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ZDK-03 Karakoram Eagle AWACS inducted in Pakistan Air Force Squadron 4

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan's Air Force (PAF) Thursday stood up its unit of Chinese Karakorum Eagle AEW&C aircraft in a ceremony attended by the head of the PAF, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafiq Butt, and Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

Though the exact location of the ceremony was not given, it is believed to have been held at PAF Base Masroor in Karachi as the prime minister was known to have been in the city that day.

Brian Cloughley, an analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, said AEW&C "is very good news for the PAF – and for Pakistan" because it "will dramatically improve early warning capabilities which up until now have been comparatively rudimentary."

The ZDK-03 Karakorum Eagle is a dish-based AEW&C system mounted on a Shaanxi Y-8F600 aircraft. Though never confirmed, it has been speculated that the dish houses an AESA antenna.

Four were ordered in 2008 with the first delivered in 2010.

Air Commodore Syed Muhammad Ali, a spokesman for the Air Force, confirmed all Karakorum Eagle aircraft on order have now been delivered, but could not say if more would be ordered from China.

The aircraft join No.4 Squadron, which was first established in 1959 with Bristol Freighter transports and Grumman HU-16 Albatross amphibians. The amphibians were used for maritime reconnaissance, search and rescue, and casualty evacuation alongside Sikorsky H-19D helicopters. The HU-16s were retired in 1968 and the H-19Ds in 1969.

The unit was then "number-plated" until officially re-equipped with the Karakorum Eagle.

The four Karakorum Eagle AEW&C aircraft join the surviving three Saab Erieye AEW&C aircraft ordered in 2005 and delivered from 2009. One of the four Erieye aircraft was destroyed in a terrorist attack on Kamra Air Base in August 2012.

That the Air Force operates two types of AEW&C aircraft for the same mission has been much commented on.

Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank says the Karakorum Eagle's mission is "asically the same job as Erieye but based in southern sector.

"To cover all the length of Pakistan we needed additional AEW&C aircraft and ZDK-03 was the answer due to political and financial considerations," he said.

Former Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail says the PAF was not keen on their purchase.

"The [Karakorum] Eagle was purchased rather reluctantly, under pressure of [then President] Gen. Musharraf, as a political expedient [Chinese appeasement], and not because of any reasons of technical superiority," he said. "It would have been more cost effective to manage a single type than these two vastly different ones."

Though he now believes attitudes have changed.

"Having said that, the performance of the Eagle has turned out to be surprisingly good, which takes some sting out of the initial criticism," he said.

Tufail says an absence of news of the fourth aircraft being delivered may mean it is undergoing installation of Link 16 datalink equipment to enable it to communicate with all of the PAF's aircraft, particularly its F-16s, and not just the JF-17 Thunders.

To date the Erieye AEW&C aircraft have been able to communicate with the Western aircraft in service such as the F-16, and the Karakorum Eagle with the Chinese aircraft such as the Sino-Pak JF-17, and perhaps the F-7PG.

Cloughley does not think this has changed.

"It's unlikely that the systems will complement those of the US, but cooperation with China is more important for Pakistan," he said.

PAF officials have previously told Defense News that this was impractical and would change.

Though perhaps not as technologically advanced as the Swedish Erieye, according to Haris Khan of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank, the two types of AEW&C aircraft have worked very well together with the installation of Link 16 compatible equipment throughout the PAF's aircraft fleet.

Combined, they have effectively covered the country and much of Pakistan's maritime area of interest.

Email: uansari
 
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1) This is the Horse that never lies :cheers:
2) The Data was being transported through the GC stations till March of 2013. Its as confirmed as the dawn every morning.
3) The idea has ALWAYS been to skip the latency issue all together. But then Link 16 isn't an open standard that is easy to crack open or integrated with others. There was a LOT that happened behind the scenes to get access to Tx/Rec protocols for the Chinese.
4) The Erieye couldn't feed the Chinese systems. Their platform was proprietary and to a degree where even the Western systems at times had issues in dealing with Erieye in certain modes in is early days on Embraer platforms. Which is when, the Swedes decided to use American components in their system compared to their own and French.
5) I think I am talking 2013.....may be since then the solution was developed (which I referred to as an external device) for the JFT and ZDK's. The Horse hasn't talked about this since 2013 so I assume this is when all this was fixed and settled..

1) Well, must be a similar horse to mine.. funny how when I passed the message on about the Block-II being nothing more than a small update there were supposed experts who would swear their lives on it being the next F-35. Then again, I was a horse for some things till 2012.

