Army to analyse Tribunal verdict on Kargil war officer

[Skeptic]

^ lol>>>>All you have given as evidence are home made PDF(portable document format) files.

Yes your calling them home made makes your image as delusional Pakistani fanboy living in denial absolute.

But in this case your own courts/ army tribunal has given verdict that History has been falsified by Indian Army, can you deny it??? nops
though now they (IA) are twisting it again in their (IA) own way....
How can you prove me false on that........ !!
They have made a joke of themselves and now all Indian Army Folklores are not less than a joke.

Cut down on Jingoism.

As far as battle of Loungewala is concerned, your own Veteran Army men denied any such battle..... wana link.... take it

Battle of Longewala: Truth must be told

let me paste it again

Major General (retd), Atma Singh Hansara, told Hindustan Times in an interview, “I dispute the ground battle completely. It is mockery of army ethos. No ground battle was fought and the army had merely rehearsed it on a sand model after the ceasefire to cover up the incompetence of senior military commanders.”

Since I am not to post any neew content, I'll just copy and paste responses from other people on this already discussed to death topic.

General Atma Singh was commenting not on Army Records but on a recreational and entertainment show done to recreate Battle on Longewalan.

If you want official History, here is the link: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/History/1971War/PDF/1971Chapter09.pdf

Does it suggest anywhere that the Indian Army company at Longewala destroyed the Pakistani tanks - it clearly mentions that IAF dest the tanks and full credit should go to the IAF. The only credit the Indian company gets is for "holding out tenaciously against heavy odds till reinforcements arrived". Which is exactly what happened. The company faced the prospect of being attacked by a full armoured regiment and getting massacred - But they didnt scatter, they didnt panic, they didnt run away. They held their post. There are NO claims of the company on ground inflicting casualities on the pakistani forces.

Here is what PDF Supermod had to say when he read the account (Since I am sure you are not gonna read it.:

Now back to the topic on hand:
It does appear that the historical record on the BR website does not indicate that IA had much to do with any fighting initially, in fact the first one or two pages of the incident are full of descriptions of IAF sorties and attacks.

Skeptic come on baby!!!! where are ya?

Look Behind you!!! SLAM

 

[Skeptic]

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Pakistan occupied Indian territory for two months thats good enough considering india is one of the largest military in the world.

 

[WAQAS119]

@Skeptic: Again you came up with some of the sh1ttest evidence!
Bharat Rakshak Forum
and some screen shots of home made documents..

I mean why you acting in this way? Like seriously! come up with some solid arguments and not with home made stuff..

BTW we are not discussing who won Loungewala Battle but discussing credibility of Indian Military records... in Loungewala indian air strikes caused our land forces to move back but your own Army record is very different.


According to Indian Army Folklore 100 odd soldiers and their steely resolve, which forced an entire Pakistani brigade, backed by an armoured regiment of 45 tanks, to retreat in the 1971 war.

some of your own war veterans have challenged this story after 37 years [proves credibility of IA]

Air marshal, MS Bawa, who was directly involved in the war, also agrees with Hansara. He says, “This is a challenge. There was no contact between the enemy and the army.”

Now yet another fabrication (Kargil) got busted>>> I mean your Military Record is full of fabrication and self made stories... Again I will say that you Indian Military Record has zero credibility....

 

[WAQAS119]

Let me give you an other example of Indian Army/GoI Fabrication of History:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/11962-fate-pns-ghazi.html


Indian Version...

While many think that PNS Gzahi kept Indian Navy at bay during the 71 war, the sub was actually sunk just before the war started on 3 Dec 1971.

The fact is that INS Rajput was not fully operational when the war was declared. It was running on one engine only. At that time, Lt-Cdr Inder Singh (now residing at Rohtak), who was commanding INS Rajput, was summoned by Vice-Admiral N. Krishnan, Commander-in-Chief, Eastern Naval Command, and told in no uncertain terms that his ship will act as decoy for INS Vikrant and that he was being sent to the sea on a suicide mission. Because INS Rajput acting as INS Vikrant will obviously be the target of the Pakistani submarine.

