Bring Back The Khilafah (RAP)

[Kazhugu]

Caliphate will remain with the Quraish

Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 9.254 Narrated byIbn Umar
Allah's Apostle said, "This matter (caliphate) will remain with the Quraish even if only two of them were still existing."

so will it be the saudis ruling over the muslims, in case the caliphate comes ?

Dear friend you are wrong on so many levels. It was always religious until the hostile takeover by Yazid 1 then it became about securing wealth and preserving the bloodline of the house of Yazid (a monarchy basically).

i'm sorry..if the caliphate was a religious and not political entity then what was the need for so many bloody wars and political conquests during the rule of the "righteous" caliphs...why not spend time in meditating and praying...or is it that war is a part of religion as far as islam is concerned ?

 

[Mitro]

How do you see the acts of Arabs for not supporting the Ottomon Khalifa during first world war.

if we see this event in bigger picture then british played big role and by sending its spy lawrance of arabia who formed disparate Arab tribes into a singular fighting force that helped defeat the Turks.

many Arabs look back at Lawrence with disdain, feeling that he used them as a sacrifice on the altar of English hegemony. More to the point, he used Muslims to defeat Muslims, which eventually led to the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire in 1923. The English carved up the region, creating Iraq, taking over Palestine, and re-making the Middle East in their image, more or less.

 

[Kazhugu]

How do you see the acts of Arabs for not supporting the Ottomon Khalifa during first world war.

ironically it is these very arabs who are supposed to rule them according to the hadith....

many Arabs look back at Lawrence with disdain, feeling that he used them as a sacrifice on the altar of English hegemony.

bull ****....make one arab here in pdf say that backstabbing the ottoman "caliphate" was wrong....no...they dont feel bad for fighting for their independence against the ottomans....and moreover as far as i have observed the arabs here dont give a tuppence to these khilafa dreams....its only the people from south asia who keep bringing it..the arabs are more concerned about arab nationalism than anything else...

 

[notsuperstitious]

I would disagree. There was little 'discord' in the religion first.. the political aspect of it was the need for the leadership of Arab peninsula to be based on a member of the Quraysh as the Quraysh were still considered a house of leadership. Second, Abu Bakr was seen as closest to the prophet and his right hand.. and the best suited for acceptance by most of the Muslims.

The sword came in much later, when sections of false prophets started emerging along with breakaway sections which had 'entered' Islam and then judged that after the Prophet there would be no actual leadership to take over.

Today there exists both religious and political discord..
But the religious discord is more threatening than the political one as it threatens a belief system. If and only that is fixed can there be any wish to create a political unison and that too depends on the wishes of the people who have a religious caliphate to look up to.

But the Layla Bint Al Minhal case (among others) shows politics trumped religion even when things were supposedly righteous. The current proponents of khilafat accept that reality. What is needed is someone who can enforce the khilafat. Hence violence is ok too for them.

Kingmamba, khalid killing her husband and them marrying Layla Bint Al Minhal who was extremely beautiful the same night is against islamic laws. But khalifa looked the other way because he needed khalid. Its plain and simple.

 

[Mitro]

so will it be the saudis ruling over the muslims, in case the caliphate comes ?



saud ruling family is not quresh they are Najdi
the khalifa will be from quresh and he will be from prophet family.

 

[Kazhugu]

saud ruling family is not quresh they are Najdi

i did not mean the al-saud family....but some one from saudi arabia...if i am not mistaken the quraysh tribe is predominant in ksa...no ?

 

[Mitro]

i did not mean the al-saud family....but some one from saudi arabia...if i am not mistaken the quraysh tribe is predominant in ksa...no ?

You are right he will come from saudi kingdom

 

[Kazhugu]

You are right he will come from saudi kingdom

why is that...are the other 1.6 billion muslims considered incapable/incompetent or inferior to rule the caliphate..?

should nt the one with the most merit be elected caliph, even though he might be a converted muslim from latin america ?

 

[INDIC]

if we see this event in bigger picture then british played big role and by sending its spy lawrance of arabia who formed disparate Arab tribes into a singular fighting force that helped defeat the Turks.

many Arabs look back at Lawrence with disdain, feeling that he used them as a sacrifice on the altar of English hegemony. More to the point, he used Muslims to defeat Muslims, which eventually led to the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire in 1923. The English carved up the region, creating Iraq, taking over Palestine, and re-making the Middle East in their image, more or less.

Those Arabs surely know what they were doing. In our part of the world there was huge outrage over deposing Khalifa. Don't you think perception differs between our and their part of the world.

