Army demanded in Karachi and Quetta.

[Icarus]

I think that is a sweeping generalization. A lot may just join the army as a career option. Although I wouldnt doubt their patriotism, its too idealistic to expect that they put their careers behind their patriotism. Just my opinion on it, not with reference to Pakistan, but in general.

BTW, a general question. Why is there violence in Karachi? Who is causing it and why?

In a country like the US or UK where the military struggles to find recruits, maybe, but in Pakistan where more than 120,000 people apply for a course of 400, the Army can choose to be picky. The nation's finest psychologists gauge the applicant's interest through a series of written tests and interviews and those who even hint of joining the Army as a career option are placed in the "Job Seeker" category. Hardly anyone makes it out of the category but once in a few years a candidate might show such aptitude that he is selected out of the "Job Seekers" category, but that is extremely rare.

Violence in Karachi is much like that in Mumbai during the 80s, it's an economic hub and political figures want to rule the roost there for which they take the help of organized crime syndicates.

 

[chauvunist]

I would love the Army action against these scumbags but considering the volatile mood of our people with today calling for army action,would be first one tomorrow to criticise Army for the same operation,So every step should be taken with great care....

 

[Last Hope]

Corruption is not a result of civilian control. Its a defect in the system. I am not asking you to take India's example, but the United States is a good example of civilian control. Where the army is deployed and for what purpose should always be a government decision. Secondly, it is not the army's job to "pressure" anybody to do the job. Its the civilian's duty. If someone is not doing his job, dont elect him. Lastly, again its not the army's job to undertake civil projects. Its the govt's job. Your govt should take control of all these things.

I will answer you shortly with complete details, in a separate thread.
The situation of Pakistan is way complex.

 

[pak-marine]

Sindh Govt should be open about why cant they use rangers instead , thousands of paramilitary troops deployed in Karachi what purpose do they serve ?? except for running marriage lawns , food streets , bakeries etc on public property.

 

[Jango]

Everybody remember that Nabeel Gabol said on a live show and then reiterated the same on twitter, that a military operation will be conducted in Karachi before the elections. He said the same to Hamid Mir on twitter.

Now my opinion is that it would be a wrong move, atleast right now. Karachi is a very difficult place to understand IMO. ANP, MQM, PPP, Taliban, local gangs all contribute to the mess, and with the political parties actively involved, there is alot of chance of the army getting into a bit of a prolonged fight. This isn't needed at our largest city, instead, what I would vote for is the Ranger/FC operation to take more effect with support from army. This way, the Rangers/FC will be the face of it, while added material and other support will be provided by army. If they need some specialized troop force, the army can provide then.

 

[Last Hope]

Everybody remember that Nabeel Gabol said on a live show and then reiterated the same on twitter, that a military operation will be conducted in Karachi before the elections. He said the same to Hamid Mir on twitter.

Now my opinion is that it would be a wrong move, atleast right now. Karachi is a very difficult place to understand IMO. ANP, MQM, PPP, Taliban, local gangs all contribute to the mess, and with the political parties actively involved, there is alot of chance of the army getting into a bit of a prolonged fight. This isn't needed at our largest city, instead, what I would vote for is the Ranger/FC operation to take more effect with support from army. This way, the Rangers/FC will be the face of it, while added material and other support will be provided by army. If they need some specialized troop force, the army can provide then.

There must be no operation until the elections, it would just aid the political parties, PPP mostly. After the elections, operation is vital. I still think there shall be conflicts, during the elections when the army is stationed in all voting booths. This will strongly effect MQM and they cannot tolerate army. During the last elections, my cousin in Karachi went to vote. INSIDE the booth, the people asked him to vote for MQM, and he asked 'why?', and he got to know why when there was a 9mm pistol on his head. With army in, 80%+ of the votes of MQM shall drop, which is intolerable, and expect something big.

 

[Jango]

Maybe a bit off topic, but related to Karachi nonetheless.

A friend went to Karachi a couple of days back. He is a Shi'ite. He was supposed to do some paperwork in Pakistan. But his family didn't let him out of the house in fear of him being killed. That is the state of minds of the people there, they are enveloped in fear.

There must be no operation until the elections, it would just aid the political parties, PPP mostly. After the elections, operation is vital. I still think there shall be conflicts, during the elections when the army is stationed in all voting booths. This will strongly effect MQM and they cannot tolerate army. During the last elections, my cousin in Karachi went to vote. INSIDE the booth, the people asked him to vote for MQM, and he asked 'why?', and he got to know why when there was a 9mm pistol on his head. With army in, 80%+ of the votes of MQM shall drop, which is intolerable, and expect something big.

