism has penetrated into the society that it draws curtains on brain to think rationally. This is how TTP terrorists think and act, without regard of human life and providing solution in form of violence, nothing else.

An effective tactic of TTP is coming to tackle for negotiations and ceasefire, both of which usually never materialise. Extremism doesn’t accept negotiation. Only a sound mind can negotiate, not a rigid one. Ceasefire is for regrouping and placing assets across cities, which is why I mentioned that crossing border now doesn’t need to occur. TTP knew the wall is coming up, they had years of preparation. Bringing in weapons, ammo, supplies, recruiting at will, etc.

India wants Pakistan to move its forces from eastern border to western border, permanently. PA doesn’t want that since PA is basically trained and equipped to fight India. That’s why FC and other LEA’s are in the region. Civil setup in FATA region isn’t strong or modernised. It has to cope up and the people of FATA have to cope up with modernisation. The tribals have to let go of their traditions and accept the legislation of Pakistan.

Have you seen BLA going quiet ? Now they are regrouping and strengthening, while TTP is ripping apart Pakistan, at least trying to. They seem to be waiting for a military ops to start against TTP to make their move. If Pakistan starts regular strikes in Afghanistan against TTP, maybe BLA also starts forming up its attacks inside Pakistan since it also gets threatened inside Afghanistan.

Times ahead are tough, especially with political turmoil between PTI and PDM. If IK, SS and COAS, all three are sincere to Pakistan, they should put their differences aside for a few months and drive this menace of terrorism out of Pakistan first, after that they can start biting each other at will for power.
You mention extremism in society - but what tangible or legislative actions have been taken against it?

India so far has been extremely successful in keeping Pakistan drained and occupied away from itself, it is exhausting its energy on internal insurgencies and the western border. It grows and solidifies it's powerful state institutions, develops it's economy and infrastructure, while we are stuck in pointless guerilla wars.

The civil set up is doing a horrible job at addressing the issues which have already been identified.
 
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You mention extremism in society - but what tangible or legislative actions have been taken against it?

India so far has been extremely successful in keeping Pakistan drained and occupied away from itself, it is exhausting its energy on internal insurgencies and the western border. It grows and solidifies it's powerful state institutions, develops it's economy and infrastructure, while we are stuck in pointless guerilla wars.

The civil set up is doing a horrible job at addressing the issues which have already been identified.
1.Blame game
There are so many LEAs that they blame their failure on others. politicians blame predecessors. Provinces blame each other or Federal Govt. one ministry blames another.

No one wants to do anything and neither let the other do anything. This stems from society, the public. We public are like that so why point fingers at leadership.

You know I mentioned introspection in another thread where someone lost his mind at me. There are many forms, one form is taking responsibility. If police is not doing its job to protect an area and complains lay on deaf ear, then formulate a plan to keep a security guard or start a neighbourhood watch to protect yourself and your family. How hard is that to understand. But nooooo, let’s sit idle and wait for a catastrophe while blame government day and night. This is just one example, there are many others.


2. Conspiracy theories
media is supposed to attract audience through spicy news and conspiracy theories otherwise who wants to watch the same expression less face on PTV at 9 pm as it once was. Media has a responsibility but it has to stay neutral, it can’t choose sides. Becoming vigilantes has its ups and downs. When it’s up, all is good, when it’s down, the victim mentality kicks in. Remember the Balboa speech ?
If you want something and it’s worth it then go and get what’s it worth instead of blaming him or her or anybody. Media has distorted the thinking so much that unless there is a twist from the usual, it doesn’t get accepted. Members say, media has opened their eyes, no, it has made them paranoid. Opening threads on tweets or media videos, without thinking but just to spread a certain agenda. Media mostly cannot present proofs, but it will do its best to connect the dots which won’t connect usually.

The civil setup can gear up if educated youth gets a chance to get employed but the sufarish mahol and political postings ruin the department’s. The positive and ambitious individuals feel the crunch and can’t fight the system so they go abroad or change careers.

A lot needs to change.
 
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No doubt there was initial local support to jihadist-types partly because of religious sympathies and because of search for alternative after failure of local government to provide a modicum of service needed for modern societies to function. In some ways, behaviour of locals is similar to that of Karachi awam that vote for MQM and for JI. Difference is that MQM and JI have some relatively rationalist elements among them who dont go around removing the heads of their opponents. TTP otoh, comprises of a bunch of criminals who have donned religious garb to protect criminal activity. Given the terrain, from time immemorial, these groups have operated with immunity. But with development of modern communication these groups have come under the crosshair of the state and of global powers. Their response is to weaken the state and hence their primary demand which is to reverse merger of FATA with NWFP. These criminals are guns for hire and they take the support of Indians and other criminal elements which want to weaken the state of Pakistan. Hence the alliance with BLA and targeting of Chinese.

Mainstream politicians, among whose number I include the great Khan, do not want to mess with TTP because they are afraid to offend religious lobby. Khan, because of his earlier lifestyle feels particularly vulnerable. And the army, because they did not want to be seen as American tuttoos, did not take on TTP with full force until APS massacre happened after which the high command overrode the politicians and went in all out.

But TTPv2 has risen again due to disastrous tenure of Bajwa which combined with IK's stupidity and lack of balls and his inability to act like a statesman has given TTP the opportunity to rise again. This time, task of army should easy given that locals don't want to do anything to do with TTP. Question is whether Army will do the right thing or continue with their totabaazi. Unless the likes of Nadeem Anjum are removed, I see little hope.
 
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Our , Pakistan state is sadly divided on whether terrorists are truly terrorists or Muslim brothers. I think mushraf himself once admitted that Pakistanis revere guys like Osama Bin Ladan or Haqqani.
 
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Our , Pakistan state is sadly divided on whether terrorists are truly terrorists or Muslim brothers. I think mushraf himself once admitted that Pakistanis revere guys like Osama Bin Ladan or Haqqani.
Honestly you know what I think the root problem is over here:

Pakistan is claiming itself to be an Islamic state, a state for Muslims, it has a practising Muslim majority 95%+ country, now when someone comes along wanting Sharia Law or something, people are subconsciously sympathetic towards them, because that's what an Islamic state requires, and they don't see it in Pakistan.

My question is:

"Will making Sharia Law official, and officially labelling any groups that pick up arms against the Pakistani state as Khawarij, solve the problem?"

It could destroy any sympathy because people will fully have belief in the state as an Islamic Republic. There will be no doubts. And we can confidently label these insurgent groups as Khawarijs.

Should this seriously be considered? @Signalian

In my opinion all the power will full into the state's hands, and all insurgent groups will become handicapped and weak against Pakistan...
 
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