Karataka: Bajrang Dal activists attack Christian prayer house, 7 injured

[janon]

Till Modi is free justice isn't served.

Till any charge against him is proved in a court of law, he is innocent.

Just because Pakistanis want to believe that there is an evil mass murderer in India doesn't make him any of that.

Everybody is innocent in India until proven guilty. In Modi's case, the allegations did not even stand scrutiny beyond the initial stage in any court.

Nobody will be punished because of what Pakistanis think about him.

 

[KRAIT]

Till Modi is free justice isn't served. Even Pakistani courts put such small less valuable culprits behind bars. Nothing new.

Just today Pakistani burned so many houses, and sectarian violence took much larger number of lives than gujarat, and you are lecturing us.

There are 75 convictions by court on Godhara issue. How many you jailed in past 10 years ?

 

[Areesh]

Just today Pakistani burned so many houses, and sectarian violence took much larger number of lives than gujarat, and you are lecturing us.

The thing is those guys are considered terrorists by the Pakistani state and the people and Malik Ishaq isn't going to become PM of Pakistan for sure unlike Modi.

Till any charge against him is proved in a court of law, he is innocent.

Just because Pakistanis want to believe that there is an evil mass murderer in India doesn't make him any of that.

Everybody is innocent in India until proven guilty. In Modi's case, the allegations did not even stand scrutiny beyond the initial stage in any court.

Nobody will be punished because of what Pakistanis think about him.

Huh. Instead of conviction, looks like he is going to be rewarded for his "good work". PM of India. That's what India is all about.

Typical Pakistani response . Get those guys behind jail then talk . Also talk when they are released . They won't be released before serving sentence . Meanwhile in Pakistan , House burners are posing for pictures . Long live the green lands of Al-Pakistan.

Look at the joy !!

I can also post pics from Bharat. The thing is you also have fair share of as$holes in your country too. And they are bound to grow considering the fact that more as$holes from BJP are going to come in power in the next elections as the surveys suggest.

Worry about your country instead of lecturing others about equality and secularism.

 

[KRAIT]

@Areesh Yeah we know who is President of Pakistan ? Who don't do a zilch to protect people even in a city.

 

[cloud]

spare me from yr hindu banya soach.

Tells the Madarssa Mullah..

 

[cloud]

\
I can also post pics from Bharat. The thing is you also have fair share of as$holes in your country too. And they are bound to grow considering the fact that more as$holes from BJP are going to come in power in the next elections as the surveys suggest.

Worry about your country instead of lecturing others about equality and secularism.

The difference is that you will posting the same pics already repeated thousand times over the net of the individual incidents off-course along with the your superduper Photoshop skill , and still be searching for hours for something new..

While -

We just have to goto same day's news items..

 

[janon]

Huh. Instead of conviction, looks like he is going to be rewarded for his "good work". PM of India. That's what India is all about.

That will depend on the will of the majority, as expressed in the 2014 elections. That is how people come to power in India. It may be a difficult concept for you to understand.

If you want my opinion of his electoral prospects at the center, it is very dim. Despite what you read on PDF, his importance outside of Gujarat is low, because each state in India has its own politics, dominated by state leaders, like mayawati or jayalalita or mulayam or mamata or omar Abdullah or mehbooba mufti or patnaik or achutanandan or.....

It is their intrigues that ultimately form a power sharing agreement at the center, and because modi is opposed by many in the BJP itself, and (this will come as a surprise to you) the rightwing, hindutva parent organization of the BJP (known as the RSS) hates him, he stands no serious chance of becoming the PM.

However, all those are political issues, which are irrelevant to the thread. If there is a single evidence against him, he would have been arrested long ago by the fiercely independent judiciary of India. As things stand, there was no merit in the allegations, and cases against modi did not proceed in any court. If anybody has any real evidence to back up the allegations, he or she is still free to approach any court in India.

I understand this desire of Pakistanis to WANT an indian villain to hate, to tell themselves that there is a muslim killing evil villain in India who is a hero to Indians and so on. I'm sorry that we cannot provide you with such a character in real, so you will just have to live with the imagined character that you believe. But just because you believe, doesn't mean that he can be punished.