The Election Commission did say yesterday that the voting lists and ballots and related paperwork will be transported under the supervision of the army, and the decision on army being stationed in polling stations will be taken shortly.

I agree with you that no operation should be taken before elections, some parties can use it to portray a 'mazloom' picture of themselves, like PPP after BB killing.

 

[Wickerman]

Check this out guys, its a pretty interesting travel documentary about violence in Karachi etc., Its in five parts. First part below:

 

[EyelessInGaza]

In a country like the US or UK where the military struggles to find recruits, maybe, but in Pakistan where more than 120,000 people apply for a course of 400, the Army can choose to be picky. The nation's finest psychologists gauge the applicant's interest through a series of written tests and interviews and those who even hint of joining the Army as a career option are placed in the "Job Seeker" category. Hardly anyone makes it out of the category but once in a few years a candidate might show such aptitude that he is selected out of the "Job Seekers" category, but that is extremely rare.

Violence in Karachi is much like that in Mumbai during the 80s, it's an economic hub and political figures want to rule the roost there for which they take the help of organized crime syndicates.

Interesting mention of PA's 'job seeker' list, thanks for the perspective.

This is off-topic, and on another note, but I do not think that your comparison of Mumbai to Karachi is justified. I have never visited Karachi, but from what I read of it, it is far far more violent than Mumbai at any time. There is one thing that has to be noted about Mumbai's organized crime - to the extent it was possible Mumbai crime syndicates always made it a point to never, ever impact the man on the street. When the common man got affected, everything would shut down, business would suffer, and the criminals would lose money. So they made sure the common man was insulated as much as possible.

So, the ordinary man or woman has almost always been able to walk the Mumbai streets in perfect safety. It was a semi-serious joke of the 80s and 90s that a woman could take the trains from Churchgate to Vashi at midnight, wearing the most expensive jewelry and no one would take a second look at her.

The shootouts, violent crimes - as and when they happened- almost never made a major impact (or even a sizeable impact) on Mumbai life. From what I understand of Karachi, the ordinary man can get robbed, mugged, kidnapped, shot at and murdered in the course of a day. To the best of my knowledge, this has never been the case in Mumbai.

 

[SamranAli]

much needed, just do it.

 

[Leader]

It's best the Army stays out of this mess. Our nation and their new found obsession with conspiracy theories will just cook up a new crackpot version of the events and post it on Facebook where thousands of pseudo-intellectuals will jerk off to the notion that the Army was deployed to Karachi to aid in American Naval Landings or some other bullshit like that.

In a nutshell, the Army should very politely turn this demand down and let the Police deal with it. No need risking men and material for a cause that will just earn them more critics.

I dont think so army can refuse legally, unless its autonomous body?

If America funds the army for operation, then do you think army would butt in ?

by the way, army should stay out of it, its already in trouble in many areas, opening up another front in this situation is not right, let the police deal with it.

 

[K-Xeroid]

The situation has been created by the people themselves, I am afraid for the military to now operate with full heart and conviction, they would want to see a genuine need for their presence, like in FATA.

Hmm.. I'm afraid that they cannot operate against political militancy, due to critics and reaction that they are going to face,

Then two options

1. oust the govt through vote if you are so fond of democracy.


2. first stop yupping to the tunes of vested interests against army only then demand its intervention.


you cant do both of the above so keep emotional blackmailing phrases like "army is scared of critics"

Democracy , Not fond of it, Never voted any corrupt.
Secondly, I'm a well-wisher of Pakistan army never intended to blackmail them, don't take it on negative way
Niether demanding any operation from army as it gon'na hurt only theirselves , but demanding the perminant solution on this issue, otherwise it could get more worst.

 

[Cheetah786]

political parties based on religion language color Banned completely until then Good luck.

 

[Leader]

Pakistani nation has lost it completely. As much as I hate to say it, but looks like we are waiting for our version of Halaku Khan to do what he did to Baghdad.

nothing is beyond negotiations, we dont need any halaku chalaku or dictator shiktator, we need right political elite to solve the problems...

P.S. Halaku khan was an invader, I think you meant to say Kheminie, all I can say is brother please, here we have moulana fazul rehman

 

[Cheetah786]

nothing is beyond negotiations, we dont need any halaku chalaku or dictator shiktator, we need right political elite to solve the problems...

P.S. Halaku khan was an invader, I think you meant to say Kheminie, all I can say is brother please, here we have moulana fazul rehman

You can only Negotiate with people that are willing to listen political parties with militant wings aren't their to negotiate.