Anatolian Eagle' 19 - Thunder to roar in Turkey !

[zn426]

I think PIA's main strategy should be hub and spoke - making sure Pak is connected to the world outside meaningfully. This can easily be done by having low cost and frequent flights to Dubai / Istanbul / Qatar / Singapore. Particularly Dubai. If from Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi, Quetta and Peshawar you can get frequent low cost flights, Pakistan would become easily accessible to the world.

Instead PIA was trying to do a wunder trip direct to NY... cost it an arm and leg and lost out in the end anyways. Stupid is what stupid does.



Perhaps IK can propose a combined deal thus:

1. 8x Block 72 (to get the toe in the door)
2. 16x MLU
3. Permission to purchase (written not verbal) to purchase used F-16s from third countries
4. 6x C-130s second hand
5. Various other equipment

Together for a 3-4 billion dollar deal. Trump has a love of making big deals. It will be hard for him to say no to that, he is running the presidency like his tv show. He will have something to harp about "look I brought 3-4 billion dollars to America"

Speaking to the mood here in the US, Boeing is in deep trouble on the consumer market. Their 737 MAX series is going to stay grounded here for a while and now it looks like some of their older (and perceived more reliable) 737NGs have a problem with the wings that need to get fixed. Boeing is also facing workmanship concerns at their Charleston 787 plant (the New York Times reported a couple of months ago that their workers were leaving tools and equipment in the planes upon turnover to airlines, etc.). Most of their customers are refusing 787s if they aren't built in their original plant at Renton, Washington. A deal on 788s would certainly help Boeing right now, but IK and co should drive a hard bargain on the price.
As far as PIA is concerned my view is that they need to focus primarily on flights to the Persian Gulf, UK, and China. The gulf will have lots of people shuttling back and forth for short-haul business trips and leisure, the UK can be used for leisure and business travel, and China has a lot of potential with business travel that I doubt has been exploited yet.
New York is a little bit of a waste of time. You're having to compete with the ME3 on those routes, and PIA's quality is well below them. Now if the culture at PIA changes significantly, I could see them competing, but the ME3 will always be able to charge less on those routes. I would rather them use ISB or even LHR as an access to eco-tourism from Europe to northern Pakistan. Tanzania has done the same with KLM and similar to Kilimanjaro International. Using 787s in this scenario would make a lot more sense.

As far as the military deal goes, I'm not sold that Trump would make that deal. Pakistan doesn't have many friends in DC right now and there are those who would probably block it out of pure spite for Trump. It also shuts the door on India buying the F-21 because I think Modi would be rather outraged that the US allowed sales to their chief rival in the region. Unfortunately India carries more weight in world circles these days.

 

[baqai]

with the kind of governess being observed i wouldn't be surprised if they **** this up too, i saw an Aljazerah documentry on 787 Dreamliner and how its a disaster waiting to happen, do watch it

 

[mingle]

Speaking to the mood here in the US, Boeing is in deep trouble on the consumer market. Their 737 MAX series is going to stay grounded here for a while and now it looks like some of their older (and perceived more reliable) 737NGs have a problem with the wings that need to get fixed. Boeing is also facing workmanship concerns at their Charleston 787 plant (the New York Times reported a couple of months ago that their workers were leaving tools and equipment in the planes upon turnover to airlines, etc.). Most of their customers are refusing 787s if they aren't built in their original plant at Renton, Washington. A deal on 788s would certainly help Boeing right now, but IK and co should drive a hard bargain on the price.
As far as PIA is concerned my view is that they need to focus primarily on flights to the Persian Gulf, UK, and China. The gulf will have lots of people shuttling back and forth for short-haul business trips and leisure, the UK can be used for leisure and business travel, and China has a lot of potential with business travel that I doubt has been exploited yet.
New York is a little bit of a waste of time. You're having to compete with the ME3 on those routes, and PIA's quality is well below them. Now if the culture at PIA changes significantly, I could see them competing, but the ME3 will always be able to charge less on those routes. I would rather them use ISB or even LHR as an access to eco-tourism from Europe to northern Pakistan. Tanzania has done the same with KLM and similar to Kilimanjaro International. Using 787s in this scenario would make a lot more sense.

As far as the military deal goes, I'm not sold that Trump would make that deal. Pakistan doesn't have many friends in DC right now and there are those who would probably block it out of pure spite for Trump. It also shuts the door on India buying the F-21 because I think Modi would be rather outraged that the US allowed sales to their chief rival in the region. Unfortunately India carries more weight in world circles these days.

If india won't buy F21 what options LM has after morocco they don't have any order plant will close at NC. I believe india won't buy F21 America won't sell to Pak if india buy F21 which not happening so why they blk Pak its money I assure u it won't be less than 36 to 54 jetts which is good number gives life to F16 plant another 5yr lease. Let see if they want pak to buy Boeing they have to put sweetener in the shape of military hardware.

 

[Basel]

Problem is, most of these scenarios are played out with a fixed set of range for the missile. While, in reality, your missile's range is a complicated affair. The higher you are and the faster you are flying, the greater the range of the launched missile.

