A Question for Pak Patriots: Why fight for Kashmir

[SkyWolf]

Before anyone goes ballistic, please hear me out. I am a patriotic Pakistani. I feel terrible about what is being done to Kashmiris by Indian brutal occupation.

That said, I would like to ask -- why should Pakistanis fight for Kashmir given the following situation:

1. Kashmiris prefer independence over Pakistan.
2. Sheikh Abdullah put in his fortunes with India.
3. 1965 war, Kashmiris did not provide much support.
4. Kashmiris seem unwilling or incapable of an Afghan, Vietnam type insurgency.
5. Even after India's annexation, I am hearing Kashmiris say we want freedom from Pakistan as well as India.
6. Kashmiris only want to use us to fight against India. The minute we liberate Kashmir, the Kashmiris will ask for Gilgit/Baltistan.
7. To retain the moral upper ground, we would have to give GB to an independent Kashmir
8. We did not get much rear support during the Kargil episode
9. Why should Pakistani mothers sacrifice their sons if Kashmirs don't appreciate Pakistan's sacrifices?
10. We could focus on our own development and avoid radicalization if we didn't have the Kashmiri issue.
11. Why fight for someone that has rejected us?

I am very happy to learn from folks here. Thanks.

Attn Bharatis: I don't want your input so don't bother responding.

 

[Zarmeena Rashad]

Before anyone goes ballistic, please hear me out. I am a patriotic Pakistani. I feel terrible about what is being done to Kashmiris by Indian brutal occupation.

That said, I would like to ask -- why should Pakistanis fight for Kashmir given the following situation:

1. Kashmiris prefer independence over Pakistan.
2. Sheikh Abdullah put in his fortunes with India.
3. 1965 war, Kashmiris did not provide much support.
4. Kashmiris seem unwilling or incapable of an Afghan, Vietnam type insurgency.
5. Even after India's annexation, I am hearing Kashmiris say we want freedom from Pakistan as well as India.
6. Kashmiris only want to use us to fight against India. The minute we liberate Kashmir, the Kashmiris will ask for Gilgit/Baltistan.
7. To retain the moral upper ground, we would have to give GB to an independent Kashmir
8. We did not get much rear support during the Kargil episode
9. Why should Pakistani mothers sacrifice their sons if Kashmirs don't appreciate Pakistan's sacrifices?
10. We could focus on our own development and avoid radicalization if we didn't have the Kashmiri issue.
11. Why fight for someone that has rejected us?

I am very happy to learn from folks here. Thanks.

Attn Bharatis: I don't want your input so don't bother responding.

For Allah, they are muslims and we have the means to help them out.Secondly as a muslim we are obligated to help the oppressed as commanded by Allah Allah subhanotallah.Everthing else is irrelevant.

 

[PakSword]

Before anyone goes ballistic, please hear me out. I am a patriotic Pakistani. I feel terrible about what is being done to Kashmiris by Indian brutal occupation.

That said, I would like to ask -- why should Pakistanis fight for Kashmir?

1. Kashmiris prefer independence over Pakistan.
2. Sheikh Abdullah put in his fortunes with India.
3. 1965 war, Kashmiris did not provide much support.
4. Kashmiris seem unwilling or incapable of an Afghan, Vietnam type insurgency.
5. Even after India's annexation, I am hearing Kashmiris say we want freedom from Pakistan as well as India.
6. Kashmiris only want to use us to fight against India. The minute we liberate Kashmir, the Kashmiris will ask for Gilgit/Baltistan.
7. To retain the moral upper ground, we would have to give GB to an independent Kashmir
8. We did not get much rear support during the Kargil episode
9. Why should Pakistani mothers sacrifice their sons if Kashmirs don't appreciate Pakistan's sacrifices?
10. We could focus on our own development and avoid radicalization if we didn't have the Kashmiri issue.
11. Why fight for someone that has rejected us?

I am very happy to learn from folks here. Thanks.

1. Fair enough.. it's their right and we want their freedom from Indian oppression. If they don't want to join Pakistan, we have no problem.
2. If someone has made a mistake in the past, but his children/ grand children are regretting his decision, then it is no more an excuse to not support Kashmiris. Besides that, one man can't decide the fate of millions of Kashmiris.
3. Again history... gone is gone.. we must look into the current affairs in Kashmir... They are being killed while holding our flag.. can we ignore them?
4. They are.. problem with them is that the occupying force is not coming from several thousands kilometers.. The occupying force is just next door and there is no shortage of supplies..
5. As I said, if they want, they should be allowed to live in a separate state.
6. This is your assumption.
7. Assumption.
8. We were not in the cities.. We were on top of mountains. What kind of support you were expecting from them?
9. Where are you getting this from that Kashmiris don't appreciate Pakistani efforts?
10. Simple.. They now hold our flag, and radicalization is not due to Kashmir.. it's due to Russian invasion of Afghanistan.
11. Assumption.

 

[Great Janjua]

Because wa islamah

 

[Dual Wielder]

I'm Kashmiri, but I'm Pakistani first, your obviously nit-picking, there are large number of people in Azad Kashmir who have joined the Pakistani army, and have fought along side with rest of their brothers from other provinces. You expect defenceless men, women and children to fight against armed apes?