 

[Cherokee]

The thing is those guys are considered terrorists by the Pakistani state and the people and Malik Ishaq isn't going to become PM of Pakistan for sure unlike Modi.



Huh. Instead of conviction, looks like he is going to be rewarded for his "good work". PM of India. That's what India is all about.



I can also post pics from Bharat. The thing is you also have fair share of as$holes in your country too. And they are bound to grow considering the fact that more as$holes from BJP are going to come in power in the next elections as the surveys suggest.

Worry about your country instead of lecturing others about equality and secularism.

Your Clock is stuck on Modi . Every post , every thread . I bet you even dream about him and he is the first thought when you wake up in the morning and you take his name before sleeping as well . I have no worries about my countries . Anybody breaking laws is incarcerated instead of being showered with flowers as it is done in Al-Pakistan[ ref:Flowers showered on Taseer's killer in court | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia]

 

[KS]

The conversions by the fringe non-denominational groups are upsetting the social balance in the coastal Karnataka region..

The govt must step in to crack on these foreign funded groups which create a flourishing ground for dumb groups like BD.

---

Plus, I cant help notice the irony..

Almost 200 Hindu homes were burnt and hundreds were made homeless by muslims in West Bengal..no media group carried a report and those who did carried reports like "one group" attacks "another group" without naming anyone.

But the moment some Hindu does something it all in gory details plastered over the front pages..

Bajrang Dal is shameful organization and should be banned ASAP. Sad to see something like this happen.

They attack people because of their faith, they attack people because they are too modern in their narrow minded and brainwashed minds.... always makes me furious when I realize how many backward morons roam around these days.

As long as groups like SDPI, CFI, PFI etc roam around with govt protection, groups like BD will be there..

Also unless the root cause of the issue,which is these non-denominational groups, spreading hatred against Hinduism is stopped, today it might be Bajrang Dal, tomorrow it might be Bheem Dal, day after tomorrow Bholenath Dal..Banning them without addressing the root issue wont solve a single thing..

 

[KS]

Why do we tolerate these primitive losers in our midst?

Coz when we tolerate and turn a blind eye to such primitive, obsessed-with-number loosers from other communities in the name of secularism, then it becomes very difficult to convince many Hindus too that groups like BD have no place amongst us.

Why do we tolerate these primitive losers in our midst? Both the bajrang dal and its parent organization, the vishwa hindu parishad don't have any place in the modern secular, liberal and tolerant India. .

In modern secular liberal India there is no place for foreign funded, fringe groups that go about denouncing HInduism too. Once we learn to treat all religions as same and not differentiate our responses based on minority-majority, then only these problems will stop.

Read this, the mangalore situation is more complex that you imagine and not a straightforward, "blame-the-BD" case. The fringe groups that are operating there with complete impunity are also to be blamed for their role in de-stabilising the social balance.

That being said, it is the role of the Govt to ensure such activities dont place and no repurcussions also take place..It is a failure of the BJP govt in Karnataka to crack down on these evangelist groups and on groups like SRS, BD etc..But the attitude of the secoolars and media when even a legitimate crackdown on these bogus orgs get portrayed as persecution of minority is not helping either. This basically ties one hand of the govt and in response groups like BD thrive in the resulting insecurity.

 

[janon]

In modern secular liberal India there is no place for foreign funded, fringe groups that go about denouncing HInduism too. Once we learn to treat all religions as same and not differentiate our responses based on minority-majority, then only these problems will stop.

Read this, the mangalore situation is more complex that you imagine and not a straightforward, "blame-the-BD" case. The fringe groups that are operating there with complete impunity are also to be blamed for their role in de-stabilising the social balance.

That being said, it is the role of the Govt to ensure such activities dont place and no repurcussions also take place..It is a failure of the BJP govt in Karnataka to crack down on these evangelist groups and on groups like SRS, BD etc..But the attitude of the secoolars and media when even a legitimate crackdown on these bogus orgs get portrayed as persecution of minority is not helping either. This basically ties one hand of the govt and in response groups like BD thrive in the resulting insecurity.

I already made my personal opinion clear earlier in this thread, about fringe groups. They all have a right to exist, as long as they don't carry out real crimes. Denouncing Hinduism or denouncing Christianity or Islam or any other religion should not be a crime, we do not have blasphemy laws, and should not have the concept at all. No idea is above criticism or denouncement, religious or otherwise. But beating up people is a crime.