Now, imagine a scenario where an enemy fighter is flying at 50,000 feet and you are at 35,000. The enemy fighter goes for a sprint and reaches mach 2 while you are stuck at Mach 1.6. If we are considering equal BVRs, the enemy fighter will be able to get the first shot(s) and f-pole. You could get into his NEZ (no escape zone) while he simply escapes yours.

Now imagine this in grand scale of many BVRs, and the enemy having medium and heavy fighters, with large loads of BVRs at play.

Suddenly, the JFT doesn't seem that great anymore, and we are reminded of @MastanKhan who kept saying that the JFT should have been 20% more...

Here you can put J-10C and get the favorable results.

 

[Basel]

Chinese counterparts are not what PAF is enthusiastic about. We already use Y-8 and its a dreadful aircraft to fly.

If we really get desperate then I guess Russian Antonov series is what we can procure from Ukraine or Russia.

Ukraine and Russia have good birds, Pakistan should look in to An-70 with ToT for complete overhaul/rebuild.

http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/an_70.htm

 

[IceCold]

Eid Mubarak.

View attachment 563467

View attachment 563468

Khair Mubarak. Thunder among the big boys.

Just a noob question why are F-18s armed?

 

[MIRauf]

J-10C is great option if F-16 Block-52+ or better block doesn't materialize, PAF has the infrastructure in place for the F-16s similar is the case for C-130 and that is why PAF would like more of them. I think PAF will hold out till Y-30 goes in to production and it gets a chance to eval it. Y-20 is a beast that still lacks the engine it truly needs b, Y-20 thought could see future in PAF as Tanker / heavy transport in very small number ( 4 - 6 ).

 

[Tamiyah]

J-10C is great option if F-16 Block-52+ or better block doesn't materialize, PAF has the infrastructure in place for the F-16s similar is the case for C-130 and that is why PAF would like more of them. I think PAF will hold out till Y-30 goes in to production and it gets a chance to eval it. Y-20 is a beast that still lacks the engine it truly needs b, Y-20 thought could see future in PAF as Tanker / heavy transport in very small number ( 4 - 6 ).

Where will be the money come from BTW?

 

[MIRauf]

Tamiyah, that is a good question, it likely is going to be mostly loans, who will lend it is going to be a good question. Again, I would not be surprised that PIA portion to be funded by Commercial Banks and PAF portion by Arab Bank(s) / Country(ies).

Successor of Raheel Sharif will make things clear, will it be someone from Pak or elsewhere.

 

[maximuswarrior]

J-10C is great option if F-16 Block-52+ or better block doesn't materialize, PAF has the infrastructure in place for the F-16s similar is the case for C-130 and that is why PAF would like more of them. I think PAF will hold out till Y-30 goes in to production and it gets a chance to eval it. Y-20 is a beast that still lacks the engine it truly needs b, Y-20 thought could see future in PAF as Tanker / heavy transport in very small number ( 4 - 6 ).

Let’s be frank here. Pakistan isn’t going the F-16 route anymore. Especially now when it is going to induct the latest block of JF-17. Pakistan is pretty much content with whatever F-16s it has. They serve as force multipliers. They are a good addition, but not the mainstay. Besides, getting more F-16s would cost additional money. Something Pakistan needs to invest in ongoing projects i.e. 5th gen azm.

Secondly, US won’t sell its hardware to Pakistan. The relationship between US and Pakistan is minimal. The US doesn’t even have an ambassador in Pakistan. Surely US won’t anger its partner India.

For Pakistan this is a good development. It means that it can focus on developing its domestic base with the help of friendly allies such as China. Dependency on the US is not a positive thing for Pakistan. Pakistan has made considerable progress in self reliance since US departure.

 

[MIRauf]

Maximuswarrior, solid point on Pak needs, except US is the world leader in lots of thing but foremost the undisputed leader in weaponry. Pak can't go wrong with depending on US weapons.

 

[Ltanspotter]

A very interesting mix.

Indeed. I expecting also Saudi Arabia with their F-15's. Probably cancelled last minute. USAF did not came to Konya since 2015.

 

[Trailer23]

https://www.4aviation.nl/tours/tour-turkey-2019-2/

We have received good news! For the first time since 2016, the Turkish Air Force is once again organising spotters days for the beautiful Anatolian Eagle exercise at Konya airbase. And of course we are there.

Participants are (status at the end of May 2019):
Italy – 3 x AMX
Jordan – 3 x F-16
NATO – 1 x E-3
Pakistan – 6 x JF17
Qatar – 1 x C-17, 1 x C-130
Turkey – C-130, KC-135, E-7, F-4, F-16, CN235 and AS532 (many aircraft)
United States – 6 x F-15E

The spotter days will take place on Tuesday 25 and Wednesday 26 June 2019. As the tour is only in a few weeks, we will offer this trip only on a “Land-Only” basis. That means you have to buy your own ticket. But of course, we can offer support with that.

 

[Ltanspotter]

PAF IL-78 R11-004 spotted here, Konya today. Cargo arrivals has been started Any info for another arrivals for PAF ? JF-17 or another arrivals. I would like to catch it and take photos.

 

[hassan1]