Baitullah Mehsud bites the dust, confirmed! :)

[PAFAce]

One either believes that all taliban are the same in belief and their intent upon the respective afghan and Pakistani populations or believe that there is a "good" and "bad" taliban.

The "good" taliban, operating in Afghanistan, are encouraged by their Pakistani supporters to inflict upon the afghan people that which isn't acceptable to be tossed upon the Pakistani people.

Two-faced and evil but...

...there it is.

Many here subscribe to this notion in an effort to achieve their narrow ambitions of dominating the afghan political scene with a player who will assure, FOREVER, that the pashtu rule over proceedings in Afghanistan to the benefit of Pakistan's geo-strategic ambitions.

Some here fervantly wish to believe that Pakistan even killed B.M. with their own drone. They know this can't be and that it was America. Their hatred of America, though, precludes the obvious despite the repeated statements by the GoP to cease these American strikes and transfer the technology to Pakistan.

How blind is that?

We would cease these operations and transfer the technology if we thought it might help. Sadly, we've no faith that you would use such technology to attack any of our enemies harbored on your lands like Omar, OBL, Zawahiri, Nazir, Bahadur, Haqqani Sr. & Jr., Hekmatyar, etc.

Nope. Further, we've little faith that such technologies ancillary to our UAVs which weaponize them wouldn't find their way to the PRC like our F-16s.

For these reasons, until you eject the "good" taliban and their associates from your lands, PREDATOR shall continue to do it's good work on behalf of the afghan people, our ISAF allies and ourselves.

We must protect the afghan people and ourselves from Pakistan's nefarious objectives.

Well, yes, there are delusional, two-faced Pakistanis, as is evident by the unfortunate posts by my countrymen. But, I refuse to believe the Americans are there simply doing "what is right". Do you really believe that the Americans are there simply for the good of the Afghan population? I mean, yes, Afghans have had some basic freedoms that they didn't have before, but that is more of a by-product of American intent rather than the goal itself. The goal, ostensibly, was to stop the terrorists from attacking foreign lands, and then eliminate them. Now, the goal conveniently changes from that to bringing freedom to the Afghan people. Seems to me you're just looking for a reason to prematurely hang the "Mission Accomplished" banner again.

See, your points above remain valid, Pakistanis have no right to enforce upon the Afghans what they believe is better for Pakistan. But, when the United States does the same to the Afghans, it's different?

Also, for many the concept of the good Taleban is the one you described. However, there are those who believe that the good Taleban exists on both sides of the border, and includes those people who would want to support the Taleban's struggle for Islamic law and the expulsion of the US from the region, but are against attacks on the Afghan and Pakistani population. Of course, this could be views as hypocritical, but it is still a more humane definition of the "good" Taleban.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Buddy your freakin' CIA cannot even piss right in that area if it is not for our Intel. So while your spooks may have the tech it is only by our humint on the ground that such a credible strike could take place. Minus our help, your jet jocks in Sunnyville would have knocked out another bunch of innocents and would have labled them as collateral damage.

So, BFD? Thanks for doing what you should have done eight years ago. You are agreeing that Pakistan DID need to DO MORE. When the ISI finally got off their a$$e$, some of the bad guys could be brought to room temperature, courtesy of the USA. You're welcome. Obviously, the PA didn't have the wherewithal to get him, even when the ISI knew where he was.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Congrats...Baitullah Mehsud is death.

But as long as his idea/philosophy of TTP is still relevant around NWFP more Baitullahs would take his place soon to see the battle goes on.

And one more thing, this incident should shut the mouths off those conspiracy theorists who thought CIA/RAW supported Baitullah Mehsud. If i'm not wrong drones attacks are solely controled by CIA.

Dawn News

Time to Stem the Rot

With Pakistan facing an existential threat it is time to look for the rot in our own ranks. The protégés we groomed for others have returned as mentors of our youth and as killing machines striking terror in the country’s towns and cities. Indoctrinated to ‘trap the bear’ in Afghanistan, they have, in fact, trapped Pakistan in a deadly bear hug.

Since the end of the Afghan war in 1989 when the Soviet forces left Afghanistan, Pakistan had been looking for strategic depth in the war-torn country. First a government of so-called Mujahideen was cobbled together in Peshawar. Although it held the reins of power in Kabul, it turned out to be more of a disaster than a unifying force for Afghanistan’s different ethnic groups. Divided on ethnic grounds, it was no wonder that Afghanistan once again became a turf for proxy wars. Iran, wary of the growing Wahabi/Salafi influence in its neighbourhood, rallied behind the non-Pakhtuns since the Saudi lobby had more influence with the dominant Pakhtuns comprising more than 40 per cent of the Afghan population.

