Army demanded in Karachi and Quetta.

[Icarus]

and Wat If Para-military(Rangers) ,Police and Civil administration failed to control it? Yup U.S orders are required for that? Right?

Only in the crazy world where conspiracy theorists and guys high on acid live.

 

[Icarus]

Karachi is a living hell with people being terrorized by political parties. It's all politics that has ruined Karachi, once a peaceful and prospering city of lights. Quetta however, needs military action. The militants in Balochistan need to be taken care of, I get to see video footage and pictures daily of those men (BLA-BRA) killing innocent civilians (and military personnel) cold-blooded. When they kill the civilians, the video emerges as Pakistan Army killing innocent Balochis, but when they kill Army-men, the video emerges as freedom fighters or unknown people killing the Army-men.

Both Quetta's and Karachi's miscreants need to be engaged; however Quetta has no choice but Military operation and control (for while) while Karachi yet can be solved by Political negotiations. If the latter doesn't work, then operation is crucial. (However, don't forget here that the Political Militants are totally prepared for engaging on with Army, their arms include 14.5mm AA guns, armor-piercing bullets and over 50,000 RPG-7s. I would not be surprised to see any sort of Anti-Tank weapon.)

Yet our people are hell bent on down-playing the Baloch situation and throwing the blame on the Army, even idiots like Nawaz Sharif are calling for the FC to be withdrawn from Balochistan. There are two important points to consider in this regards:

1) The FC is composed mostly of locals who would have nowhere else to go.
2) FC is a stationary force that does not move from their AoR.
3) FC remains the last force that is stopping the 3 Waderas from carrying out a massacre of all Non-Baloch residents of the province.

 

[Rafael]

It's my personal view, It's not endorsed by the Military.

That is so because I feel our people are becoming more and more hostile towards the military to express their new found "Freedom of Thought" if nothing else. Yesterday I was disgusted to read comments by a guy on a Shaheed Captain's Facebook Page that he did not deserve to be remembered because he got paid to die by the GoP and instead people should pay attention to the civilians killed in Terrorism incidents.
Whereas my deepest sympathies lie with the Civilians killed in this conflict, I was disgusted to read that somebody can actually think that a 24 year old's life is worth 32,000 rupees a month. Do these people think that Soldiers do their job for measly pay and a nomadic lifestyle? Do they do it because they don't love their parents and would like to leave them without any security for their old age if he gets killed? Does he feel no affection for his wife and kids who he leaves for years? Does he not care for the joys of life as he spends his in isolated places where a man would wish for his enemy to go?
Anybody who joins the services, does it out of his commitment to the nation and respect of his own nation disowns him and refuses to grant him an ounce of respect, it would only take a fool to still risk his life on a daily basis for the same thankless lot.




The Rangers have deployed to Karachi but these guys were never trained for policing duties, they get harsh and people cry foul, they don't get harsh and people cry of complacency.

Pakistani nation has lost it completely. As much as I hate to say it, but looks like we are waiting for our version of Halaku Khan to do what he did to Baghdad.

 

[K-Xeroid]

It's my personal view, It's not endorsed by the Military.

That is so because I feel our people are becoming more and more hostile towards the military to express their new found "Freedom of Thought" if nothing else. Yesterday I was disgusted to read comments by a guy on a Shaheed Captain's Facebook Page that he did not deserve to be remembered because he got paid to die by the GoP and instead people should pay attention to the civilians killed in Terrorism incidents.
Whereas my deepest sympathies lie with the Civilians killed in this conflict, I was disgusted to read that somebody can actually think that a 24 year old's life is worth 32,000 rupees a month. Do these people think that Soldiers do their job for measly pay and a nomadic lifestyle? Do they do it because they don't love their parents and would like to leave them without any security for their old age if he gets killed? Does he feel no affection for his wife and kids who he leaves for years? Does he not care for the joys of life as he spends his in isolated places where a man would wish for his enemy to go?
Anybody who joins the services, does it out of his commitment to the nation and respect of his own nation disowns him and refuses to grant him an ounce of respect, it would only take a fool to still risk his life on a daily basis for the same thankless lot.




The Rangers have deployed to Karachi but these guys were never trained for policing duties, they get harsh and people cry foul, they don't get harsh and people cry of complacency.

Correct, but the question is who created that all atmosphere against army, did Taliban created that? or these civilians are totally manipulated by these political parties? I'm totally agreed that army don't have to involved in this mess, but wat if Karachi-ites decided to correct the situation by their own? will then army operate against citizens?

 

[Spring Onion]

and Wat If Para-military(Rangers) ,Police and Civil administration failed to control it? Yup U.S orders are required for that? Right?

