Bajrang Dal terrorists attack Churches

[ngold]

Jana the heading of this thread tells a lot. When delhi was bombed you started thread Delhi Rocked.. and for Karnatakea incident your heading is Bajrang Dal Terrorist....

My question is that why didn't you put your heading for bombing Delhi like "SIMI Terrorsit bombed Delhi".. for Karnatake you have put Bajrang Dal..... It gives us enough signal about ur so called secularism..
So please stop talking about Secularism

 

[muse]

So if one is of a "secular" oulook, one has to sugar coat? AQ not terrorist anymore?

Are Bajrang Dal not hate mongering? Do they not incite? Do they not organize and participate in communal violence?

And if they are hate mongering, incitful and violent - why are they not terrorists and yet SIMI is??

 

[Flintlock]

So if one is of a "secular" oulook, one has to sugar coat? AQ not terrorist anymore?

Are Bajrang Dal not hate mongering? Do they not incite? Do they not organize and participate in communal violence?

And if they are hate mongering, incitful and violent - why are they not terrorists and yet SIMI is??

Erm....depends on how you define terrorism. Usually terrorism means insurgency and planting bombs. I'm not sure if that is what these people are upto.

As far as I know, this is plain vanilla communal violence.

 

[Vinod2070]

Last I checked, Islam allows conversions to its fold but condemns the person converting to other religions to death.

Don't people see some hypocrisy here. And then you come and tell Indians to allow conversions in India!

If the conversions are carried out by foul means and lead to social tension, we have every right to ban them. It is still not as hypocritical as people trying to convert others and murdering folks in their fold if they do likewise.

 

[muse]

Assasino

That's unworthy of you - you went for a cheap shot and failed to persuade.The questions are legitimate or they are not. If they are not legitimate, in other words, if they are not related to reality, please demonstrate. But if they are lets discuss them openly and honestly.

Vinod

You are wrong about Islam not allowing conversion - rather it is the understanding of some that advocate violence should someone exercise their conscience - And further it is condenmable that such ideas pervade.

However; Islam may be rotten, but does that mean Indian ideas ought to be as well??

Please, do not go defensive - it reeks of defeat and intellectual feebleness - present those ideas that can help those of us wh do not live in India how these ideas play out and how issues are packaged - and then ofcourse the ethics involved.

 

[Vinod2070]

Vinod

You are wrong about Islam not allowing conversion - rather it is the understanding of some that advocate violence should someone exercise their conscience - And further it is condenmable that such ideas pervade.

However; Islam may be rotten, but does that mean Indian ideas ought to be as well??

Please, do not go defensive - it reeks of defeat and intellectual feebleness - present those ideas that can help those of us wh do not live in India how these ideas play out and how issues are packaged - and then ofcourse the ethics involved.

Muse, I am not sure what are you finding defensive in my reply. I agree with you that ideally a person should be free to choose his faith. If in India it is giving rise to social tensions, it is obvious that this freedom becomes subservient to maintaining social harmony. I am sure you won't have it any other way, either in Pakistan or in India.

Indian constitution allows all religions the freedom to practice and preach their faith. This right comes with some duties. Those who seek only rights without fulfilling their duties can go take a hike.

I agree that we don't have to take inspiration from any rotten ideas be they Hindu, Islamic, Sikh or Christian. The protection of societal well being is tops. Any supposed rights are secondary.

But I do expect at least you to stand up and try to correct the issues within first than just point fingers at India. Though in general, I see your view point as a constructive one.

And obviously you don't expect me to believe that Islam does not condemn the "apostates" to death. Just google Islam + apostacy and you will get a million links proving otherwise. Again it is the practice we are talking about, not the theory. The theory is obviously interpreted differently by almost every other person. In theory Indian secularism is perfect or close to it. The practice leaves something to be desired.

 

[Goodperson]

why dont you go and read you will see the history of terror of RSS and Bajrang Dal.