India had been enjoying cordial relations with Afghanistan since 1947, but lost touch with Kabul when the PDPA (People’s Democratic Party of Afghanistan) government was toppled to be replaced by a motley set of warlords. The daily barrage of rockets by the Hekmatyar group reduced Kabul to rubble and caused ethnic divisions to be entrenched in Afghanistan which hitherto had been immune to such fissures. This strife caused more damage than the intrusion of the Soviets. Every neighbouring country bet on a separate faction to get a foothold in Afghanistan in order to compensate themselves for their ‘sacrifices’ since 1979. Pakistan was a major contender because it had hosted — and still hosts — the largest number of Afghan refugees. Pakistan was not only the staging post for the Afghan ‘jihad’; it was also the biggest centre of guerilla training.

And then came the Taliban, the root of all our militancy-related troubles today. Emerging in Kandahar they started their march on Kabul in the mid-1990s. One after the other province fell to the rag-tag forces of Mullah Omar bringing Iran and Pakistan face to face in Afghanistan: Pakistan supporting the Taliban, ethnic Pakhtuns with a hardline Sunni creed and Iran the Northern Alliance. But Iran’s involvement in Afghanistan was logistic, while Pakistan invested more in ideological and military aims than diplomatic or political.

This is the reason that today there is almost no fallout of the Afghan war in Iran whereas Pakistan continues to pay a heavy price for its strategic follies in the shape of Talibanisation. To deny a space to India in Afghanistan — a genuine worry — Pakistan aimed for a government in Kabul whose strings it could pull easily. Its forced U-turn since 9/11 and at least official abandonment of the obscurantist forces it helped nurture has not resolved the problem. After all, it is not easy to completely disown a force in which the country had invested heavily.

The general view today is this: while Pakistan now has to deal with its own version of the Taliban who declared a war on their own country to settle scores for their betrayal, Iran is facing no such problem. India, which had been all these years sitting on the fence, too, appears non-partisan. The Northern Alliance in its animosity with Pakistan came close to India which was looking for this opportunity. India reportedly opened a string of ‘consulates’ in areas close to the Durand Line, thus encircling Pakistan effectively.

The chickens have come home to roost. Right now Pakistan is facing a double jeopardy. It must tackle India’s growing influence in Afghanistan on the one hand — which it can do only through the Taliban — and counter spreading Talibanisation in its own territory, on the other. That is the reason why Pakistan is believed to have a soft corner for the Afghan Taliban and almost zero tolerance for the Taliban within. This has landed Pakistan in a catch-22 situation — it cannot eliminate the Taliban within without snapping their links with the Taliban across the border; while snapping ties with the Afghan Taliban will deprive Pakistan of a vital card for future use.

Growing Talibanisation inside the country is the blowback of using jihadi indoctrination for strategic goals. With strategic depth no longer anywhere in sight, Pakistan’s own social fabric is in tatters with extremists posing an existential threat to the country. Little did our policymakers know that their policies formulated so many years ago for a strategic objective could boomerang with such force.

Pakistan should reassess its Afghan policy and befriend the Afghan nation by joining hands with the Karzai government in fighting the scourge of extremism. Now that the Karzai government has offered talks, and even power-sharing, to those among Taliban ranks who renounce violence, Pakistan can extend a helping hand by facilitating this exercise. In fact, why should Pakistan not facilitate an intra-Afghan dialogue which will work in two ways: Pakistan will be seen in Afghanistan as a peace broker and at home it can easily drive a wedge between local and Afghan Taliban.

The time for ‘jihad’ is over in the unipolar world because jihadists have an unending agenda that does not confine itself to a single nation state. With one country under its sway it tries to spill over its boundaries in all directions, with the same country their first target. This is what has happened to us in Pakistan.

 

[PAFAce]

So, BFD? Thanks for doing what you should have done eight years ago. You are agreeing that Pakistan DID need to DO MORE. When the ISI finally got off their a$$e$, some of the bad guys could be brought to room temperature, courtesy of the USA. You're welcome. Obviously, the PA didn't have the wherewithal to get him, even when the ISI knew where he was.

It seems your goal in life is to enrage and inflame. But I'll stay civil. This kill, if it is confirmed, will be a triumph of US-Pakistani cooperation. It will be a great endorsement for good American intentions regarding Pakistan. I just hope that people like you don't end up turning this into an "uncle Sam saves the day" story and ruin this victory for everyone.

As for the kill, credit should be given where it is due. Congratulations to the American forces, it gives me hope that they might achieve what they came for nine years ago.

 

[S-2]

Prematurely?

After eight years and a U.N. mandate that specifies a stable Afghanistan this is hardly a paradigm shift.

