27th February Was Only Half the Surprise Revealed !!!

[Path-Finder]

I see the return of the same menstruation cycle with the board members as they excessively gas with their mental farts. Why aren't you in PAF if you have so much bravado on forum?

 

[Zane_K]

Can anyone please translate.. I cannot read urdu because I was brought up in gora pakora land. Sorry

Ha. . Same.
need to learn Urdu ! Pakistanis in Pakistan think we’re dum dums.

I see the return of the same menstruation cycle with the board members as they excessively gas with their mental farts. Why aren't you in PAF if you have so much bravado on forum?

Ha.. on their period

 

[masterchief_mirza]

The biggest surprise was to not shoot their jets we had a lock on.
They will never be able to figure that one out.
And some times we need to accept our flawed execution instead of dancing over it all the time.
Not only creating a question mark on our own claims, but to allow them to regroup and figure out the gaps and fill them and come prepared the next time around.

It's not about escalation (even I was in favor of not escalating initially) but it's about using your advantage while you can to its fullest. Did we?

What's the point of dominating the air for one day when it's going to help with nothing in a war in the future?
There are strategists, and then there are day battle winners.
Should we focus on conquering one peak and losing the whole war?

We jammed their Mirage 2000's? Good, next time they will carry stuff that won't allow us.
We evaded lock on? Next time they will come armed with stuff that not only locks us but is able to shoot us from a greater distance than we can.

I believe whether we shot 2 of them or 10 of them, only two possible outcomes ever existed and Pakistani planners knew this - either: the current course of events would have still panned out, or there would have been total war.

Consider both possible outcomes.

In the event of total war, knocking out 10 of them or even more than 5 would have been a brilliant start to the war and would have given us a great advantage - so I think you're right in that scenario.

However, it was always more likely that things would deescalate. In this scenario, which actually panned out, whether we downed 2 or 10 would make no difference.

India would replace the lost aircraft over time, even upgrading vigorously to Rafales. India would still pursue S400s. India would still carry out its geopolitical sequence of actions as planned.

In this latter scenario, which is the one that played out,there is a school of thought that suggests it was justifiable to NOT display our full capacity and capability against a powerful enemy.

In short, if our planners intended escalation to total war, we should have downed as many of the bstards as possible. However, if we predicted a deescalation, playing our precious cards close to our chest is justifiable - I'm not saying it was necessarily correct - but at least, justifiable and reasoned.

We all now have the benefit of hindsight. It's a wonderful thing.

By hiding our maximum potential, the enemy still doesn't quite know our maximum capability, hence this creates uncertainty in their plans.

 

[Oruc]

Pakistan never wanted Modi to be in a position where All out war was the only option left.

 

[SIPRA]

This statement of yours has answered all the critics as to why we did not go gung ho and bring down all the 9 fighters.
The questions one really needs to ask oneself is.
A. Are we in a position to have a full fledged war with India?
B. So what was the aim ofhaving this whole exercise? Was it to down IAF inventory or tech demonstration?
We have seriously underestimated the demoralizing effect of not knowing how the situation turned out so drastically bad for IAF? A fear of the unknown is a prime force in developing uncertainty while not provoking enough for the opposition to throw all caution to the wind and let loose with all it has at its disposal.
So I ask all the critics again what was more important, starting a full fledged war with no winners and a 100 million people dead on both sides if not more; or giving tge enemy just a taster of what it shohld expect if it ventures into our terrain again. I strongly suspect the other fighters which were logged were still in Indian air space and as such in peace times the act of taking them out would have been tentamount to an aggression which would have forced a response. The response would have been missile strikes and unless and until you were willing to throw40 to 50 Nukes across the border to totally anihilate India theassured outcome would have been significant damage to your country and in fact possibly no country left worth mentioning .
40 to 50 nukes thrownacross India will unleash havoc the consequences would have envelopedyou China and at least half the world with loss of a couple of billion lives plus. You wouldthen have invited a free for all with all the big boys jumping in and the endgame being played out in the subcontinent.
People need to play put scenarios before opening their mouths/typing their thoughts.
No disrespect intended to anyone.
A

Excellent post. Good to see some sane analysis; otherwise I had started feeling, as if I am sitting on some "tharha" of "Choona Mandi", and not on some defense forum.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Pakistan is losing the relevance and importance of its " Nuclear Deterrent"

Nuclear deterrent was called by India in bombing Balakot a "Sovereign Pakistani territory" actually destroyed the nuclear blackmail & deterrent which was there to Protect the sovereignty of Pakistan as per state.

so what we are going to do with 150 nuclear warheads...nothing we cant use them they can come and bomb again this time sialkot peripheries.. we sit tight say they just "payload jettison" next day we will do the same shoot 1 x more mig-21 and all is well! celebrate!

What a blunder!

 

[Path-Finder]

Ha.. on their period

yep the same period we saw on 26/02/19 or 02/26/19

 

[crankthatskunk]

Nuclear deterrent was called by India in bombing Balakot a "Sovereign Pakistani territory" actually destroyed the nuclear blackmail & deterrent which was there to Protect the sovereignty of Pakistan as per state.

so what we are going to do with 150 nuclear warheads...nothing we cant use them they can come and bomb again this time sialkot peripheries.. we sit tight say they just "payload jettison" next day we will do the same shoot 1 x more mig-21 and all is well! celebrate!

What a blunder!

