That is the best reason to go war.Neither side will go to war right now, world economy is imploding atm
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That is the best reason to go war.Neither side will go to war right now, world economy is imploding atm
Neither side will go to war right now, world economy is imploding atm
@MastanKhan ask your self this question: Out of the whole strike package why Only 4 (2 Mirages + @ JF-17) actually went in for the strike (air interdiction) whilst a whole squadron was air superiority.
Hello @MastanKhanHi,
Well that is the question---. When there were 4 strike aircraft and they all did their job then why did the sqdrn of air superiority fighters did not do their job---. That is what I have been bringing out---.
Why did the pilots had to seek permission to fire on multiple targets that were locked on---. Why did they not have prior briefing when facing a situation like this---.
In modern day air combat---every millisecond counts and every second wasted is a second too late---and every second lost is the difference between life and death---.
Then what was the reason that the Paf air command had not readied its fighter to shoot when targets of opportunity became available---.
Why did the pilot have to call and seek permission---.
Why did that air vice marshall in the air did not understand the gravity of the lost seconds---.
If the pilot did not have the authority to launch missiles---if the AVM in the air did not have the authority to permit launching the missile then what was that AVM doing in the air---what was his job definition that day---.
Why did the Paf hierarchy waste 16 second to give permission to shoot---. Why was not there a person in the control room having the authority to allow shooting down the enemy---. Why was one Paf general passing on the buck to the next general in command---?
Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.A counter argument would be this: if so many aircraft were on CAP, why did they have to wait for permission from the ground to engage enemy fighters that were there for the sole reason to prevent them from succeeding in their mission?
In these days of datalinks, the whole aerial picture is in front of the pilots including the mission leader in the air. If they deem an enemy aircraft can pose a threat, they should engage without wasting precious minutes or even seconds which can put the lives of their colleagues in peril.
In aerial warfare I believe seconds count. The country's sovereignty had been violated and you are waiting for permission to fire when the mission itself is an offensive mission albeit in reponse to the enemy's aggression?
In the '67 and '73 wars, the IAF pilots on many occasions took bold decisions on their own. Granted radio communication was not as robust as it is today and they would have made some decisions without able to communicate with ground controllers. Better communications must not result in the decision making process transferred to the ground in the heat of the battle. Micromanagement has some downside.
Now that you've been given a befitting response/ reply to every thing you swung at me..., care to go for Round 2?!!
You just ran away like a little ***** that you are. You just needed some time to recover from over dosage of reality check.I am logging in after a month. So just saw your response. Will write in detail in a day or two. Thanks!
Hello @MastanKhan
The answer is simple Mastan The main focus was an eye for an eye reply and not inflict a whole war on the Indian Air force and the other thing is that ROE's apply. The moment IAF continued bearing towards Pakistan air space they would have been shot down.
why the IAF did not continue is another question.
I can talk for for hours as to why the PAF did not shoot the SU-30 and mirage combos but the straight cave man answer is that the did not violate our air space or they were not an immediate threat to our strike fighters.
We all know what happened to Sardar in the SU-30 and our friend from Chennai in his Mig-21.
I'am more grieved than you because we spared 9 bastards.......9 bastards that were sensible and did nothing wrong.
Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.
Permission or no Permission.
Pakistan has seen many opportunities lost, due to these "older wise men"
Hi,
At this stage---I do not want a J-31---. We need to keep our fighter / strike aircraft in the realm of reality and that realm is the 4th / 4.5 gen aircraft---.
My ultimate target and goal would be to have a strike aircraft that can hit mumbai and pummel its economic assets to the ground---be it the SU34's---the J models---or the JH7A---it don't matter---but has to be an aircraft that can carry two heavy AShM's or ASM's---.
Pakistan's primary need is to bring lay havoc on the enemy's economic centers---.
Freinds of Pakistan should Negate the Paf's mentality of being a defensive air force---and vehemently condemn and reject it at every forum possible---.
Hello @MastanKhan
The answer is simple Mastan The main focus was an eye for an eye reply and not inflict a whole war on the Indian Air force and the other thing is that ROE's apply. The moment IAF continued bearing towards Pakistan air space they would have been shot down.
why the IAF did not continue is another question.
I can talk for for hours as to why the PAF did not shoot the SU-30 and mirage combos but the straight cave man answer is that the did not violate our air space or they were not an immediate threat to our strike fighters.
We all know what happened to Sardar in the SU-30 and our friend from Chennai in his Mig-21.
I'am more grieved than you because we spared 9 bastards.......9 bastards that were sensible and did nothing wrong.
Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.
Permission or no Permission.