The Admiral also told him that he is unlikely to come back and bade him good-bye. Lt-Cdr Inder Singh is an upright person. He is very bold and courageous, devoted to his duty and committed to the cause. He told the Admiral that he will come back in flying colours. He was conscious and vigilant as he had the intelligence reports that the Pakistani submarine was around Visakhapatnam harbour. Immediately on leaving Visakhapatnam harbour, he noticed some disturbed waters and attacked the area with “Depth Charges”, resulting in the sinking of PNS Gazi.

For this act of valour, he was decorated with “Vir Chakra”. It was no fluke as the writer tries to depict. Let us give due credit to the killer of Pakistani submarine. Lt.-Cdr Inder Singh is now nicknamed as Gazi.

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Mailbag

Isn't this humorous and bollywoodish...........

 

[KS]

No it isnt bollywoodish or humorous....

PNS Ghazi still lies in the bottom of Vizag sea..is it bollywoodish..?

Actually if our submrine was hunted i would have rather preferred them to have a martyr's death of being killed by the enemy.

U guys are just lowering ur martyr's sacrifice by accrediting their death to their own incompetence (getting blowed by thier own mines) rather than being hunted down by Indian Navy.


And regarding Longewala....

Im asking for the umpteenth time.....Irrefutable and credible evidence..or else HISTORY STAYS..!!!!

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

No it isnt bollywoodish or humorous....

PNS Ghazi still lies in the bottom of Vizag sea..is it bollywoodish..?

Actually if our submrine was hunted i would have rather preferred them to have a martyr's death of being killed by the enemy.

U guys are just lowering ur martyr's sacrifice by accrediting their death to their own incompetence (getting blowed by thier own mines) rather than being hunted down by Indian Navy.


And regarding Longewala....

Im asking for the umpteenth time.....Irrefutable and credible evidence..or else HISTORY STAYS..!!!!

Cut the crap son..
Nobody is lowering the great mens statues..we arent even at such level nor be at the statues our martyrs have.
But thirdclass people in ur navy are trying to say they sank it?
While some honest god fearing people are saying it sank a day before the liar head of indian navy even knew about it?
Who burnt the evidence?
The witnesses of the blast say they heard a blast a night while ur navy ships were not even at the location...The confirmation was done after a day?
Wat do we call tht?
Pathetic liars?
Your army has a history and a problem of lyin and faking false encounters and getting awarded for them.
From destroying 100s of imaginery jets of PAF.
TO.....Faking encounter of siachin and kargil.

About longewala how do u except a few hundred men standing against tank bridages?
Just rubbish claims of dellusionl indian personel who like to lie and fool poor indian masses.

 

[WAQAS119]

And regarding Longewala....

Im asking for the umpteenth time.....Irrefutable and credible evidence..or else HISTORY STAYS..!!!!

Lol, read my above posts, as well as 2nd page of this thread, loads of them.

 

[KS]

Cut the crap son..
Nobody is lowering the great mens statues..we arent even at such level nor be at the statues our martyrs have.
But thirdclass people in ur navy are trying to say they sank it?
While some honest god fearing people are saying it sank a day before the liar head of indian navy even knew about it?
Who burnt the evidence?
The witnesses of the blast say they heard a blast a night while ur navy ships were not even at the location...The confirmation was done after a day?
Wat do we call tht?
Pathetic liars?
Your army has a history and a problem of lyin and faking false encounters and getting awarded for them.
From destroying 100s of imaginery jets of PAF.
TO.....Faking encounter of siachin and kargil.

About longewala how do u except a few hundred men standing against tank bridages?
Just rubbish claims of dellusionl indian personel who like to lie and fool poor indian masses.

U dont deserve to be answered.Period.

Lol, read my above posts, as well as 2nd page of this thread, loads of them.

lol i couldn find any links/sources except ur expert opinions.

Can u provide them once again for my benefit.?

 

[WAQAS119]

U dont deserve to be answered.Period.

or you don't have answer!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW what's your opinion on recent Indian Army busting....

 

[WAQAS119]

lol i couldn find any links/sources except ur expert opinions.

