America Is Winning The Arms Sales War With Russia And China For Indonesia

[striver44]

it is better for indonesia to avoid buying from u.s and focus on indigenous weapon development as they are not facing any immediate threat and have plenty of time for building own jets and equipment,they should establish agreement with nation which agree for technology transfer and I not think u.s will allow this unlike china and russia which can help in this

we are now building missile from the Transfer of technologies from China, and many more project.

 

[Beast]

it is better for indonesia to avoid buying from u.s and focus on indigenous weapon development as they are not facing any immediate threat and have plenty of time for building own jets and equipment,they should establish agreement with nation which agree for technology transfer and I not think u.s will allow this unlike china and russia which can help in this

True but its not so easy to build a complete system when national industries has not mature yet. Indonesia shall target European weapon supplier instead of relying on US. Russian product has no ties but their after sales support is very bad and usually overcharge for spare and repairs.

 

[IblinI]

No need for a troll feast, buyer decides what they want.

 

[Viet]

Indonesia recently backed out of two separate arms deals with both China and Russia, bowing to pressure from the Trump administration.

High-tech Barter Goods

In August of 2017, Indonesia announced a deal with the Russian Federation in which Indonesia would buy eleven advanced Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets for approximately $1.1 billion worth of goods. The unusual barter-system deal stipulated that Russia would buy items such as palm oil, rubber, furniture, tea and coffee, as well as spices.

Not long ago, the future of the deal, signed by former Indonesian Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu in 2018, appeared unclear, seemingly stuck in a sort of legal limbo.

The Trump administration apparently informed Jakarta that if the purchases went forward, Indonesia would be penalized under the CAATSA, or Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act.

The odd deal with Russia could have given the Russian state a small, but badly needed economic boost at a time when oil prices—a mainstay of the Russian oil-exporting economy—have suffered a hit due to a flood of cheap Saudi oil on the world market.
Additionally, Jakarta also backed out of a $200 billion deal with China to buy an unspecified number of naval patrol vessels.

Washington reportedly offered the latest and most advanced variant of the American F-16 fighter family, the F-16 Viper, in lieu of the Su-35s. Jakarta instead is attempting to procure the more advanced—and more expensive—F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

In private, some Indonesian government officials have outlined why the CAATSA was so effective—it would apply a number of different sanctions on both organizations and individuals who do business with Russian entities connected to either Russian defense or intelligence agencies.


These sections could be as simple as hampering the ability of individuals to travel, through visa restrictions, or as damaging as banning some financial transactions, or penalties against property and assets, which could have been quite damaging, especially in a time of increasing economic uncertainty due to the coronavirus pandemic.

Sticks and Carrot.
When dealing with its Chinese neighbor, a Russian vendor, and American priorities, Jakarta is balancing several interests against its own.

Indonesia’s decision to back out of two deals with Russia and China—both strategic adversaries of the United States—represent a triumph for the Trump administration, which has struggled recently in preventing both friends and allies from buying Russian and Chinese hardware.


Recently, the United Kingdom rejected an American push to exclude the Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei from any part of its 5G network, which is still in its infancy, opting instead to limit Huawei technology only in non-critical parts of the network.

Indonesian Communications Minister Johnny G. Plate has said the country would not exclude Huawei from its 5G networks, although Australia, a member of the Five Eyes intelligence sharing network, has said the decision could impact intelligence sharing between the two countries.

Report Advertisement
Caleb Larson is a Defense Writer with The National Interest. He holds a Master of Public Policy and covers U.S. and Russian security, European defense issues, and German politics and culture. This article first appeared last month.

„
Additionally, Jakarta also backed out of a $200 billion deal with China to buy an unspecified number of naval patrol vessels.“

$200 billion?

you want to start a war?

 

[striver44]

„
Additionally, Jakarta also backed out of a $200 billion deal with China to buy an unspecified number of naval patrol vessels.“

$200 billion?

you want to start a war?

i think its 200$million

 

[Viet]

i think its 200$million

Most likely
I mean patrol vessels don’t cost huge money.