2) Till the fix came about it was always going to be that way. Not to mention the rather "wonderful" R&S systems that everybody outside the airforce hates.

3) May not be an open standard, but certain ideas from STANAG and MIL-STD could be implemented without the enc/dec protocols.. they were the actual hurdle.

4) Contrary to most claims, the Erieye is still the most sophisticated piece of equipment the PAF has..which is why when things blew up.. after the smoke cleared there were mad scrambles to find out how it all works. As if they could actually pull it off.

5) The solution took shape in the same line of desks as mine, but in those times it was scouring Mil-Stds and some material that was dropped off by blue shirts on and off.
 
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The first ZDK-03 (S/N 11-001) was delivered to PAF in December 2011. The 2nd (S/N 12-002) was delivered some time later. The third ZDK-03 (S/N 13-003) was delivered in 2013.

- Last Updated 2/26/15




your info is not correct





No 4 Squadron previously was number plated meaning retired. So induction of AWACS is re equipment for the squadron. Nothing to do with erieye and karma incident.
So now we have total 8 AWACS 4 Chinese and 4 Saab
 
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1) This is the Horse that never lies :cheers:
2) The Data was being transported through the GC stations till March of 2013. Its as confirmed as the dawn every morning.
3) The idea has ALWAYS been to skip the latency issue all together. But then Link 16 isn't an open standard that is easy to crack open or integrated with others. There was a LOT that happened behind the scenes to get access to Tx/Rec protocols for the Chinese.
4) The Erieye couldn't feed the Chinese systems. Their platform was proprietary and to a degree where even the Western systems at times had issues in dealing with Erieye in certain modes in is early days on Embraer platforms. Which is when, the Swedes decided to use American components in their system compared to their own and French.
5) I think I am talking 2013.....may be since then the solution was developed (which I referred to as an external device) for the JFT and ZDK's. The Horse hasn't talked about this since 2013 so I assume this is when all this was fixed and settled.



Round antenna theoretically gives you closer to 360 degree coverage due to the radius it covers. The Horizontal provides main-lobe, and side-lobe coverage north of 150 degrees and south of 200 degrees. So with a horizontal antenna, the plane will always need to fly parallel to the border of your enemy to provide main lobe coverage.

The secondary Beam Concentrated Regions will be covered through the black-lobe of the frequency hopping spectrum, and it will always face the other side, in this case, the Pakistani side. With horizontal antenna, your flight envelop changes to a specific pattern majority of the time during regular missions. Horizontal Beam Transmission (aka, HBT) in an AESA means you could have side-lobe gaps too when compared to a Round antenna (AESA also). So in general terns, the better option is the Round antenna, specifically the ones deployed on US AWACS and on Israeli Phalcons (three AESA's fixed, no rotation, no lobe issues and proper coverage almost 360 degrees). Pakistani ZDK isn't too far from an operational stand point, but it is obviously a lower tech with some latency (2-3 seconds) because the two AESA's rotate. But its good enough for the purpose its created for, in Pakistan's case.

What is the E-scan angle for ZDK and Erieye in degrees?
 
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Pakistan Re-equips Squadron With AEW&C Planes

Pakistan's Air Force (PAF) Thursday stood up its unit of Chinese Karakorum Eagle AEW&C aircraft in a ceremony attended by the head of the PAF, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafiq Butt, and Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

Though the exact location of the ceremony was not given, it is believed to have been held at PAF Base Masroor in Karachi as the prime minister was known to have been in the city that day.

Brian Cloughley, an analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, said AEW&C "is very good news for the PAF – and for Pakistan" because it "will dramatically improve early warning capabilities which up until now have been comparatively rudimentary."

The ZDK-03 Karakorum Eagle is a dish-based AEW&C system mounted on a Shaanxi Y-8F600 aircraft. Though never confirmed, it has been speculated that the dish houses an AESA antenna.

Four were ordered in 2008 with the first delivered in 2010.

Air Commodore Syed Muhammad Ali, a spokesman for the Air Force, confirmed all Karakorum Eagle aircraft on order have now been delivered, but could not say if more would be ordered from China.

The aircraft join No.4 Squadron, which was first established in 1959 with Bristol Freighter transports and Grumman HU-16 Albatross amphibians. The amphibians were used for maritime reconnaissance, search and rescue, and casualty evacuation alongside Sikorsky H-19D helicopters. The HU-16s were retired in 1968 and the H-19Ds in 1969.