Just because that dog Sheikh Abdullah sold out IOK, doesn't mean every Kashmiri is a traitor like him. And FYI you really think India will stop at Kashmir? they are going to divert the rivers, and make Pakistan dry as the thar desert, our survival depends on Kashmir, just like our founding father Jinnah said. Without Kashmir there is NO Pakistan period.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

1. Fair enough.. it's their right and we want their freedom from Indian oppression. If they don't want to join Pakistan, we have no problem.
2. If someone has made a mistake in the past, but his children/ grand children are regretting his decision, then it is no more an excuse to not support Kashmiris. Besides that, one man can't decide the fate of millions of Kashmiris.
3. Again history... gone is gone.. we must look into the current affairs in Kashmir... They are being killed while holding our flag.. can we ignore them?
4. They are.. problem with them is that the occupying force is not coming from several thousands kilometers.. The occupying force is just next door and there is no shortage of supplies..
5. As I said, if they want, they should be allowed to live in a separate state.
6. This is your assumption.
7. Assumption.
8. We were not in the cities.. We were on top of mountains. What kind of support you were expecting from them?
9. Where are you getting this from that Kashmiris don't appreciate Pakistani efforts?
10. Simple.. They now hold our flag, and radicalization is not due to Kashmir.. it's due to Russian invasion of Afghanistan.
11. Assumption.

You have even more patience than you have wisdom.

 

[SkyWolf]

Kashmir is the alter ego of Pakistan with respect to India...So if not Kashmir, Pakistan will find alternate reason to dominate India due to an belief that India was ruled by 1000 years Muslim rulers...:So they deserve to rule us in future too...

This is PRECISELY why I asked for no Bharati response. You provide zero value to most discussions other shooperpower 2020.

Kashmir is Pakistan's alter ego? What does that even mean?
Belief that India was ruled for 1000 years by Muslims? I am pretty sure that's a historical fact... and your lot says we are poorly educated. SHEW!

 

[pakistanitarzan]

Before anyone goes ballistic, please hear me out. I am a patriotic Pakistani. I feel terrible about what is being done to Kashmiris by Indian brutal occupation.

That said, I would like to ask -- why should Pakistanis fight for Kashmir given the following situation:

1. Kashmiris prefer independence over Pakistan.
2. Sheikh Abdullah put in his fortunes with India.
3. 1965 war, Kashmiris did not provide much support.
4. Kashmiris seem unwilling or incapable of an Afghan, Vietnam type insurgency.
5. Even after India's annexation, I am hearing Kashmiris say we want freedom from Pakistan as well as India.
6. Kashmiris only want to use us to fight against India. The minute we liberate Kashmir, the Kashmiris will ask for Gilgit/Baltistan.
7. To retain the moral upper ground, we would have to give GB to an independent Kashmir
8. We did not get much rear support during the Kargil episode
9. Why should Pakistani mothers sacrifice their sons if Kashmirs don't appreciate Pakistan's sacrifices?
10. We could focus on our own development and avoid radicalization if we didn't have the Kashmiri issue.
11. Why fight for someone that has rejected us?

I am very happy to learn from folks here. Thanks.

Attn Bharatis: I don't want your input so don't bother responding.

Besides the fact that we are muslim nation and should help our muslim brothers, you have a point. We we make loc int border now, we will
Keep more land as compared to kashmir becomming an independent country

 

[SkyWolf]

I'm Kashmiri, but I'm Pakistani first, your obviously nit-picking, there are large number of people in Azad Kashmir who have joined the Pakistani army, and have fought along side with rest of their brothers from other provinces. You expect defenceless men, women and children to pick up arms against armed apes?

Just because that dog Sheikh Abdullah sold out IOK, doesn't mean every Kashmiri is a traitor like him. And FYI you really think India will stop at Kashmir? they are going to divert the rivers, and make Pakistan dry as the thar desert, our survival depends on Kashmir, just like our founding father Jinnah said. Without Kashmir there is NO Pakistan period, if you feel this way, then cross the border and ask for Indian citizenship, because you already think like one.

Good point. The Bharatis fantasize about Azad Kashmir. They think because Maurya empire was here for 100 years out 10,000 -- it is part of some ancient country called "India".

 

[PakSword]

You have even more patience than you have wisdom.

Couldn't understand.. you are saying I have less wisdom?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Kashmir is the alter ego of Pakistan with respect to India...So if not Kashmir, Pakistan will find alternate reason to dominate India due to an belief that India was ruled by 1000 years Muslim rulers...:So they deserve to rule us in future too...

I wouldn't want to rule gangadesh if you paid me a million dollars a day. Hand over Kashmir and kindly build a massive wall between our nations. The mughals and British ultimately went mad trying to manage your lot. It ain't worth the effort. Look at the hoops Indian Muslims have to jump through just to be accepted in your country....bloody heck. No thanks.

 

[SkyWolf]

1. Fair enough.. it's their right and we want their freedom from Indian oppression. If they don't want to join Pakistan, we have no problem.

