Army to analyse Tribunal verdict on Kargil war officer

[Skeptic]

recently your own COAS said that Pakistani army is cowerd which doesnt even dare to attack indian army unless its attacked first

You can gossip whatever suits your taste over a cuppa tea in your SMALL circle, but can you provide me a link to when this was said??

 

[moha199]

You can gossip whatever suits your taste over a cuppa tea in your SMALL circle, but can you provide me a link to when this was said??

tell me one thing that India has attacked Pakistan many times before or for the sake of yours ill say we have attacked India whatever suits you lol in response india came into Pakistani land and we went into yours but how come after kargil or on kargil Indian didnt even dare to attacka single land of Pakistan. Instead only tried to gain her own socalled land! do you have answer for that, come on Pakistan is on the weak ground! what stopped you in 2000 and 26/11? Forget my small circle lmfao but answer my these questions.! but please now give me answers with facts.

 

[Skeptic]

tell me one thing that India has attacked Pakistan many times before or for the sake of yours ill say we have attacked India whatever suits you lol in response india came into Pakistani land and we went into yours but how come after kargil or on kargil Indian didnt even dare to attacka single land of Pakistan. Instead only tried to gain her own socalled land! do you have answer for that, come on Pakistan is on the weak ground! what stopped you in 2000 and 26/11? Forget my small circle lmfao but answer my these questions.! but please now give me answers with facts.

We'll discuss that over another cuppa, I just asked you to furnish the links to back your statement:

recently your own COAS said that Pakistani army is cowerd which doesnt even dare to attack indian army unless its attacked first

Rest as i mentioned, I'll leave you with your gossips.

 

[moha199]

good then if you read my post it says I BELIEVE! so can't be said more clearly! my usual post are only for Pakistani members and indian members are welcome to read it but not try to rap the post as many do on this forum. lol now you have a cuppa tea or cuppa coffe or cuppa of any thing!

 

[sparklingway]

Agnostic:- Abbasi was not prosecuted for the Kargil affair, I guess you were referring to any instance of high ranking military officer being prosecuted. But Abbasi was set free days after Oct. 12, 1999 and today roams free on Tableeghi trips with Javed Nasir. Have you read about his earlier crime?

 

[anathema]

I dunno if the Brigadier has been done justice, but from the sounds of it, and the fiasco over the Ghazi and Longewalla, there is reason to suspect this revision is motivated by a need to exaggerate.

And there are enough independent accounts of Alam's feat (disregarding the time it took) to look at it as factual - there are no third party accounts to support anything the IA puts in its 'official history' on the Kargil conflict.

This reason to suspect of yours is purely a whimsical fantasy. Not sure what Army will achieve by revising after more than 10 years. If anything it has succeded in doing is - Opening up a can of worms in front of entire common public - Next thing everybody is talking is how unprofessional is Army top brass that it neglected a brigadier who served his duties to the best of abilities AND not about how many intruders where there.

And in betn i never heard about longewalla , what happened ?

And really third party verification of Alam's feat ? What third party ? Ohh you mean the pilots who flew with him ? OR the international reporters to whom Alam/PAF pilots told exactly what happened in the Air ? AM there is a reason to suspect that all the facts about the incident were narrated by Alam Or collegues on heresay to all the concerned third parties. Anyways similarly the case sinking of Ghazi can also be considered as third party verified since everybody in Naval brass has supported the IN sinking Ghazi theory and pakistan has nothing to suggest otherwise. Only rebuff was done by Lt Gen Jacob similarly Alam's myth was debunked by Haider.

 

[Skeptic]

Agnostic:- Abbasi was not prosecuted for the Kargil affair, I guess you were referring to any instance of high ranking military officer being prosecuted. But Abbasi was set free days after Oct. 12, 1999 and today roams free on Tableeghi trips with Javed Nasir. Have you read about his earlier crime?

BTW wiki link provided by Agno states that he died in July 2009?? He was tried for attempted coup and was released (applied to SC) in 1997. I dont know if both of you are talking of the same guy??

What earlier crimes??

 

[notsuperstitious]

watched their debate on CNN-IBN ...................only one paragraph is to be rewritten in official military history of Kargil war..............alone with performance of the brigadier

Damn, then whats the jumping around for? The lies, the twists and turns, the eventual admission and retreat, the unclaimed bodies and global humiliation still festers?

 

[sparklingway]

BTW wiki link provided by Agno states that he died in July 2009?? He was tried for attempted coup and was released (applied to SC) in 1997. I dont know if both of you are talking of the same guy??

Not sure about his death.

What earlier crimes??

Firstly, he was declared a persona non grata by the GoI after having been caught dealing with a suspected informant when posted as Defence Attache in Delhi.

Secondly, he in 1991 led a failed, disastrous and unofficial attempt to win some tactical advantage in the Siachen sector (Shuja Nawaz has made some errors in this regard in his book. He messed up the year and mentioned it as Kargil, not Siachen). I'll spare you the details but they weren't nice.