Hello @MastanKhan
The answer is simple Mastan The main focus was an eye for an eye reply and not inflict a whole war on the Indian Air force and the other thing is that ROE's apply. The moment IAF continued bearing towards Pakistan air space they would have been shot down.
why the IAF did not continue is another question.
I can talk for for hours as to why the PAF did not shoot the SU-30 and mirage combos but the straight cave man answer is that the did not violate our air space or they were not an immediate threat to our strike fighters.
We all know what happened to Sardar in the SU-30 and our friend from Chennai in his Mig-21.
I'am more grieved than you because we spared 9 bastards.......9 bastards that were sensible and did nothing wrong.
Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.
Permission or no Permission.
There is no guarantee of that and you can not establish a cause and effect either.It's just the MK and others are upset that a chance of a lifetime to give the Indian a beating to remember was thrown away. A beating that would have avoided the present situation.
khirad ko gholami se azad ker, jawano ko piron ke estad kar.
In these days of datalinks, the whole aerial picture is in front of the pilots including the mission leader in the air. If they deem an enemy aircraft can pose a threat, they should engage without wasting precious minutes or even seconds which can put the lives of their colleagues in peril.
In aerial warfare I believe seconds count. The country's sovereignty had been violated and you are waiting for permission to fire when the mission itself is an offensive mission albeit in reponse to the enemy's aggression?
In the '67 and '73 wars, the IAF pilots on many occasions took bold decisions on their own. Granted radio communication was not as robust as it is today and they would have made some decisions without able to communicate with ground controllers. Better communications must not result in the decision making process transferred to the ground in the heat of the battle. Micromanagement has some downside.
Hello @MastanKhan
The answer is simple Mastan The main focus was an eye for an eye reply and not inflict a whole war on the Indian Air force and the other thing is that ROE's apply. The moment IAF continued bearing towards Pakistan air space they would have been shot down.
why the IAF did not continue is another question.
I can talk for for hours as to why the PAF did not shoot the SU-30 and mirage combos but the straight cave man answer is that the did not violate our air space or they were not an immediate threat to our strike fighters.
We all know what happened to Sardar in the SU-30 and our friend from Chennai in his Mig-21.
I'am more grieved than you because we spared 9 bastards.......9 bastards that were sensible and did nothing wrong.
Every thing is preset. I have no Idea about permission and the clear to shoot from the ground is a BS (what I believe) as soon as one of those engaged targets (Not a bandit yet) would have been a threat to the strikers or attempted to Cross the International border they would have been Amraam'ed.
Permission or no Permission.
A counter argument would be this: if so many aircraft were on CAP, why did they have to wait for permission from the ground to engage enemy fighters that were there for the sole reason to prevent them from succeeding in their mission?
In these days of datalinks, the whole aerial picture is in front of the pilots including the mission leader in the air. If they deem an enemy aircraft can pose a threat, they should engage without wasting precious minutes or even seconds which can put the lives of their colleagues in peril.
In aerial warfare I believe seconds count. The country's sovereignty had been violated and you are waiting for permission to fire when the mission itself is an offensive mission albeit in reponse to the enemy's aggression?
In the '67 and '73 wars, the IAF pilots on many occasions took bold decisions on their own. Granted radio communication was not as robust as it is today and they would have made some decisions without able to communicate with ground controllers. Better communications must not result in the decision making process transferred to the ground in the heat of the battle. Micromanagement has some downside.
Operation Swift Retort was planned and executed by the Pakistan high command, the correct procedure was followed and to avoid a all out war, it was a measured response
No and No
communication and information between air and land is crucial part of pilot training, its fundamental the Air Force pilots take orders not decisions this is drilled in from day one, you step outside this domain you are dismissed no matter how senior you are, this is how it works in the military, why> because you follow plans and instructions
this is what Arabs do and look how it ended for them
Pakistani pilots are disciplined and robust, and in a non-war time footing every order has to followed they are not in the middle of a 1960s dogfight
Operation Swift Retort was planned and executed by the Pakistan high command, the correct procedure was followed and to avoid a all out war, it was a measured response
Indian pilots on the other hand were acting independently basically your descripton and looked what happened
What if the IAF were to engage our strike package first? Or all airborne IAF aircrafts actually got into a hot pursuits like abhinandon?
I don't think they would have bought our
"hey its just tit for tat"
Excuse.
Besides the word improvisation consists of only 13 letters - - -.
Hi,
You just jumped into the fray and have started making excuses---without knowing the procedure and process involved---even though you are an articulate and knowledgeable poster---.
All evantualities are discussed in pre-flight briefing---that was what the Paf pilots had learnt from USAF pilots training---.
..
What if the IAF were to engage our strike package first? Or all airborne IAF aircrafts actually got into a hot pursuits like abhinandon?
- - -.