 

[Raphael]

Fake news amateur military blog TNI is giving a very skewed picture. Indonesia's military imports from US have been trending downwards in recent years. 2019 was the first time that Indon imports from China exceeded those from US. But overall, it seems S. Korea is still Indonesia's preferred military supplier:

https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers

Washington reportedly offered the latest and most advanced variant of the American F-16 fighter family, the F-16 Viper, in lieu of the Su-35s. Jakarta instead is attempting to procure the more advanced—and more expensive—F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

This is most interesting bit. Will US offer F-35 to Indonesia? Rumor has it that US will only supply F-35 to their elite white and some yellow allies (e..g Japan), but don't trust dark-skinned buyers. That's why US is hesitating about F-35 sales to Turkey ― don't know whether they are white or brown, and hence eligible and trustworthy or not. It's a tough question and actual answer is likely somewhere in between.

 

[vi-va]

Fake news amateur military blog TNI is giving a very skewed picture. Indonesia's military imports from US have been trending downwards in recent years. 2019 was the first time that Indon imports from China exceeded those from US. But overall, it seems S. Korea is still Indonesia's preferred military supplier:

https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers

This is most interesting bit. Will US offer F-35 to Indonesia? Rumor has it that US will only supply F-35 to their elite white and some yellow allies (e..g Japan), but don't trust dark-skinned buyers. That's why US is hesitating about F-35 sales to Turkey ― don't know whether they are white or brown, and hence eligible and trustworthy or not. It's a tough question and actual answer is likely somewhere in between.

F-35, absolutely not possible. It's a good excuse for not buying F-16.
Indonesia: I want to buy jets.
US:I can sell F-16.
Indonesia: I want to buy Su-35 or J-10
US:F-16 or sanction
Indonesia: I want to buy F-35, do you trust us?
US:F-16.
Indonesia: F-35 if you trust us, otherwise I want to buy Su-35 or J-10
US:$hit.

 

[Nike]

it is true about the possibility of Indonesia to acquire F 35, price wise they are in the range table of F15 and Su 35. So why not to move up the ladder by acquire them, and there is plan to acquire AEW planes and other ground support system for F35 ecosystem.

 

[Daniel808]

US and Australia are happily breaking up the national unity of Indonesia and asking different parts of Indonesian to call for independent and you can even got the cheek to claim nothing wrong with that to be in bed with them?

@Daniel808 Take a good look at this traitors.

https://www.republika.co.id/berita/...-jk-admits-foreign-involvement-in-papua-riots

What you expect from people with inferior mentality like that

Proud of their country become american lap dog, even american ally like Singaporean or Australian will angry if this happen to their country.

Honestly, indonesian air force need a New Gen Heavy Fighter like Sukhoi SU-35BM, but change it with Medium Fighter like F-16 Those Singaporean and Aussie will happy to see that

The one that protest and concern so much when indo buy Heavy fighter with long range capability (year 2003 SU-27 deal) is Aussie, now they will sleep well.

Asking F-35 is only a WET Dream, American will not dare to ruin relations with their preffered Ally like, Aussie and Singaporean only for indonesia

„
Additionally, Jakarta also backed out of a $200 billion deal with China to buy an unspecified number of naval patrol vessels.“

$200 billion?

you want to start a war?

$200 billion deal with China is a fake news.
You can buy 100 Destroyer with that money, we don't have that

Fake news amateur military blog TNI is giving a very skewed picture. Indonesia's military imports from US have been trending downwards in recent years. 2019 was the first time that Indon imports from China exceeded those from US. But overall, it seems S. Korea is still Indonesia's preferred military supplier:

https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers

This is most interesting bit. Will US offer F-35 to Indonesia? Rumor has it that US will only supply F-35 to their elite white and some yellow allies (e..g Japan), but don't trust dark-skinned buyers. That's why US is hesitating about F-35 sales to Turkey ― don't know whether they are white or brown, and hence eligible and trustworthy or not. It's a tough question and actual answer is likely somewhere in between.

American want indonesian shelve their Sukhoi SU-35 BM Heavy Fighter with russian.
and change it with F-16 Medium Fighter

Change a heavy fighter with medium one
Maybe those aussie ask their american daddy to threaten that indonesian deal, because in 2003 when indo buy Heavy Fighter with long range capability (SU-27) Those aussie see indonesia air force with Heavy Fighter as a threat


About F-35 it's impossible. Yes, indonesian side ask for it.
But american will never let that, they will not ruin relations with their Premier ally like Aussie and Singaporean for sure.

Aussie and Singaporean see indonesian as one of their threat

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Also most eastern made bloc weapons are garbage compared to their western counterpart anyway that helps with the decision.

 

[Asian.Century]

What is GGP of Indonesia ? What are is most important products?

 

[Indos]

What is GGP of Indonesia ? What are is most important products?