 

[KS]

W T F is this babbling about from indians, its your army men who made false stories about kargil war for promotions and fame and its your ppl who caught these rubbish acts, and finally its your Judges who said 15 Corps Commander falsified accounts of battles in the Batalik sector..

Go get some life folks, being big mouth won't hide your dirty faces..

Since u decided to jump the gravey train and prove ur worthiness here...let me put something for u..

If A general wanted to exxagerate his valour and get promotions he would have put 600 militants wen in reality he fought against only 45 ..
But the reality here is the IA fought against 600 militants in Kargil but the general had officilly recorded only 45 so as to cover up the intelligence failures.

Now truth is emerging about the true valor of the Indian Army.

Now still anybody doesnt undertsand this,,,PM me..i lll be more than happy to clarify u.

 

[WAQAS119]

Falsification only in as much as to who was commanding the units involved. It unfortunately is a case of someone trying to take credit when it was actually due to this Brigadier.

If falsification is proved that how can any body say that story told by other Army men is true. Surly this will benefit them.

BTW this is not the first time, it has been done many times before so credibility of all army folklores just goes crap.

 

[WAQAS119]

Not really. The only thing that is surely proved is that the Indian state does have some capacity for introspection, open debate and trying to absorb the lessons of the past.

Not to get into a d*ck measuring contest, but nations, armies and institutions that fail to do that will always blunder from error to catastrophe.

There are many internal critiques of the US Army performance in World War II. Does that negatively reflect on the US Army in any way?

Being only critical towards any Army is different thing and happen all over world including Pakistan but having proved the fabrication of history done by Indian Army or GoI many time, takes the matter to another level, where credibility is zero.

As far as US is concerned after their fabrication of evidence of WMDs in Iraq, no one take their point of view or evidence as true one, recent example is their claim that 'Usama is in Iran' everyone threw it in basket.

 

[WAQAS119]

Agnostic:- Abbasi was not prosecuted for the Kargil affair, I guess you were referring to any instance of high ranking military officer being prosecuted. But Abbasi was set free days after Oct. 12, 1999 and today roams free on Tableeghi trips with Javed Nasir. Have you read about his earlier crime?

you misunderstood his post! he was only giving prove that Pakistani Army Men are also get executed by their Army, as was demanded by an indian member. He was not pointing it towards Kargil issue.

to remind you, the execution of Abbasi was not for fabricating history....

 

[air marshal]

Indian commander distorts Kargil war account: Probe
Monitoring Desk

New Delhi—Raising serious questions about the military leadership in the 1999 Kargil war, the Indian Armed Forces Tribunal on Thursday has indicted a former Lieutenant General for showing bias towards a Brigadier playing down his achievements and for falsifying accounts of battles, NDTV report said.

The Tribunal, whose observation has come as an embarrassment to the Army, directed that the affected officer Brigadier Devinder Singh ((Retd) be considered for a notional promotion.

The matter came to light after Singh who led 70 Infantry Brigade in the Batalik sector in the Kargil war, filed a petition in the Delhi High Court complaining of wrong depiction of his battle performance. Several complaints similar to Singh are pending before the Tribunal.

The report of Lieutenant General Kishan Pal, then General Officer Commanding (GOC) 15 Corps, who oversaw operations in that sector not only cost him a war medal but also deprived the Brigadier of promotion as Major-General.

“I feel vindicated,” said a visibly happy Singh recounting his long battle with authorities.

“One has gone through a number of stages of non-statutory complaints, statutory complaints, legal notices and several writ petitions...Finally the order has seen the light of the day,” said Devinder Singh.

The Tribunal has asked the Army to consider Singh, a former 70 Infantry Brigade Commander, for promotion to the notional rank of major general and to put the relevant records and documents pertaining to operations by his formation in Batalik sector written by him to be corrected and put in the right perspective.

In its order, the Tribunal, headed by Justice A K Mathur, held that “the annual confidential reports (ACRs) were not written in an objective and unbiased manner” by Lieutenant General Kishan Pal.

Noting that the report of a person who writes the ACRs in a biased manner could not be allowed to sustain, it observed that the then GOC was not favourably motivated towards Brigadier Singh and had attempted to tailor the report belittling his achievements.

Indian commander distorts Kargil war account: Probe

 

[WAQAS119]

^ lol>>>>All you have given as evidence are home made PDF(portable document format) files.

But in this case your own courts/ army tribunal has given verdict that History has been falsified by Indian Army, can you deny it??? nops
though now they (IA) are twisting it again in their (IA) own way....
How can you prove me false on that........ !!
They have made a joke of themselves and now all Indian Army Folklores are not less than a joke.

As far as battle of Loungewala is concerned, your own Veteran Army men denied any such battle..... wana link.... take it

Battle of Longewala: Truth must be told

let me paste it again

Major General (retd), Atma Singh Hansara, told Hindustan Times in an interview, “I dispute the ground battle completely. It is mockery of army ethos. No ground battle was fought and the army had merely rehearsed it on a sand model after the ceasefire to cover up the incompetence of senior military commanders.”