8th anniversary of Gujarat genocide. Never forget

[tadka]

I never pretended that Pakistan is a perfect model country.... I would be the last one to do so.. Why you keep on pointing at me? I will be the first one to admit that there is some discrimination against minorities in Pakistan.. But I dont remember any other incident except 1971... where we killed 10,000 Sikhs (1984), 5000 Muslims during Gujarat, 5000 more during Babri Mosque incident and 30,000 Kashmiris (as reported by Times Magazine)..

the numbers you are quoting is bs. In guj a few hundreds also a few hundred Hindus were klled. It was riots unlike your country which has a law to discrinate Hindus. It was not done b govt. After bahri also there was riots stasrted by Pakistani dawood Ibrahim. Also there only few hundred muslimes and a few hundred h dus died. In Sikh riots I do t know nmbers of top of my head but it not 10000. Some one pls research for me.
so pls don't spread hate mongerng comments. That's y I sad you should join ur govt

 

[jinxeD_girl]

the numbers you are quoting is bs. In guj a few hundreds also a few hundred Hindus were klled. It was riots unlike your country which has a law to discrinate Hindus. It was not done b govt. After bahri also there was riots stasrted by Pakistani dawood Ibrahim. Also there only few hundred muslimes and a few hundred h dus died. In Sikh riots I do t know nmbers of top of my head but it not 10000. Some one pls research for me.
so pls don't spread hate mongerng comments. That's y I sad you should join ur govt

Ok I admit.. I am not sure about the numbers... but here are the estimates :-

Gujarat Riots

According to an official estimate, 1044 people were killed in the violence - 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus including those killed in the Godhra train fire. Another 223 people were reported missing, 2,548 injured, 919 women widowed and 606 children orphaned.[30]

Unofficial estimates put the death toll closer to 2000, with Muslims forming a high proportion of those killed.

1984 Anti-Sikh Riots

After the assassination of Indira Gandhi on 31 October 1984, by two of her Sikh bodyguards, riots erupted on 1 November 1984, and continued in some areas for days, killing some 3000 Sikhs.

Babri Mosque Incident

On 6 December, 1992 the mosque was destroyed by Hindu nationalists,[6] 150,000 strong, despite a commitment to the Indian Supreme Court that the mosque would not be harmed.[7][8] More than 2000 people were killed in the riots following the demolition. Riots broke out in many major Indian cities including Mumbai, Delhi and Hyderabad.

But I did get the number of Kashmiris killed right.. They are our neighbors and as a Punjabi I am very concerned about them...

http://img189.imageshack.us/i/indiamap.jpg/

 

[tadka]

Ok I admit.. I am not sure about the numbers... but here are the estimates :-

Gujarat Riots

According to an official estimate, 1044 people were killed in the violence - 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus including those killed in the Godhra train fire. Another 223 people were reported missing, 2,548 injured, 919 women widowed and 606 children orphaned.[30]

Unofficial estimates put the death toll closer to 2000, with Muslims forming a high proportion of those killed.

1984 Anti-Sikh Riots

After the assassination of Indira Gandhi on 31 October 1984, by two of her Sikh bodyguards, riots erupted on 1 November 1984, and continued in some areas for days, killing some 3000 Sikhs.

Babri Mosque Incident

On 6 December, 1992 the mosque was destroyed by Hindu nationalists,[6] 150,000 strong, despite a commitment to the Indian Supreme Court that the mosque would not be harmed.[7][8] More than 2000 people were killed in the riots following the demolition. Riots broke out in many major Indian cities including Mumbai, Delhi and Hyderabad.

But I did get the number of Kashmiris killed right.. They are our neighbors and as a Punjabi I am very concerned about them...

http://img189.imageshack.us/i/indiamap.jpg/

thank you.. like i mentioned people are dying on both sides.
Also the map showing muslime information is wrong. First the per capita in india is almost $1000 as the gdp is $1tr. Some muslimes ,especially muslimes in the south are very prosperous and make more than many other hndu subgroups like dalits and some brahmins. I have givena detail rsponse to this map in some other post , dont remember where. and im typing this in my iphone and my eyes are hurting me squinting at the screen. but all i can say is muslims are not vrey badly off india and certainly better off than dalits. the richest community in india is Jain and then christians.

 

[Developereo]

so now u are justifying . That is fine. So just sort out the atrocities u guys are doing before telling about Gujarat or Kashmir

No, you have been justifying the Gujarat riots because of supposed past history. Even if we accept the standard pathetic Indian justification, it misses this crucial distinction: Godhra was the handiwork of individual thugs; Gujarat was an organized pogrom by state and security officials.

You casually dismiss Gujarat as just another 'riot' because 'people are dying on both sides'.

According to an official estimate, 1044 people were killed in the violence - 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus including those killed in the Godhra train fire. Another 223 people were reported missing, 2,548 injured, 919 women widowed and 606 children orphaned.[30]

These are official 'estimates' from the same government which was complicit in the massacre. As indicated, independent estimates put the figure closer to the stated 2000, mostly Muslims.

Also note the bold part. The apologists always bring in the train incident as implicit justification for the organized massacre in Gujarat.

The fact that there are so many Indian apologists who continue to deny the severity of the incident and even implicitly justify it shows the continuing extent of the problem.