The unit was then "number-plated" until officially re-equipped with the Karakorum Eagle.

The four Karakorum Eagle AEW&C aircraft join the surviving three Saab Erieye AEW&C aircraft ordered in 2005 and delivered from 2009. One of the four Erieye aircraft was destroyed in a terrorist attack on Kamra Air Base in August 2012.

That the Air Force operates two types of AEW&C aircraft for the same mission has been much commented on.

Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank says the Karakorum Eagle's mission is "asically the same job as Erieye but based in southern sector.

"To cover all the length of Pakistan we needed additional AEW&C aircraft and ZDK-03 was the answer due to political and financial considerations," he said.

Former Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail says the PAF was not keen on their purchase.

"The [Karakorum] Eagle was purchased rather reluctantly, under pressure of [then President] Gen. Musharraf, as a political expedient [Chinese appeasement], and not because of any reasons of technical superiority," he said. "It would have been more cost effective to manage a single type than these two vastly different ones."

Though he now believes attitudes have changed.

"Having said that, the performance of the Eagle has turned out to be surprisingly good, which takes some sting out of the initial criticism," he said.

Tufail says an absence of news of the fourth aircraft being delivered may mean it is undergoing installation of Link 16 datalink equipment to enable it to communicate with all of the PAF's aircraft, particularly its F-16s, and not just the JF-17 Thunders.

To date the Erieye AEW&C aircraft have been able to communicate with the Western aircraft in service such as the F-16, and the Karakorum Eagle with the Chinese aircraft such as the Sino-Pak JF-17, and perhaps the F-7PG.

Cloughley does not think this has changed.

"It's unlikely that the systems will complement those of the US, but cooperation with China is more important for Pakistan," he said.

PAF officials have previously told Defense News that this was impractical and would change.

Though perhaps not as technologically advanced as the Swedish Erieye, according to Haris Khan of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank, the two types of AEW&C aircraft have worked very well together with the installation of Link 16 compatible equipment throughout the PAF's aircraft fleet.

Combined, they have effectively covered the country and much of Pakistan's maritime area of interest.

Pakistan Re-equips Squadron With AEW&C Planes
 
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What is the E-scan angle for ZDK and Erieye in degrees?

Don't know about ZDK, but knowing its s rotational, bi-EScan configuration, it is safe to assume its closer to 360 degrees. But to make it cost effective, Pakistan picked dual rotational AESA configuration, vs. three fixed housings. It's also safe to assume that the beam sharpening will be lesser than say the US AWACS or Israeli Phalcon as the total number or TR modules would be less than what tri-AESA fixed housing provides.

Erieye's main lobe EScan if I remember correctly was somewhere around 160 - 190 degrees as it's not a 360 degree system. But there may be a thread on here where someone may have posted its brochure, that would have more accurate information on it.
 
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Erieye's main lobe EScan if I remember correctly was somewhere around 160 - 190 degrees as it's not a 360 degree system. But there may be a thread on here where someone may have posted its brochure, that would have more accurate information on it.


Its 150 degree on each side... thats 300 degree of coverage...
 
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hha.. bang on target ..!!
A bit off-topic but nonetheless relevant, this aircraft was given as a prime example of ingenuity and utilisation, a Russian designed fighter, built by the Chinese, supporting Pakistani designed drop tanks, , the pilot sits on a British Martin Baker ejection seat and it fires American missiles.....once this could only happen in Pakistan.

f6landing.jpg
 
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Its 150 degree on each side... thats 300 degree of coverage...

That sounds about right, now if you add traditional radar housed in the nose cone of the plane, which still covers out to about 50-75 miles, you add more coverage. So all in all, with different spectrums, you'd get over 150 on one side, less then or equal to 150 on the other side (black lobe), so like 320 degrees as an estimate. The frequency spectrum is lobe based so the wavelength travels on sides.
 
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Don't know about ZDK, but knowing its s rotational, bi-EScan configuration, it is safe to assume its closer to 360 degrees. But to make it cost effective, Pakistan picked dual rotational AESA configuration, vs. three fixed housings. It's also safe to assume that the beam sharpening will be lesser than say the US AWACS or Israeli Phalcon as the total number or TR modules would be less than what tri-AESA fixed housing provides.

Erieye's main lobe EScan if I remember correctly was somewhere around 160 - 190 degrees as it's not a 360 degree system. But there may be a thread on here where someone may have posted its brochure, that would have more accurate information on it.