Good point.

2. If someone has made a mistake in the past, but his children/ grand children are regretting his decision, then it is no more an excuse to not support Kashmiris. Besides that, one man can't decide the fate of millions of Kashmiris.

Actually -- his son farooq then omar did not regret. i think they might be part of post-annexation setup as quislings.

3. Again history... gone is gone.. we must look into the current affairs in Kashmir... They are being killed while holding our flag.. can we ignore them?

Fair enough but we can't win without a local insurgency a la viet cong.

4. They are.. problem with them is that the occupying force is not coming from several thousands kilometers.. The occupying force is just next door and there is no shortage of supplies..

Very good point. The Soviets in Afghan had this advantage as well though.

5. As I said, if they want, they should be allowed to live in a separate state.
6. This is your assumption.
7. Assumption.

I don't have scientific data just some anecdotes on Facebook where I read some hurtful sentiments expressed by Kashmiris regarding Pakistan. That is why I am asking these questions.

8. We were not in the cities.. We were on top of mountains. What kind of support you were expecting from them?

A disruptive insurgency in the rear.

9. Where are you getting this from that Kashmiris don't appreciate Pakistani efforts?

Anecdotal. Facebook.

10. Simple.. They now hold our flag, and radicalization is not due to Kashmir.. it's due to Russian invasion of Afghanistan.

True. But we may radicalize now because the anger is palatable. Bharatis doing dirty deeds in the valley

11. Assumption.

 

[313ghazi]

Before anyone goes ballistic, please hear me out. I am a patriotic Pakistani. I feel terrible about what is being done to Kashmiris by Indian brutal occupation.

That said, I would like to ask -- why should Pakistanis fight for Kashmir given the following situation:

1. Kashmiris prefer independence over Pakistan.
2. Sheikh Abdullah put in his fortunes with India.
3. 1965 war, Kashmiris did not provide much support.
4. Kashmiris seem unwilling or incapable of an Afghan, Vietnam type insurgency.
5. Even after India's annexation, I am hearing Kashmiris say we want freedom from Pakistan as well as India.
6. Kashmiris only want to use us to fight against India. The minute we liberate Kashmir, the Kashmiris will ask for Gilgit/Baltistan.
7. To retain the moral upper ground, we would have to give GB to an independent Kashmir
8. We did not get much rear support during the Kargil episode
9. Why should Pakistani mothers sacrifice their sons if Kashmirs don't appreciate Pakistan's sacrifices?
10. We could focus on our own development and avoid radicalization if we didn't have the Kashmiri issue.
11. Why fight for someone that has rejected us?

I am very happy to learn from folks here. Thanks.

Attn Bharatis: I don't want your input so don't bother responding.

1. That's your assumption based on no real data. The millions marching in Kashmir wave Pakistani flags, celebrate Pakistani cricket wins, Bury thier dead in Pakistani flags. I'm from AJK and 99% of people I know consider themselves Pakistani.

2. Abdullah and his ilk are as representative of Kashmir as Zardari and Nawaz are of Pakistan. Are they the true face of your nation? In the last election in Kashmir the turnout was less than 3%. What was the turnout for Zardari govt or Nawaz Sharif govt?

3. What obligations do unarmed civilians have to support the army? Pakistans army has fought terrorists in FATA, Swat, Balochistan, even in Karachi - how many civilians were required to support them? What material support did you provide? You are after all a patriot. Do those in Lahore or Karachi or Peshawar have more Haq upon the services of Pak Fauj than those in Mirpur, Kotli, Srinagar or Kargil? Are we not equally Pakistani? Does Pakistan not consider the territory we reside in as its own? Check your maps.

4. Kashmiris have been fighting for freedom since the time of Dogra. His armies even took away farming tools to disarm us. Read about the azaan completed by 22 people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1931_Kashmir_agitation

Kashmiris fought India militarily since the 80s. Pervez Musharaf betrayed us and rolled back military support for freedom fighters. The kids dying fighting today are ill equipped. Read the statements of Riaz Naikoo, how they don't have enough guns or bullets to defend themselves in engagements. Our boys are dying because thier clips are empty. They're fighting armies with pistols.

The rest of your points aren't even worth addressing. You rattle off your own opinions and insecurities.

Kashmir or no Kashmir in this world there will be either India or Pakistan - both cannot co-exist. The Hinduvta have seen to that. They control India and will continue to do so for decades to come. You can hide, but they're coming for you anyway.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Couldn't understand.. you are saying I have less wisdom?

No sir! I am praising you for both your wisdom and your patience. Your responses are all spot on. But to take the effort and time to respond to this rather testing thread at all requires supreme patience.

 

[1Paki$tani]

Kashmir is the alter ego of Pakistan with respect to India...So if not Kashmir, Pakistan will find alternate reason to dominate India due to an belief that India was ruled by 1000 years Muslim rulers...:So they deserve to rule us in future too...

Or that Indians cannot forget this and once dreamt of ruling Muslims after the british left, but that dream did not come true entirely hence their complex.

Should I post general bakshi ranting about 1000 year rule.