Do you mean GDP ? It was 1.042 trillion dollar in 2018. With 5.04 percent economic growth it had in 2019 it should be around 1.150 trillion dollar in 2019. With this coronavirus outbreak, World Bank estimated Indonesia to grow about 2.4 % this year.

About most important product, I dont find any statistic of it, but I have a list of Indonesian export product, it maybe can help you to have some insight about Indonesia economy although most Indonesian products are consumed by its domestic market.

The following export product groups represent the highest dollar value in Indonesian global shipments during 2018. Also shown is the percentage share each export category represents in terms of overall exports from Indonesia.

1. Mineral fuels including oil: US$42 billion (23.3% of total exports)
2. Animal/vegetable fats, oils, waxes: $20.3 billion (11.3%)
3. Electrical machinery, equipment: $8.9 billion (4.9%)
4. Vehicles: $7.6 billion (4.2%)
5. Rubber, rubber articles: $6.4 billion (3.5%)
6. Machinery including computers: $5.9 billion (3.3%)
7. Iron, steel: $5.8 billion (3.2%)
8. Gems, precious metals: $5.6 billion (3.1%)
9. Ores, slag, ash: $5.3 billion (2.9%)
10. Footwear: $5.1 billion (2.8%)
    
    
    http://www.worldstopexports.com/indonesias-top-10-exports/

 

[Indos]

F-35, absolutely not possible. It's a good excuse for not buying F-16.
Indonesia: I want to buy jets.
US:I can sell F-16.
Indonesia: I want to buy Su-35 or J-10
US:F-16 or sanction
Indonesia: I want to buy F-35, do you trust us?
US:F-16.
Indonesia: F-35 if you trust us, otherwise I want to buy Su-35 or J-10
US:$hit.

It is between F 35 and SU 35 for the replacement of F 5 squadron. The number is between 12-16 planes. New Minister of Defense prefer F35 and he has already had talk with American Minister of Defense. There are only 2 options and Jokowi himself with his advisors will decide.

Acquisition of 32 F16 block 70 itself is for replacement of 32 Hawk 200/100. This acquisition is not as urgent as F 5 squadron replacement since our Hawk which have been delivered in 1998 can still operate until 2030. As Corona virus outbreak effect our economy and urgent acquisition for 2 heavy frigates, 3 submarines, 2 OPV for Navy besides tanker and AWACS planes for Air Force, I predict they are not going to buy this fighter until this administration ends in November 2024.

If Indonesia Korea KFX/IFX program renegotiation is completed with satisfactory result for both sides, I believe Indonesia will buy IFX fighter instead of F 16 after 2024 if KFX program is successful and can start mass production in 2026 as plan.

For SU35 or F35 acquisition for F5 replacement. I predict we will buy F35 for this 2020-2024 period but in order to keep balance with Russian and also due to the fact we have already signed contract for SU35 although not effective yet, S35 contract will not be cancelled but rather postpone for 2024-2039 period. Our Minister of Defense Deputy also said that SU 35 contracts is not cancelled but he said at the mean time it cannot become effective contract due to CATSA problem.

Anyway, we still need heavy fighter like Su 35 for long range attack and also it can perform sea target attack with Brahmost missile. As our future conflict may likely happen in the sea due to our sea border dispute, this fighters are still needed.

Possibility to acquire F35

Talking about the possibility to acquire F 35, I can say it is very possible. Any way, Indonesia has already had access with F35 technology with its participation in KFX/IFX program where Lockheed Martin is involved in the program as well and has given about 35 F35 critical technologies in KFX/IFX program.

Geopolitically, USA also see Indonesia as its important ally and it is proven on how US help Indonesia Central Bank with 60 billion dollar Repo facility deal that can make Indonesia use the money to stabilize Rupiah value if necessary. This deal itself has stabilized Rupiah last week even though we havent used it since Rupiah trading during any economic crisis is more caused by psychological reason then actual supply and demand in real sector.

we are now building missile from the Transfer of technologies from China, and many more project.

No they are no TOT for missile yet from China. It has promised to give TOT for C 705 missile during Susilo Yudhoyono administration but it turn out to be an empty promise.

 

[antonius123]

Also most eastern made bloc weapons are garbage compared to their western counterpart anyway that helps with the decision.

That has become myth now. Buyer can do testing on the weapon that they want to buy.

See how Turkey contest SAM (PAC, S-300, HQ-9) technically.