 

[Yusuf]

And which thread was it? I think you might be talking about when i said i dont pretend to be muslim unlike that idiot who asked me to chill with a black label. I dont ven talk about haraam things. Only pretenders like him can talk about all that. But i think you pea brain failed to register that.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

And which thread was it? I think you might be talking about when i said i dont pretend to be muslim unlike that idiot who asked me to chill with a black label. I dont ven talk about haraam things. Only pretenders like him can talk about all that. But i think you pea brain failed to register that.

To whom you are talking to ?

 

[Developereo]

To whom you are talking to ?

I had pointed out his statements in another thread. But I didn't want to derail this thread, so I edited my comments out before his reply.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

No, you have been justifying the Gujarat riots because of supposed past history. Even if we accept the standard pathetic Indian justification, it misses this crucial distinction: Godhra was the handiwork of individual thugs; Gujarat was an organized pogrom by state and security officials.

You casually dismiss Gujarat as just another 'riot' because 'people are dying on both sides'.



These are official 'estimates' from the same government which was complicit in the massacre. As indicated, independent estimates put the figure closer to the stated 2000, mostly Muslims.

Also note the bold part. The apologists always bring in the train incident as implicit justification for the organized massacre in Gujarat.

The fact that there are so many Indian apologists who continue to deny the severity of the incident and even implicitly justify it shows the continuing extent of the problem.

I know... the actual numbers are probably much higher... If you visit Sikh forums or websites.. they put the number to 10,000 instead of 3,000. Official estimates generally report low numbers.

 

[Creder]

thank you.. like i mentioned people are dying on both sides.
Also the map showing muslime information is wrong. First the per capita in india is almost $1000 as the gdp is $1tr. Some muslimes ,especially muslimes in the south are very prosperous and make more than many other hndu subgroups like dalits and some brahmins. I have givena detail rsponse to this map in some other post , dont remember where. and im typing this in my iphone and my eyes are hurting me squinting at the screen. but all i can say is muslims are not vrey badly off india and certainly better off than dalits. the richest community in india is Jain and then christians.

When your arguing with someone you back your arguments with some proof or something to go along with it... and the word is muslims not "muslime or muslimes"

 

[jinxeD_girl]

When your arguing with someone you back your arguments with some proof or something to go along with it... and the word is muslims not "muslime or muslimes"

He is typing from his iphone lol, maybe that is his excuse.

 

[Developereo]

I know... the actual numbers are probably much higher... If you visit Sikh forums or websites.. they put the number to 10,000 instead of 3,000. Official estimates generally report low numbers.

Exactly.

The same government that was complicit in the massacre, the same government that has denied justice to the victims, the same government that harasses witnesses and independent observers, is putting out these 'official estimates'.

Yeah right.

 

[Creder]

And which thread was it? I think you might be talking about when i said i dont pretend to be muslim unlike that idiot who asked me to chill with a black label. I dont ven talk about haraam things. Only pretenders like him can talk about all that. But i think you pea brain failed to register that.

well it takes one to know one and calm down this is an open forum islam also teaches respect and patience, guess you skipped over that part

 

[RobbieS]

As an Indian, I dont think there can be any justification of what happened in Gujrat. It was a national shame and no wonder BJP has not been come to power in the center ever since. In fact BJP's popularity and votebank has seen a marked decline since the Gujrat riots.

But talking of justifications, what is the justification for Pakistanis talking about it? Whats with your regional Islamic thekedari?

 

[tadka]

No, you have been justifying the Gujarat riots because of supposed past history. Even if we accept the standard pathetic Indian justification, it misses this crucial distinction: Godhra was the handiwork of individual thugs; Gujarat was an organized pogrom by state and security officials.

You casually dismiss Gujarat as just another 'riot' because 'people are dying on both sides'.



These are official 'estimates' from the same government which was complicit in the massacre. As indicated, independent estimates put the figure closer to the stated 2000, mostly Muslims.

Also note the bold part. The apologists always bring in the train incident as implicit justification for the organized massacre in Gujarat.

The fact that there are so many Indian apologists who continue to deny the severity of the incident and even implicitly justify it shows the continuing extent of the problem.

Lol.. you are only frustrated. Guj riots was not planned or organised by the state.If so why is it that nothing else has happened after 10 years and the imam of ahmedabad praised modi. You are attacking personally and say things lke pathetic. You cannot decetly argue like Jinxed_girl.
But anyways, you can say what you want about guj riots, but now muslims in india are on par with everyone else. they have the same problmes as other indians.
What i am saying is, you people have commited atrocities on hindus. It is your state policy of discriminating against them.Many hindus have been killed by you people and many have been forced to convert and when you have such things going on against your minority dont opke your nose in minority affairs of india.
the 2000 is a lie done by people like roy and setalvad. the numbers are given by central govt which is not the same as guj govt. (you wont understand as you ppl dont have a democracy) and yes it was only a riot.
All people , listen, do you know why police could not do anything, because they could not, they were too ill equipped to handle the mob. They would have been killed had they intervened. It is for the same reason police could not do anything during 26/11. after all what can police who were not prepared do when 1000s of mob people come to kill. thats why they had to wait for army. dont talk if you dont know.

 

[tadka]

I know... the actual numbers are probably much higher... If you visit Sikh forums or websites.. they put the number to 10,000 instead of 3,000. Official estimates generally report low numbers.

You can only rely on official fig at least in ndia. Otherwise who can u beleive. Will you trust independent sorces if they say only 50 muslims were killed .