These terrorists outfits had killed millions of Muslims during partion and they are still doing and now has resorted to killing of Christians too.

1) You change the title of the title post.
2) Now you equate to killing of Muslims in partition.
3) No one was killed in present riots.

This is not good journalism. I wonders why mods allow to change Title post to your sinister thoughts.

 

[muse]

Great post - - see, instead of silly one liners, readers can understand the anguish of having to make a terrible choice, to balance liberties and rights with social unrest.

You know sometimes social unrest is just what the doctor ordered. But ofcourse we must first acknowledge that all is not OK, that our reality and our ideals have a great distance between them - all nations, people and individuals deal with the same.

So wat is this that is not OK and how did we get here? Obviously this question has to be addressed - and if I may suggest jana hit the nail on the head -- And I would offer that Indians can learn from the experience of pakistan woth Islamists - it does not mater what you give them, what they want is everything -- look at what happened in Pakistan, they begin thinking like they are entitled.

And make no mistake, when you or anybody else begins giving away liberties and rights, exactly what is left except what social facists and the advocates of political violence want?

Yes, it's a awful choice, in Pakistan, martial law and military governance was resorted to, do you not see the danger of the same if these kindsof ideas are not arrested forcefully?

And do you not see how a segment of society will see it as unfair that if they should engage in the same they will be anti-state and terrorist while those who mirror the very same ideas except from another segment get state support?

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ Muse, no society is perfect. Human beings are imperfect and so are the societies they create.

One problem is that we all judge our societies by the highest ideals and others by their actions (more often the worst ones). We demand perfection from others while being deaf and blind to our own imperfections.

Now this doesn't mean that we don't criticize ourselves or others, but it does mean that before throwing stones at others we can look at our own sins first.

I feel that the Indian society despite its many imperfections is a great one. There is no example for thousands of miles around us of the tolerance and pluralism compared to India. We are a beacon of hope for the region in a sea of intolerance and fanaticism. We have been attacked for a thousand years by outsiders and suffered the terrible partition at the end of it.

Still within a decade or so we had a Muslim president!

The communal problem in India is not new. Its definitely not due to some inherent hatred on the part of Hindus only. There is a history to that. A terrible history! One that we can't forget in a hurry. Especially not when the same forces still harbor designs on our sacred soil and want to enslave the people as if it is their divine right. Listen to any idiotic Mullahs of your LET or JEM or your ex generals or even that newly minted bigot Zaid Hamid. To say that all this won't have a reaction would be living in a make believe world.

Yes, there are many Hindus now who have become as intolerant as the other side. Though they are not going out and bombing people in other countries in their markets and mosques. But in their thoughts they are as intolerant.

I see your point about Indian Muslims being in a peculiar situation. I don't agree that it gives them a right to blow up market places or trains in collaboration with the enemy. They need to work with the larger society to resolve the common issues. Any violence will only invite violence and the vicious cycle will continue.

 

[muse]

I see your point about Indian Muslims being in a peculiar situation. I don't agree that it gives them a right to blow up market places or trains in collaboration with the enemy. They need to work with the larger society to resolve the common issues. Any violence will only invite violence and the vicious cycle will continue

I don't think I said they have a right to do so - however; putting peoples in situation where they feel betrayed, well, it's not without consequence.

The point I was hoping you would see is that tackling groups such as Bajrang Dal is no favor to Muslims in Hindustan nor any favor to Pakistan - it is in the interest of that India you envision. If indeed India can be a tolerant society, it must first decide what it will not tolerate and I would suggest that the kinds of ideas represented by groups such as Bajrang Dal is itself a betrayal of the ideals you hope India is recognized for.

Invaded, partitioned, sure. It's history and indians must not imagine that they are alone in this, that would be a lie - but we have business to get on with and pitying ourselves and blaming others for what befalls us is unhelpful.

If Bajrang Dal are denounced unequivocally and the state's coersive organs unleashed against them, the india you envision will be easier to achieve, not more difficult.

