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Is this the end of Pakistan? Have the colonial traitors sold the nation out?

Watch and see... Looking k at Pakistan today and just look back a year ago.... The downfall is faster and accelerating.... It's over.

Pakistan is a failed banana republic
I believe that Pakistan had seen even worse situations before .... Muslim umma will definitely help and bail out Pakistan. This is one good thing about being a muslim country
 
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India can't afford Pakistan to collapse either, we don't refugee influx in india or TTP cavemen getting hold of nuclear weapons, the current state of economy that can be described as barely alive is ideal
 
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Default isnt the end the world. It may mean new and better Pakistan post default with reforms.

Current state of begging from everyone after few years of yet another IMF program is worse.
 
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I believe that Pakistan had seen even worse situations before .... Muslim umma will definitely help and bail out Pakistan. This is one good thing about being a muslim country

Yes... I can definitely see waves of the Muslim Ummah rushing to help Somalia and Yemen!!!... Lol.
 
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Yes, it is the end of Pakistan. The world will continue. It's become the world's most evil and corrupt place.

Pakistan will never collapse. Pakistan military will never let that happen. The military leadership is not stupid enough to let its golden goose die.

Military isn't god. It cannot stop the demise of a nation that has totally failed. Name me one institution that still functioning as is it's supposed to????

Our past 75 years' history is a reflection of a fierce fight of a nation for its survival. We have been dealing with challenges since our birth as a independent nation in 1947. No doubt, we have made many mistakes (calling them blunders might be more appropriate) and as result we worsened our challenges. But all that mess that we find ourselves in is/was not the result of merely our mistakes. Briefly talking of our blunders, one can point at many factors (dominance of our political landscape by feudal lords, corrupt military leaders, linguistic fractures and under-currents, etc.) but, to my understanding, all those rogue factors can be described as a lack of nation-building process. We utterly failed in nation building especially during the extremely crucial first decade of our independence. Leaving all that on one side, what I want to emphasize here is that external factors too turned out extremely detrimental to the struggle for our national existence. For example, right after we got independence in 1947, Afghanistan, our western neighbor, waged a diplomatic war against us (on behalf of certain global/regional powers - namely USSR and India) besides trying active aggression against Pakistan on multiple occasions. But it didn't stop there. Afghanistan started acting as a spring board for launching insurgences (aka terrorism in current times) in KPK (then NWFP) and Balochistan by the hostile powers. Indians launched a similar separatist campaign in the former East Pakistan and finally broke it (with the active help of Soviets) to give birth to the current Bangladesh.

Post 1971, a new phase of global great game started appearing with the USSR defeating and actively chasing USA and Nato at many places (e.g. Eastern Europe, Africa, Middle East, Iran, etc.) while latter powers desperately retreated globally. The Soviets, after getting emboldened and enough confident by all their successful strategic advances, launched their most crucial aggression (i.e. the occupation of Afghanistan) in December 1979. That posed an existential threat to Pakistan. Of course, neither the people of Afghanistan nor Pakistan really invited Soviets in this region. It was a patient and very calculated move by the Soviets towards achieving their generational strategic goal of having an access to warm waters and control over the Strait of Hormuz.

Since Soviets had been using terrorism against (i.e. insurgencies in) Pakistan for long by then, they started hammering our country with frequent terrorist bombings, insurgent attacks, and diplomatic coarsening with much more intensity. That was , of course, not our choice. All that was imposed on us. Regardless, we stood up against Soviet aggression in Afghanistan or accepted it and tried to appease them, the writing was on the wall - the next logical target of Soviet invasion was Pakistan's Balochistan province. This nation chose to resist Soviet advance and fight against them in Afghanistan. Yes, this course of action brought the curse of narco and gun culture but that was the price that we had to pay for our national freedom.

Soviets left Afghanistan and, only less than two decades after that, Americans came in and occupied Afghanistan, again with big plans of dismantling Pakistan into pieces. They used terrorism (with the help of Indians as usual) even at much larger scale against the people of Pakistan. We were kept bleeding a good part of the subsequent two decades with tens of thousands of Pakistanis losing their life.

All these factors were not of our doing. How many wars were imposed on us by global powers (USSR, USA, etc.) and India on this poor country? We had a very soft border with Afghanistan with no border controls at almost the whole Pak-Afghan border with many Pakistani areas near it enjoying semi-autonomous status. All that was exploited by the enemies of Pakistan to turn FATA into the hub of terrorism for launching deadly terrorist attacks against the innocent people of Pakistan.