Needless to say, a big hole in the ground in NYC is a daily reminder that we, too, can and HAVE been reached.

It's constantly on our minds. Sorry but it beez dat way.

As to bringing some hope to a hopeless land, we're doing the best we can. Not perfect, that's for sure, but if anybody else at any other time in history has done better by these people, please let THEM cast the first stone.

Until then, I think we fairly are targets for criticism of method but not intent. We mean well for the region. There's much to be gained by all interested parties from Afghanistan's economic development and political stability.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

USA will do all the hardship and will spend billions in Afghanistan but in the end Iran Russia and Indian will bare the fruits (USA will be bankrupt with in few years, already 1.3 trillion deficits). I watched a documentary on CNN in which Russian ambassador told the reporter during a party at Russian embassy that he is waiting for the day USA will be defeated out of Afghanistan.

A pro Iranian government in Afghanistan with Indian sponsored Infrastructure and blessing of Russia will be the future players in the oil rich central Asia and Afghanistan, what if Pakistan joins them along with China. A strong bond of neighborhood likes EU.

Pakistan has to change its pro USA policy and join hands with Iran so to make peace with northern Alliance and use China to come close to Russia and then Russia to make peace with India. Even after doing so much for USA, people like S-2 in US will continue to call Pakistanis as evil or two face.

India is our neighbor and so is Iran, if we can’t fight them in Afghanistan why not to join them. It’s a American saying “can’t fight them join them”.

 

[TruthSeeker]

It seems your goal in life is to enrage and inflame. But I'll stay civil.

PAFAce, if you will closely read my posts you will see that I do not initiate "flames". I merely respond to some of the flames that are initiated by others here at the PDF. If I responded to all the anti-USA flames that are posted by the various conspiracy theorists and irhabis here, I would have no other life. So, I must be selective. I only "enrage and inflame" when provoked. And, even then, only about 10% of the time.

 

[Developereo]

The "good" taliban, operating in Afghanistan, are encouraged by their Pakistani supporters to inflict upon the afghan people that which isn't acceptable to be tossed upon the Pakistani people.

The Taliban were intended, not to subdue the Afghan, but to counter the pro-Indian Northern Alliance.

But I agree that, once the Taliban turned feral and absorbed Al Qaeda extremism, we should have dumped them and found a democractic puppet of our own to counter the Indian controlled puppet-dorks Karzai and Abdullah Abdullah.

Ideally we should let the Afghans run their own country but we all know the Indians will not lay off Afghanistan. The Americans, either through naivete or deliberate complicity, have ignored the growing Indian control of Afghan politics. They believe that, once NATO leaves, Afghanistan will become a representative democracy and run its own politics. But, given Afghanistan's history and current political landscape, Pakistan cannot afford to be so sanguine.

 

[Awesome]

One either believes that all taliban are the same in belief and their intent upon the respective afghan and Pakistani populations or believe that there is a "good" and "bad" taliban.

The "good" taliban, operating in Afghanistan, are encouraged by their Pakistani supporters to inflict upon the afghan people that which isn't acceptable to be tossed upon the Pakistani people.

Two-faced and evil but...

...there it is.

That's crazy crackpot talk and you know it.

The Taliban are idiots who kill Afghanis in the process of fighting your illegal occupation of another country where the local populace wants you out... But thats got nothing to do with us. You guys kill Afghanis in your fight against the Taliban too.

What's the difference?

I don't know what makes you guys so upset that we don't care much about your fight in Afghanistan. You guys started that, it's yours to deal with. We need to get out of this fight, reclaiming our soil.

I quite frankly believe the best play in the upcoming Waziristan offensive would be to push everyone back into Afghanistan and let you guys deal with it.

Many here subscribe to this notion in an effort to achieve their narrow ambitions of dominating the afghan political scene with a player who will assure, FOREVER, that the pashtu rule over proceedings in Afghanistan to the benefit of Pakistan's geo-strategic ambitions.

The Pashtun are 60% of the populace. By democratic standards alone they are bound to stay in power. You guys stopped differentiating between the Pashtun and the Taliban years ago and you guys brought the local populace together with the Taliban. That headache got transferred to Pakistan too, where confusion set in that is the Taliban a Pashtun movement? It took years to fix that situation.

Some here fervantly wish to believe that Pakistan even killed B.M. with their own drone. They know this can't be and that it was America. Their hatred of America, though, precludes the obvious despite the repeated statements by the GoP to cease these American strikes and transfer the technology to Pakistan.

Oh c'mon thats just harmless speculation. You guys need to chill out about the thousands of opinions you read on an open forum.

BM was mainly pinned on India, not on the US. The US was criticized for turning a blind eye between the Indo-BM nexus.