Can u provide them once again for my benefit.?

let me paste here!!!!!!!! This will be more suitable

Army faked battle of Laungewala’

The splendid victory achieved by our army in the battle of Laungewala during the 14-day 1971 India-Pakistan war was faked, a soldier awarded a military decoration in those operations has said. It was actually our air force that crushed the Pakistanis.

Major General Atma Singh (retd), who won the Vir Chakra for gallantry at Laungewala, told Hindustan Times that no ground battle was fought and the army had merely rehearsed it on a sand model after the ceasefire to cover up the incompetence of senior military commanders.

The army had last week presented Defence Minister AK Antony a blow-by-blow account of how Major KS Chandpuri (later brigadier) leading just 100 men had frustrated a formidable attack by a Pakistani brigade (some 2,800 troops) backed by an armoured regiment of 45 tanks. Chandpuri was given the Maha Vir Chakra. His alpha company (23 Punjab) won six gallantry awards. The army’s role in the battle had motivated generations and also inspired the Bollywood hit Border.

Atma Singh was then commanding the No 12 Air Observation Post (AOP) flight, tasked with directing close air support firepower towards enemy targets on the ground. “I dispute the ground battle completely. It is a mockery of army ethos,” he said. “We are teaching military history to future commanders citing battle accounts with no credibility. IAF’s Hunter fighters saved the day.” Atma Singh’s AOP flight of five Krishak light recce aircraft undertook 80 sorties and logged more than 110 flying hours.

Colonel PS Sangha (retd), who also served 12 AOP and was awarded a VrC, said Laungewala was an air force victory without doubt. Fighter pilots won eight Vir Chakras in that battle.

A senior officer in the army headquarters dismissed doubts on the army’s accomplishments in the battle.

The officer said: "It was a moment of glory. The combat ratio of 27:1 was in the enemy's favour. That's why we presented a simulated version of the action at Laungewala to the defence minister." Antony had dubbed it a "fascinating battle".

According to the army, Chandpuri's and his men -- equipped with recoilless guns, medium machine guns, 81 mm mortars and small arms -- had engaged enemy armour. Atma Singh refuted it. "There were no signs of ground battle. I was out there in no man's land after an emergency landing at the Laungewala helipad. The enemy suffered no casualty in men or material till a Hunter hit their first T-59 tank."

Chandpuri regretted that the army's role in the battle was being questioned. He said the contribution of ground troops was in no way inferior to the IAF. "The troops on the ground fought against the enemy. The IAF hardly faced any opposition. The air force operated freely as the enemy had not scrambled its fighters," he said.

The scary prospect of being overrun by the enemy had made Chandpuri's men slightly edgy. But the army says his high standards of leadership motivated his men to fight to finish.

Major General Ian Cardozo (retd), who has authored several books on military history, said, "Truth is the first casualty of war worldwide.

The fact is that the air force saved the day. But the army deserves credit for standing fast and holding the line despite overwhelming enemy forces."


?Army faked battle of Laungewala? - Hindustan Times

 

[Emperor Palpatine]

or you don't have answer!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW what's your opinion on recent Indian Army busting....

lol.....stop beating around the bush and read everything..and yeh...about Longewala a defamation case has been filed against the person who said that..

in short...Longewala really happened..

 

[WAQAS119]

lol.....stop beating around the bush and read everything..and yeh...about Longewala a defamation case has been filed against the person who said that..

in short...Longewala really happened..

launching a defamation case mean your Veteran Warriors are liar?

 

[Emperor Palpatine]

launching a defamation case mean your Veteran Warriors are liar?

Launching a defamation case means Longewala happened ..you would have known that if you bothered to reserach a little bit more about the issue rather than closing your eyes..

About who is right or wrong we will know after the case...Its a fact that the Airforce did not get as much credit as it should have in Longewala though the troops where present on the ground.. and also

Field Marshal R.M. Carver, the British Chief of the Imperial General Staff, visited Longewala a few weeks after the war to learn the details of the battle from Major Chandpuri

 

[WAQAS119]

Are you serious? I mean people who were in indian army at the time when Loungewala happened and were on duty in Loungewala are denying Loungewala Battle and you are proving them bloody liars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By that mentality! recent Indian Army Tribunal's decision is also a lie....

What will you say on that decision?