This is the message people here do not get. They had been swayed by the propaganda.
Pakistan is losing its deterrence completely. The only thing which stopped India for attacking Pakistan for over 25 years was nuclear hangover. They tested our response on 26th Feb 2019. We responded as they expected, dithering, bravado, verbal threats, which equal to "Abke Maar". But nothing substantial. True we attacked them on 27th Feb 2019, that's also because of the remarks IK made that Pakistan would have no other choice but to respond. If it wasn't down to IK's promise, we would have done nothing but issue a "stern warning" as usual, with the added salt of the oft repeating mantra " Pakistani armed forces" are willing and capable to defend the country against any aggression.

Now nuclear deterrence made redundant by Indians. They moved on to the next step of change in the special status of Kashmir. And those who are wrongfully thinking that is it. Should know for certainty India would attack Azad Kashmir, wait for it.

 

[Zane_K]

This is the message people here do not get. They had been swayed by the propaganda.
Pakistan is losing its deterrence completely. The only thing which stopped India for attacking Pakistan for over 25 years was nuclear hangover. They tested our response on 26th Feb 2019. We responded as they expected, dithering, bravado, verbal threats, which equal to "Abke Maar". But nothing substantial. True we attacked them on 27th Feb 2019, that's also because of the remarks IK made that Pakistan would have no other choice but to respond. If it wasn't down to IK's promise, we would have done nothing but issue a "stern warning" as usual, with the added salt of the oft repeating mantra " Pakistani armed forces" are willing and capable to defend the country against any aggression.

Now nuclear deterrence made redundant by Indians. They moved on to the next step of change in the special status of Kashmir. And those who are wrongfully thinking that is it. Should know for certainty India would attack Azad Kashmir, wait for it.

i don't believe that India would make a play for Azad Kashmir.. that would definitely bring all out war. Both countries do not want all out war that is clear.
And referring to the nuclear option..... who in their right mind would use them unless in a dire, catastrophic situation.

 

[SIPRA]

I believe whether we shot 2 of them or 10 of them, only two possible outcomes ever existed and Pakistani planners knew this - either: the current course of events would have still panned out, or there would have been total war.

Consider both possible outcomes.

In the event of total war, knocking out 10 of them or even more than 5 would have been a brilliant start to the war and would have given us a great advantage - so I think you're right in that scenario.

However, it was always more likely that things would deescalate. In this scenario, which actually panned out, whether we downed 2 or 10 would make no difference.

India would replace the lost aircraft over time, even upgrading vigorously to Rafales. India would still pursue S400s. India would still carry out its geopolitical sequence of actions as planned.

In this latter scenario, which is the one that played out,there is a school of thought that suggests it was justifiable to NOT display our full capacity and capability against a powerful enemy.

In short, if our planners intended escalation to total war, we should have downed as many of the bstards as possible. However, if we predicted a deescalation, playing our precious cards close to our chest is justifiable - I'm not saying it was necessarily correct - but at least, justifiable and reasoned.

We all now have the benefit of hindsight. It's a wonderful thing.

By hiding our maximum potential, the enemy still doesn't quite know our maximum capability, hence this creates uncertainty in their plans.

Sane analysis. Otherwise, PDF has become quite replete with "Maula Jutts" and "Noori Nutts".

 

[ProudPak]

Hi,

Nothing---just the usual dance and prance of the Paf for their under performance---.

Says a loser and a drunk who is a foreigner in a land he claims as his home. What have you done with your life other than talk. You are just liken your talking peers. Indian

 

[ziaulislam]

JF17 vs M2000 .. Big revelation indeed ! Seems legit as well since its on PAF calendar

For non Urdu reading ppl

M2000 were sent by IAF to chase and shoot down PAF aircraft after our successful raid. They faced JF17 thunders which not only successfully jammed M2000 radars and broke the locks but also locked them instead and tracked them successfully forcing them to disengage and exit from the theater. It further adds that the M2000 pilots were continuously calling to their ground controllers that their radars are not working ;specific Pakistani (ORIGIN OR INSTALLED BY PAK - what the description seems to imply) electronic warfare devices.

Not sure if the thunders did all that by themselves without help of other assets (Erieye or Blinders) but if this is all true than maybe JF17B3 can stand its ground against Rafale if properly employed with other PAF assets.

Mirage 2000 upgrade was finalzed in mid to early 2000
The radar cant use the meteor effectively either.
I am just wandering whether french on purpose restricted the latest and best so that india buys up the rafale..
They did that with our agosta

Tells u why PAF is sticking to its thunder
High availability high sorties rate and decent capabilities ..
It also shows why PAF didnt try hard to get mirage 2000

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

They did that with our agosta

What they did?

 

[ziaulislam]

Nuclear deterrent was called by India in bombing Balakot a "Sovereign Pakistani territory" actually destroyed the nuclear blackmail & deterrent which was there to Protect the sovereignty of Pakistan as per state.

so what we are going to do with 150 nuclear warheads...nothing we cant use them they can come and bomb again this time sialkot peripheries.. we sit tight say they just "payload jettison" next day we will do the same shoot 1 x more mig-21 and all is well! celebrate!

What a blunder!

Did you read pakistani nuclear doctrine ..
Google it or read a book
Did it mention we will nuke india if a "patakha" goes out..
If that was case we would have nuked india when 79,000 civilian were killed by india..
Nukes are for last resort think of 1971..thats what nukes are for

What they did?

Sold us subpar and very next day offered india scorpian..the very next day offered us slightly uograded scorpian(when we went for U boats instead)...

And all three were ready at time of sale..

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Sold us subpar and very next day offered india scorpian..the very next day offered us slightly uograded scorpian(when we went for U boats instead)...

And all three were ready at time of sale..

Why didnt we chose Scorpene?