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ Bajrang Dal is a pathetic group, mostly of unemployed youth. Their actions are to be condemned without reservation.

They have nothing better to do in life than harassing couple on Valentine day or indulging in some other mischievous activities. They don't represent the ideals of India in any way.

The peculiar situation of the Muslims is an unfortunate one. It is a result of the peculiar history of the region in the last decades of the Raj. The partition and the accompanying riots and the enmity with Pakistan has played a part in worsening the situation. The Muslims have as big a part in improving the situation as the majority community.

Both parties need to take bold steps to put the past behind, some grave mistakes of the past need to be reconciled and corrected. That would go a long way in the healing process.

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana the heading of this thread tells a lot. When delhi was bombed you started thread Delhi Rocked.. and for Karnatakea incident your heading is Bajrang Dal Terrorist....

My question is that why didn't you put your heading for bombing Delhi like "SIMI Terrorsit bombed Delhi".. for Karnatake you have put Bajrang Dal..... It gives us enough signal about ur so called secularism..
So please stop talking about Secularism

We dont claim to be secular in the first place.

Secondly you see i am not RAW or Indian who can predict exactly who is going to be behind the blast that is not yet occured.


As far as Bajrang Dal well please do not support these terrorists you also know that Bajrang Dal, RSS and Modi are terrorists responsible for killing of thousands of people.

 

[ngold]

We dont claim to be secular in the first place.

Secondly you see i am not RAW or Indian who can predict exactly who is going to be behind the blast that is not yet occured.


As far as Bajrang Dal well please do not support these terrorists you also know that Bajrang Dal, RSS and Modi are terrorists responsible for killing of thousands of people.

Jana if you are not Secular then you don't need to start talking about secularism.. what do you know about the pratices of secularism.. if you think that Modi is terrorist then tell me who made him Terrorist...You know the answer for that..

Bajrang dal is not a terror outfit... have youever heard name of Bajrang Dal in any terrorist activities like these so called mujahideen do..

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana if you are not Secular then you don't need to start talking about secularism.. what do you know about the pratices of secularism.. if you think that Modi is terrorist then tell me who made him Terrorist...You know the answer for that..

Bajrang dal is not a terror outfit... have youever heard name of Bajrang Dal in any terrorist activities like these so called mujahideen do..

In the same breath if India and indians are not practicing secularism then they
dont need to calim that they secular. Its the actions that count not the rehtoric.


And please do not start that fiction story that Godhra train was subjected to fire by Muslims.
This idiotic claim has already been proven wrong by your own Indians.

The forensic report had also confired that the train cuaght fire by carelessness of the Hindu yatris while poor Muslims in Gujrat bear the burnt.

So Modi love to be terrorists who is responsible for killing of hunderds of Indian Muslims.

its such a pitty You take credit for having more Muslim population than us and at the same time you are not ready to accept Muslims as Indians.


after 60 years of independence they still are aliens in India.

The day they are integrated trust me you guys are going to make more progress.

And on Bajrang Dal being a terrorist/extremist hindu organization well dear allow me to prove that in an entire thread as one or two posts are not sufice for that.

 

[dr.umer]

Bajrang dal is not a terror outfit... have youever heard name of Bajrang Dal in any terrorist activities like these so called mujahideen do..

Wake up.

Your own press have some different views regarding your Bajrang Dal.

"Secular India practices discriminatory justice for which only one explanation is possible: anti-Muslim bias. Why else are the Bajrang Dal and other Hindu extremist outfits not under the antiterrorism scanner? In the last two years activists of these outfits have literally been caught red-handed, holding or accidentally blown up by “Hindu bombs” in several towns of Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu, and MP. After the recent Kanpur blasts, add UP to the list. Why also the deafening silence of the state in response to Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray’s call for Hindu fidayeen (suicide bombers)? If this is not shameful double standard, what else is?" (Source)