Yes, we have made so many mistakes but we have been struggling for our survival during all that time. We simply could not really focus of nation building process. We were able to make tanks, fighter planes, missiles, and nukes. But all that made us something even more hateful for the world powers. Remember, we were once a role model for third world countries in 1960s and delegations used to come to Pakistan from South Korea, China, and other countries for studying our economic development plans and strategy. It is believed that the world powers then realized the dangers of a strong, prosperous, and powerful Islamic country (created in the name of Islam) and decided to cut it down in late sixties and early seventies. Yes, our policy makers were/are short-sighted too but a systematic decay and erosion in our national independence is probably not merely of our own make.

The last five years have proved to be the most devastating for us. IK government took more loans than any single previous government. He ran the country on virtually a ponzi scheme (that is, borrowing more money to return the installments of previously borrowed money). IK had a chance due to Corona. So many export orders were diverted to Pakistan from India, Bangladesh, and other countries (where Corona took a large toll). It was the time we could reduce imports, promote exports, and return loans (or at least minimized the dependence on those loans). Unfortunately IK took more loans than in past. And then he virtually broke the agreement with IMF by foolishly and shamelessly turning rogue on the measures that he agreed with the IMF. We are currently paying the price of that stupidity. While I am sure we will weather it out successfully but the poor in Pakistan will be crushed in that process.

Show me the reference numbers for your claims. You're post means nothing otherwise.

Well we tried but then this country is like pre-historic ape-men killing each other. They kidnapped the Diaspora guys and beat them naked and made Porno movies out of them ! :lol: ... NA, WE WON'T BE COMING BACK TO THIS HELL-HOLE ANYMORE. HOPEFULLY THEY KILL EACH OTHER AND BE DONE WITH IT.

Exactly... I hope so too. These Pakistani are corrupt beyond imagination. Let them burn.... Maybe out of ashes they can start again
 
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do you get out much? or are you still living in the domain created by lumber one
Stupid comment. I dont hang out with Pakis suffering from inferiority complex. I will repeat it. I have never in my entire life met a Pakistani pretending to be Indian. Not even once. I dont know where you live exactly.
 
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How is any of the above any different than when AAZ was appointed the President of Pakistan in 2007 and when TTP terrorism was at its peak and our economy was what our economy is (i.e. not all that great)?

There is always a morning after the night.
gentlemen , at that time our external loan was only 45 billion dollars, now it crossed 125 billion dollars
 
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Lol talk about being melodramatic

Pakistan is the same it was 1 years ago, 5 years ago and 10 years ago.

People and institutions didn’t suddenly become corrupt because your favourite English cricket player is no longer in power lol. Ficking hell his govt literally caused PIA to be cancelled worldwide due to moronic remarks by a shitbag minister.

Pakistanis have always been corrupt and institutions have always been a failure.

The only thing that’s changed is after fighting American wars for pennies, Americans have stopped giving aid anymore and now the long lasting side effects of our stupid wars for America are catching up to us.

Imagine a different scenario for Pakistan. We never fight the Soviets for America, we never fight Afghans and tribals for America. We don’t have a single dictator and instead have democracy. What a different Pakistan that would have been.


Pakistan has always bounced back and seen positive growth near the end of a PM term before he was forcefully removed. 2017 was a good year for Pakistan before NS was removed. 2022 Pakistan was seeing stability before IK was removed.

I can’t believe I am saying this but if we let this clown show PDM government, Pakistan will bounce back again. But when there’s political instability and uncertainty, there will never be progress.

I finally understand why Islam is Khilafa(king) system and protests aren’t allowed in Islam. Because even if the leader is corrupt, if there is stability in the country, it still progresses
Where did you make that brilliant inference?
 
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Lol talk about being melodramatic

Pakistan is the same it was 1 years ago, 5 years ago and 10 years ago.

People and institutions didn’t suddenly become corrupt because your favourite English cricket player is no longer in power lol. Ficking hell his govt literally caused PIA to be cancelled worldwide due to moronic remarks by a shitbag minister.

Pakistanis have always been corrupt and institutions have always been a failure.

The only thing that’s changed is after fighting American wars for pennies, Americans have stopped giving aid anymore and now the long lasting side effects of our stupid wars for America are catching up to us.

Imagine a different scenario for Pakistan. We never fight the Soviets for America, we never fight Afghans and tribals for America. We don’t have a single dictator and instead have democracy. What a different Pakistan that would have been.