Well, with Erieye it could scan electronically both in elevation and azimuth, The azimuth was 150 degree approx, meaning there is a 30 degree blind spot fore and aft of the aircraft.

ZDK i am not too sure, but the rotational radome is needed since the radar cannot scan in azimuth electronically. Three mounted radars are better, but then they lose the central lobe more frequently. I guess PAF though of it and it reached a compromise.
 
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The ceremony showed 3 AWACS.
One with nose cone 002 was parked outside. The nose cone 003 was inside.
And one did the flypast.
 
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Pakistan Re-equips Squadron With AEW&C Planes

By Usman Ansari
February 28, 2015

635606538037009625-GettyImages-458903574.jpg

Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on Nov. 13, 2014.(Photo: WPA Pool/Getty Images)

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan's Air Force (PAF) Thursday stood up its unit of Chinese Karakorum Eagle AEW&C aircraft in a ceremony attended by the head of the PAF, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafiq Butt, and Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

Though the exact location of the ceremony was not given, it is believed to have been held at PAF Base Masroor in Karachi as the prime minister was known to have been in the city that day.

Brian Cloughley, an analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, said AEW&C "is very good news for the PAF – and for Pakistan" because it "will dramatically improve early warning capabilities which up until now have been comparatively rudimentary."

The ZDK-03 Karakorum Eagle is a dish-based AEW&C system mounted on a Shaanxi Y-8F600 aircraft. Though never confirmed, it has been speculated that the dish houses an AESA antenna.

Four were ordered in 2008 with the first delivered in 2010.

Air Commodore Syed Muhammad Ali, a spokesman for the Air Force, confirmed all Karakorum Eagle aircraft on order have now been delivered, but could not say if more would be ordered from China.

The aircraft join No.4 Squadron, which was first established in 1959 with Bristol Freighter transports and Grumman HU-16 Albatross amphibians. The amphibians were used for maritime reconnaissance, search and rescue, and casualty evacuation alongside Sikorsky H-19D helicopters. The HU-16s were retired in 1968 and the H-19Ds in 1969.

The unit was then "number-plated" until officially re-equipped with the Karakorum Eagle.

The four Karakorum Eagle AEW&C aircraft join the surviving three Saab Erieye AEW&C aircraft ordered in 2005 and delivered from 2009. One of the four Erieye aircraft was destroyed in a terrorist attack on Kamra Air Base in August 2012.

That the Air Force operates two types of AEW&C aircraft for the same mission has been much commented on.

Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank says the Karakorum Eagle's mission is basically the same job as Erieye but based in southern sector.

"To cover all the length of Pakistan we needed additional AEW&C aircraft and ZDK-03 was the answer due to political and financial considerations," he said.

Former Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail says the PAF was not keen on their purchase.

"The [Karakorum] Eagle was purchased rather reluctantly, under pressure of [then President] Gen. Musharraf, as a political expedient [Chinese appeasement], and not because of any reasons of technical superiority," he said. "It would have been more cost effective to manage a single type than these two vastly different ones."

Though he now believes attitudes have changed.

"Having said that, the performance of the Eagle has turned out to be surprisingly good, which takes some sting out of the initial criticism," he said.

Tufail says an absence of news of the fourth aircraft being delivered may mean it is undergoing installation of Link 16 datalink equipment to enable it to communicate with all of the PAF's aircraft, particularly its F-16s, and not just the JF-17 Thunders.

To date the Erieye AEW&C aircraft have been able to communicate with the Western aircraft in service such as the F-16, and the Karakorum Eagle with the Chinese aircraft such as the Sino-Pak JF-17, and perhaps the F-7PG.

Cloughley does not think this has changed.

"It's unlikely that the systems will complement those of the US, but cooperation with China is more important for Pakistan," he said.

PAF officials have previously told Defense News that this was impractical and would change.

Though perhaps not as technologically advanced as the Swedish Erieye, according to Haris Khan of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank, the two types of AEW&C aircraft have worked very well together with the installation of Link 16 compatible equipment throughout the PAF's aircraft fleet.

Combined, they have effectively covered the country and much of Pakistan's maritime area of interest.

Pakistan Re-equips Squadron With AEW&C Planes | Defense News
 
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Karakorum Eagle is much appreciated in the PAF because of its superior performance as compared to its Swedish competitor ...Air Defense guys don't hold the SAAB one in high regards ...!
 
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