We would cease these operations and transfer the technology if we thought it might help. Sadly, we've no faith that you would use such technology to attack any of our enemies harbored on your lands like Omar, OBL, Zawahiri, Nazir, Bahadur, Haqqani Sr. & Jr., Hekmatyar, etc.

Yeah not even an inkling of their existence on our land, after you guys have been claiming so since Tora Bora. With BM there were hits n misses, attempts. How many attempts have you made at these guys?

Dude, Afghanistan is where a band of merry men from Nato are in charge. At least in Pakistan the fight is contained. In Afghanistan you guys are contained to pockets!

They have to be idiots to choose a small Pakistani region as opposed to ALL of Afghanistan where they can get sanctuary. This accusation that they are in Pakistan is more of the same BS used to hide your failures in Afghanistan.

Nope. Further, we've little faith that such technologies ancillary to our UAVs which weaponize them wouldn't find their way to the PRC like our F-16s.

I for one don't like taking US weaponry. I remember the sanctions placed on those F-16s all too well. Can't be any prouder of whatever we did after you guys drew first blood with those sanctions.

For these reasons, until you eject the "good" taliban and their associates from your lands, PREDATOR shall continue to do it's good work on behalf of the afghan people, our ISAF allies and ourselves.

Bwhahaha @ on behalf of the Afghan people. Fake heroism, won't impress many around here. They HATE you man.

 

[Awesome]

Prematurely?

After eight years and a U.N. mandate that specifies a stable Afghanistan this is hardly a paradigm shift.

Needless to say, a big hole in the ground in NYC is a daily reminder that we, too, can and HAVE been reached.

It's constantly on our minds. Sorry but it beez dat way.

As to bringing some hope to a hopeless land, we're doing the best we can. Not perfect, that's for sure, but if anybody else at any other time in history has done better by these people, please let THEM cast the first stone.

Until then, I think we fairly are targets for criticism of method but not intent. We mean well for the region. There's much to be gained by all interested parties from Afghanistan's economic development and political stability.

You got the UN mandate on a tantrum. Boohoo, 911 happened, please give us mandate.

Try asking for it now. Heck you guys had to go against the UN mandate in Iraq! You didn't get the UN support two years later! You guys had pretty much failed two years into the fight. Now you're just cementing those failures

 

[Awesome]

PAFAce, if you will closely read my posts you will see that I do not initiate "flames". I merely respond to some of the flames that are initiated by others here at the PDF. If I responded to all the anti-USA flames that are posted by the various conspiracy theorists and irhabis here, I would have no other life. So, I must be selective. I only "enrage and inflame" when provoked. And, even then, only about 10% of the time.

You labeling every living, breathing opposition to your arguments as irhabi proves that you're trolling and fishing for provocative responses.

 

[Developereo]

Pakistan has to change its pro USA policy and join hands with Iran so to make peace with northern Alliance and use China to come close to Russia and then Russia to make peace with India. Even after doing so much for USA, people like S-2 in US will continue to call Pakistanis as evil or two face.

India is our neighbor and so is Iran, if we can’t fight them in Afghanistan why not to join them. It’s a American saying “can’t fight them join them”.

I agree with your sentiment. The US is so utterly and completely controlled by AIPAC (Israel lobby) that they will never, ever be our true friend.

But as long as our economy is on life support and we have to pass the begging bowl around the US Congress every few years, we will remain their slaves.

 

[Developereo]

Let's face it, the Americans are not going to leave Afghanistan any time soon.

It is in the perfect location -- right next to Iran, Pakistan, China and close enough to Russia.

The Central Asian Republics have been closing American bases at Russia's behest and Afghanistan is better located anyway.

 

[waraich66]

I agree with your sentiment. The US is so utterly and completely controlled by AIPAC (Israel lobby) that they will never, ever be our true friend.

But as long as our economy is on life support and we have to pass the begging bowl around the US Congress every few years, we will remain their slaves.

US is only supporting Pakistan because they need our help to fight talaban in Afghanistan , Israel is trying best to destroy iranian nukes and also wanted to destroy or control our nukes.

Afghanistan is just their base camp, real target is Pakistan and Iran.Same satuation Afghan talaban are fighting a war of Pakistan.

Russia,China,Iran and Pakistan dont want US long term presence of US in central asia (Afghanistan).

Uncle sam no nation like you because of your double face lol

 

[TruthSeeker]

You labeling every living, breathing opposition to your arguments as irhabi proves that you're trolling and fishing for provocative responses.

This statement is, if anything, the over-the-top trolling of which you are accusing me. It simply isn't true. It is a gross exaggeration. I only characterize posts as "irhabi" when they are. That is, if a true AK-47 toting irhabi deigned to join us here at the PDF, he would applaud the comments that I so characterize. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.