Pakistan has always bounced back and seen positive growth near the end of a PM term before he was forcefully removed. 2017 was a good year for Pakistan before NS was removed. 2022 Pakistan was seeing stability before IK was removed.

I can’t believe I am saying this but if we let this clown show PDM government, Pakistan will bounce back again. But when there’s political instability and uncertainty, there will never be progress.

I finally understand why Islam is Khilafa(king) system and protests aren’t allowed in Islam. Because even if the leader is corrupt, if there is stability in the country, it still progresses
On one hand you are dreaming of democracy and no dictatorships, on the other hand you're dreaming of Islamic Khilafas and no protests...

and simply "progresses" is not enough where you cant keep up even at a proportional level to the rest of the world, and actually most of our corruption has because causing us to regress if anything. Our instituions were slightly more powerful in the past post-independence and theres been a clear deterioration
 
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Lol talk about being melodramatic

Pakistan is the same it was 1 years ago, 5 years ago and 10 years ago.

People and institutions didn’t suddenly become corrupt because your favourite English cricket player is no longer in power lol. Ficking hell his govt literally caused PIA to be cancelled worldwide due to moronic remarks by a shitbag minister.

Pakistanis have always been corrupt and institutions have always been a failure.

The only thing that’s changed is after fighting American wars for pennies, Americans have stopped giving aid anymore and now the long lasting side effects of our stupid wars for America are catching up to us.

Imagine a different scenario for Pakistan. We never fight the Soviets for America, we never fight Afghans and tribals for America. We don’t have a single dictator and instead have democracy. What a different Pakistan that would have been.


Pakistan has always bounced back and seen positive growth near the end of a PM term before he was forcefully removed. 2017 was a good year for Pakistan before NS was removed. 2022 Pakistan was seeing stability before IK was removed.

I can’t believe I am saying this but if we let this clown show PDM government, Pakistan will bounce back again. But when there’s political instability and uncertainty, there will never be progress.

I finally understand why Islam is Khilafa(king) system and protests aren’t allowed in Islam. Because even if the leader is corrupt, if there is stability in the country, it still progresses
Except for the last part - You are actually so goddamn right even though youthiyas would laugh you off - but you are right

It's systems we should focus on, stability we should focus on, lack of millitary interference we should focus

I hate PDM but they're better than constant political instability, military's dumb policies
 
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Thumbs up!

See a problem, reflect! Get to the genesis of it...

So, let's delve a bit deeper. The problem is of a glass ceiling, a power vacuum and rule vicariously.
You have to understand the position of Jinnah, a good lawyer, he made a good case, excellent arguments... great! He got a verdict.
Two major Problems, one, he sought and remained within the existing paradigm, structural ceiling! Second, who was the protagonist, his client?
He didn't have his own constituency, but bigger problem was nor did the people he got the land for... get it?
That power vacuum had remained since the sikh rule... the remaining had already obliged the British. They owed their very existence to Brits...
That left only the instruments of colonization, the institutions British built to rule this land... of course the most powerful being the military. But let's get to that later... Indians, such as some brahmins and parsis who were running the British project for South Asia understood that much and made not only immediate structural changes to their advantage and took possession of as much land as possible.
Pakistan didn't! It couldn't! The military said NO!
It's institutions made sure it never left the clutches of it's masters... financial and political. It allowed for Soviet play in Afghanistan, it allowed Kashmir to sneek away.

That power vacuum, of local native polity and it's discourse never occurred. They never could got apprised to the tune of times. So, no one caught on the drift... and got carried away with the most powerful faction in town... it's sheriff! The military.
The political parties were the icing on the cake... they like in the rest of the world run on gimmickry, innuendo and pomp. People apparently like the theater.
The west for long had institutionalized the poor, the labor and the rich in a political framework.
And here in a nutshell, Pakistan like most of third world former colonies is in fact a client state.
Our past 75 years' history is a reflection of a fierce fight of a nation for its survival. We have been dealing with challenges since our birth as a independent nation in 1947. No doubt, we have made many mistakes (calling them blunders might be more appropriate) and as result we worsened our challenges. But all that mess that we find ourselves in is/was not the result of merely our mistakes. Briefly talking of our blunders, one can point at many factors (dominance of our political landscape by feudal lords, corrupt military leaders, linguistic fractures and under-currents, etc.) but, to my understanding, all those rogue factors can be described as a lack of nation-building process. We utterly failed in nation building especially during the extremely crucial first decade of our independence. Leaving all that on one side, what I want to emphasize here is that external factors too turned out extremely detrimental to the struggle for our national existence. For example, right after we got independence in 1947, Afghanistan, our western neighbor, waged a diplomatic war against us (on behalf of certain global/regional powers - namely USSR and India) besides trying active aggression against Pakistan on multiple occasions. But it didn't stop there. Afghanistan started acting as a spring board for launching insurgences (aka terrorism in current times) in KPK (then NWFP) and Balochistan by the hostile powers. Indians launched a similar separatist campaign in the former East Pakistan and finally broke it (with the active help of Soviets) to give birth to the current Bangladesh.