Forceful conversions by churches (which @joekrish brought up earlier) is also a crime. These are crimes because there are victims, real flesh and blood victims. Victimless crimes are not crimes.

Yes, people of all religions should be treated the same, as you say. If it was a Christian group that attacked hindus, or muslims, or anybody else, they should be arrested. In this case it was the bajrang dal people who did it, which is why my ire was directed toward them. Everybody is equal in the eyes if the (Indian) law, especially for violent crimes, no matter which religion they belong to.

 

[KS]

This thread is about bajrang dal attacking people, and that is why my post was about bajrang dal, and similar groups that do similar things.

You cannot separate the causative factor from the symptoms.

In other words treating the symptom is only temporary while the focus needs to be on treating the root cause along with the symptoms. That is the long term solution.

 

[janon]

You cannot separate the causative factor from the symptoms.

In other words treating the symptom is only temporary while the focus needs to be on treating the root cause along with the symptoms. That is the long term solution.

That's sophistry.

The only legitimate cause in which a person can use violence is in self defence. If these people had reasons for doing what they did, and if it was because of some illegal acitivity by a church, then they should have taken recourse to the law. They should have gone to the police or law courts, not taken upon themselves to deliver justice.

Unless they were acting in self defence, they committed a crime, and they ought to be punished.

 

[KS]

I already made my personal opinion clear earlier in this thread, about fringe groups. They all have a right to exist, as long as they don't carry out real crimes. Denouncing Hinduism or denouncing Christianity or Islam or any other religion should not be a crime, we do not have blasphemy laws, and should not have the concept at all. No idea is above criticism or denouncement, religious or otherwise. But beating up people is a crime.

Forceful conversions by churches (which @joekrish brought up earlier) is also a crime. These are crimes because there are victims, real flesh and blood victims. Victimless crimes are not crimes.

Yes, people of all religions should be treated the same, as you say. If it was a Christian group that attacked hindus, or muslims, or anybody else, they should be arrested. In this case it was the bajrang dal people who did it, which is why my ire was directed toward them. Everybody is equal in the eyes if the (Indian) law, especially for violent crimes, no matter which religion they belong to.

Things are not that simple.

We have no first amendment in India where the difference between speech and physical violence is clearly demarcated.

In India the freedom of speech comes with reasonable clauses and not in an absolute way. Here burning a quran is not lawfully protected and you are liable to be met with harsh consequences both legally and personally.

But I figure that applies to well meaning criticism based on facts and that points out the social evils..For example attacking the caste system wont be considered as a criticism of Hinduism..but a fringe groups standing near a temple shouting "y'all pagans gonna end up in hell, y'all practise a demonic, satanic pagan cult" and propagating hate literature to the same extent cannot be equated with freedom of speech in India. In that case the line between words and actions get very blurred.

Moreover India has its own fragile social conditions and balance that is being upset by the rampant conversions and these are knee-jerk reactions to the same. As I said, unless we are willing to treat the root cause, there is no point trying to treat the symptoms only.

That's sophistry.

The only legitimate cause in which a person can use violence is in self defence. If these people had reasons for doing what they did, and if it was because of some illegal acitivity by a church, then they should have taken recourse to the law. They should have gone to the police or law courts, not taken upon themselves to deliver justice.

Unless they were acting in self defence, they committed a crime, and they ought to be punished.

I've clearly explained why the govt has its one hand tied when it comes to acting on the activities of these fringe evangelist groups.

Whatever steps the govt takes will be portrayed as persecution of minorities by a BJP govt by a section of intellectuals, media and political parties and hence the govt takes the safe route out by turning a blind eye..this inaction from the Govt leads to a counter-mobilisation from the majority community who try to redress the issue themselves..

It is clearly a fault of the Govt..but a fault that also has its origins in the hypocritical way "secularism" is used in India. If a Hindu cult goes near a church and starts abuse of Jesus or Mary, they will be behind bars in no time..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

@Areesh Yeah we know who is President of Pakistan ? Who don't do a zilch to protect people even in a city.

And mr modi as gujrat CM?