 

[Mitro]

why is that...are the other 1.6 billion muslims considered incapable/incompetent or inferior to rule the caliphate..?

should nt the one with the most merit be elected caliph, even though he might be a converted muslim from latin america ?

All muslim are same its a global community call ummah the khalifa will be chosen from almighty allah not by people .

 

[Mitro]

Those Arabs surely know what they were doing. In our part of the world there was huge outrage over deposing Khalifa. Don't you think perception differs between our and their part of the world.

At that time indian muslim scholar where very smart and the recognise th
e danger face by muslim ummah so they started educating the masses and because of their khilafat movement british was so affraid that they force attaturk to abolish the khalifa altogather they did not permit him to keep khalifa in ceremonial role like british monarchy.

Surely the arab who destroy the khalifa know what they are doing but majority arabs where against them.

 

[SQ8]

But the Layla Bint Al Minhal case (among others) shows politics trumped religion even when things were supposedly righteous. The current proponents of khilafat accept that reality. What is needed is someone who can enforce the khilafat. Hence violence is ok too for them.

Kingmamba, khalid killing her husband and them marrying Layla Bint Al Minhal who was extremely beautiful the same night is against islamic laws. But khalifa looked the other way because he needed khalid. Its plain and simple.

And here's the dilemma , does the caliph look into the greater good? What is needed?
Khalid bin waleed had done a wrong deed then..
But Khalid as a leader and asset was more valuable.
Do you overlook his past deeds?
The decision is highly disputed...
Some would support it in the light that Malik was known to be a hypocrite who had betrayed his religion.. thus automatically.. the laws of iddah did not apply to his wife..
In that case, his death was important as well since he would have been a thorn as an unknown anti-Caliphate factor.
I do not tread into the actions of the ten closest companions because I in my belief dare not ask those who know much more than me about the Prophet and religion.

I do however support the murder of Malik.. since it was necessary.. but reserve any comments on the actions of Khalid bin waleed.

 

[Pakistanisage]

But the Layla Bint Al Minhal case (among others) shows politics trumped religion even when things were supposedly righteous. The current proponents of khilafat accept that reality. What is needed is someone who can enforce the khilafat. Hence violence is ok too for them.

Kingmamba, khalid killing her husband and them marrying Layla Bint Al Minhal who was extremely beautiful the same night is against islamic laws. But khalifa looked the other way because he needed khalid. Its plain and simple.

Khalifa did not look the other way. Khalid bin Waleed was punished by the Khalifa Abu Bakr. Islam greatest General was demoted and made to serve under small time commanders. Khaled bin Waleed was Caliph Omar's cousin and yet that did not matter. After that incident Khalid Bin Waleed was never given command of Islamic forces again and he served as an ordinary fighter under other much junior commanders. Khalifa Abu Bakr also ordered Khalid bin Waleed to pay "Qasas" (Blood Money) to Malik ibn Nuwayra's family. After the demise of Khalifa Abu Bakr, Khalifa Omar Bin Khattab never forgave his cousin. Khalifa Omar Bin Khattab never allowed his cousin Khalid Bin Waleed to command the Islamic Forces again and Khalid Bin Waleed died a broken man.

You need to update your knowledge on this issue.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Khalifa did not look the other way. Khalid bin Waleed was punished by the Khalifa Abu Bakr. Islam greatest General was demoted and made to serve under small time commanders. Khaled bin Waleed was Caliph Omar's cousin and yet that did not matter. After that incident Khalid Bin Waleed was never given command of Islamic forces again and he served as an ordinary fighter under other much junior commanders. Khalifa Abu Bakr also ordered Khalid bin Waleed to pay "Qasas" (Blood Money) to Malik ibn Nuwayra's family. After the demise of Khalifa Abu Bakr, Khalifa Omar Bin Khattab never forgave his cousin. Khalifa Omar Bin Khattab never allowed his cousin Khalid Bin Waleed to command the Islamic Forces again and Khalid Bin Waleed died a broken man.

You need to update your knowledge on this issue.

You are confused. Abu Bakar did no such thing. Umar demoted him after he took over, that was years after the incident. Besides demotion itself is a non standard punishment which proves my point of politics trumping religion at all times. You guys glorify too much.

 

[humanfirst]

You are confused. Abu Bakar did no such thing. Umar demoted him after he took over, that was years after the incident. Besides demotion itself is a non standard punishment which proves my point of politics trumping religion at all times. You guys glorify too much.

There had been a steaming rivalry between Umer and khalid bin waleed much before those incidents..Many scolars attribute that as the reason for khalids demotion,not murder-whose punishment is not demotion..