Post 1971, a new phase of global great game started appearing with the USSR defeating and actively chasing USA and Nato at many places (e.g. Eastern Europe, Africa, Middle East, Iran, etc.) while latter powers desperately retreated globally. The Soviets, after getting emboldened and enough confident by all their successful strategic advances, launched their most crucial aggression (i.e. the occupation of Afghanistan) in December 1979. That posed an existential threat to Pakistan. Of course, neither the people of Afghanistan nor Pakistan really invited Soviets in this region. It was a patient and very calculated move by the Soviets towards achieving their generational strategic goal of having an access to warm waters and control over the Strait of Hormuz.

Since Soviets had been using terrorism against (i.e. insurgencies in) Pakistan for long by then, they started hammering our country with frequent terrorist bombings, insurgent attacks, and diplomatic coarsening with much more intensity. That was , of course, not our choice. All that was imposed on us. Regardless, we stood up against Soviet aggression in Afghanistan or accepted it and tried to appease them, the writing was on the wall - the next logical target of Soviet invasion was Pakistan's Balochistan province. This nation chose to resist Soviet advance and fight against them in Afghanistan. Yes, this course of action brought the curse of narco and gun culture but that was the price that we had to pay for our national freedom.

Soviets left Afghanistan and, only less than two decades after that, Americans came in and occupied Afghanistan, again with big plans of dismantling Pakistan into pieces. They used terrorism (with the help of Indians as usual) even at much larger scale against the people of Pakistan. We were kept bleeding a good part of the subsequent two decades with tens of thousands of Pakistanis losing their life.

All these factors were not of our doing. How many wars were imposed on us by global powers (USSR, USA, etc.) and India on this poor country? We had a very soft border with Afghanistan with no border controls at almost the whole Pak-Afghan border with many Pakistani areas near it enjoying semi-autonomous status. All that was exploited by the enemies of Pakistan to turn FATA into the hub of terrorism for launching deadly terrorist attacks against the innocent people of Pakistan.

Yes, we have made so many mistakes but we have been struggling for our survival during all that time. We simply could not really focus of nation building process. We were able to make tanks, fighter planes, missiles, and nukes. But all that made us something even more hateful for the world powers. Remember, we were once a role model for third world countries in 1960s and delegations used to come to Pakistan from South Korea, China, and other countries for studying our economic development plans and strategy. It is believed that the world powers then realized the dangers of a strong, prosperous, and powerful Islamic country (created in the name of Islam) and decided to cut it down in late sixties and early seventies. Yes, our policy makers were/are short-sighted too but a systematic decay and erosion in our national independence is probably not merely of our own make.

The last five years have proved to be the most devastating for us. IK government took more loans than any single previous government. He ran the country on virtually a ponzi scheme (that is, borrowing more money to return the installments of previously borrowed money). IK had a chance due to Corona. So many export orders were diverted to Pakistan from India, Bangladesh, and other countries (where Corona took a large toll). It was the time we could reduce imports, promote exports, and return loans (or at least minimized the dependence on those loans). Unfortunately IK took more loans than in past. And then he virtually broke the agreement with IMF by foolishly and shamelessly turning rogue on the measures that he agreed with the IMF. We are currently paying the price of that stupidity. While I am sure we will weather it out successfully but the poor in Pakistan will be crushed in that process.
 
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Stupid comment. I dont hang out with Pakis suffering from inferiority complex. I will repeat it. I have never in my entire life met a Pakistani pretending to be Indian. Not even once. I dont know where you live exactly.
That comment is a hindutva disease implanted into the brains of indians.
Nowhere do Pakistanis pretend to be Indian or have ever taken thier identity.
When I was at school in the 90s British Pakistani/Kashmiris wore a badge of a Pakistani flag on thier school blazer.
Rather Pakistanis hated indians including indian muslims.
 
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