Then two options

1. oust the govt through vote if you are so fond of democracy.


2. first stop yupping to the tunes of vested interests against army only then demand its intervention.


you cant do both of the above so keep emotional blackmailing phrases like "army is scared of critics"

 

[Last Hope]

Correct, but the question is who created that all atmosphere against army, did Taliban created that? or these civilians are totally manipulated by these political parties? I'm totally agreed that army don't have to involved in this mess, but wat if Karachi-ites decided to correct the situation by their own? will then army operate against citizens?

Taliban? No, they did not. I would openly blame the Political Parties (since we all know they're all corrupt and power-seekers, the only influence over them is the 'Danda' and they wish to break this 'Danda'.), the 'Azad Media' and other external elements (not naming anyone) who wish to create a gap between the citizens and army. (See the text in second quote here.)

 

[Icarus]

Correct, but the question is who created that all atmosphere against army, did Taliban created that? or these civilians are totally manipulated by these political parties? I'm totally agreed that army don't have to involved in this mess, but wat if Karachi-ites decided to correct the situation by their own? will then army operate against citizens?

The situation has been created by the people themselves, I am afraid for the military to now operate with full heart and conviction, they would want to see a genuine need for their presence, like in FATA.

 

[pak-marine]

Well ! Yup, It would be better if army don't interfere in Karachi's matters anymore as they let thousands people dead, Let Karachi burn for few more decades, until the half of its population migrates to other areas, Nice approach of MQM followers.

you are confused , read again i said najam sethi said , najam sethi works for geo news

 

[Wickerman]

Its job of civilian administeration NOT army. Law and order does not come under its domain neither responsibility. We should be thankful to them for doing job of the incompetent govt and civilian admins in some areas.

Exactly. Now, if only your army was UNDER civilian jurisdiction and was subject to civilian control just like in every other country, then an army deployment wont be controversial. After all the army's job is to ensure national security and deal with threats either external or internal.

Anybody who joins the services, does it out of his commitment to the nation and respect

I think that is a sweeping generalization. A lot may just join the army as a career option. Although I wouldnt doubt their patriotism, its too idealistic to expect that they put their careers behind their patriotism. Just my opinion on it, not with reference to Pakistan, but in general.

BTW, a general question. Why is there violence in Karachi? Who is causing it and why?

 

[Kashif.K]

This is a shame. Even the common police cannot handle the cities. The last option WOULD be to get the army involved. It seems there may be no other choice.

 

[Last Hope]

Exactly. Now, if only your army was UNDER civilian jurisdiction and was subject to civilian control just like in every other country, then an army deployment wont be controversial. After all the army's job is to ensure national security and deal with threats either external or internal.

And, they would be prone to increase in corruption and political use, this God forsaken burden on the head of politicians would lift off and not only the fact that THEY now control the army, but they can get relaxed and increase their dirty job out of fear. Plus, the Civil projects by army, especially FWO would be dropped and ATLEAST half of Pakistan would suffer directly for these projects being no more. Waziristan's development would then be bone dry. This is, however, not the topic so please let's not derail and waste another thread.

 

[Zarvan]

yeah right every one is a traitor when it comes to Taliban sympathizers and supporters

Even secular liberals know where Najam Sethi gets funds from who funds his visits to USA completely free visits

 

[SamantK]

Taliban? No, they did not. I would openly blame the Political Parties (since we all know they're all corrupt and power-seekers, the only influence over them is the 'Danda' and they wish to break this 'Danda'.), the 'Azad Media' and other external elements (not naming anyone) who wish to create a gap between the citizens and army. (See the text in second quote here.)

Your points are valid, however if the 'Danda' would have been under control of the govt., at least the honest ones would have worked for the benefit of Pakistan.

 

[Wickerman]

And, they would be prone to increase in corruption and political use, this God forsaken burden on the head of politicians would lift off and not only the fact that THEY now control the army, but they can get relaxed and increase their dirty job out of fear. Plus, the Civil projects by army, especially FWO would be dropped and ATLEAST half of Pakistan would suffer directly for these projects being no more. Waziristan's development would then be bone dry. This is, however, not the topic so please let's not derail and waste another thread.

Corruption is not a result of civilian control. Its a defect in the system. I am not asking you to take India's example, but the United States is a good example of civilian control. Where the army is deployed and for what purpose should always be a government decision. Secondly, it is not the army's job to "pressure" anybody to do the job. Its the civilian's duty. If someone is not doing his job, dont elect him. Lastly, again its not the army's job to undertake civil projects. Its the govt's job. Your govt should take control of all these things.

 

[pak-marine]