WS-10/Taihang is ready

[TaimiKhan]

Sorry to crash the party but the picture below is from atleast 2005, it shows a J-11 painted in regular PLAAF colors fitted with the WS-10.

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4638/ws10testing8ua.jpg

But the aircraft is not flying (meaning it may be just for ground tests), all the other pictures in the past of seeing WS-10 in the air have been mixed ones, meaning one engine is the Russian one and the other one WS-10, so that in case WS-10 fails, the Russian one can take the aircraft to safety.

But by seeing a J-11 in the sky with both engines WS-10, it speaks something else.

Hope you understand.

 

[conworldus]

Thank you. I was not trying to start an argument. I simply was not convinced that a picture would prove anything. The Chinese have not said anything about the WS-10 being put into full production, so i did not make any assumptions based on what color the plane was. Lets forget this ever happend. We can agree to disagree

From what I heard, the J-11Bs are indeed using the WS-10A, but the AL-31s are still used for J-10s. This is because J-11B is a twin engine plane, so if one engine fails, the plane can still survive. Using WS-10A on J-11B is essentially an extensive user test of reliability. If everything goes well for a few more years, J-10 will use WS-10A, too. The AL-31 is being phased out, but not gone.

 

[wangrong]

J10 use WS-10A
J11 use WS-10

 

[xinhui]

ptldM3, here are few things....

the Mean Time Between Overhaul (MTBO) for the AL-31 is 1000 hours and an assign life of 4000 hours. Given the SOP of the PLAAF, they keep extra pair of engine on-site for on-duty birds. Having a domestic engine will greatly reduce the logistic complications for the PLAAF.

In addition, the J-11B is using a new cost of composite material to reduce weight and improve finishing, that means the PLAAF can't send their birds back to russian for MTBO on the airframe either. The Russian has no exp with the Chinese composite material.

Even if the WS-10A failed to out perform the AL-31 in some areas, the increase of readiness rate would be a major boost to the PLAAF and justify their investment.

W.R.T to the Su-33, again, as a SOP, the PLA will not import anything that it will not support -- case-in-point, the PLAN's insistence to conduct the Kilo submarine overhaul in Shanghui has caused issues with the Russians, but for them, it just does not make sense to ship the kilo all the way back to Russia and thus taking it out of the duty rotation for 9 months every four years just because of routine maintenance. Until the Russian can improve on their after market support (like Boeing with their 737s) costumers will continue to prefer maintenance done at home. There must be a reason for RMAF to seek China's logistic support for their Su fleet instead of shipping back to Russia.

* note, Pakistan does maintenance of the imported Chinese birds at home.


ptldM3, I am not talking about economic, performance, geopolitics, just simple logistics.

RMAF Seeks China's Logistic Support For Sukhoi Fighters
BERNAMA - RMAF Seeks China's Logistic Support For Sukhoi Fighters

By Vincent Low

BEIJING, Nov 6 (Bernama) -- Malaysia is strengthening its military air ties with China and has sought the assistance of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) in maintenance and logistics support for Malaysia's fleet of Sukhoi SU-30 fighter jets.

Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) chief Jeneral Datuk Seri Rodzali Daud said Malaysia was also looking into acquiring some Chinese military ware.

"China had risen to become the superpower of the region and is advanced in its technology as well and our relationship with China is getting better and better," Jen Rodzali told Bernama Friday.

"They can help us in many areas, like for parts and maintenance of the SU-30. In fact, Malaysia is also looking into some of the Chinese military products."

The RMAF has 18 Russian made SU-30 fighter jets while China also has large numbers of Russian made fighter jets including the Sukhoi SU-30.

Jen Rodzali was among the air force chiefs from 34 countries invited for a two-day international forum starting today in conjunction with the PLA Air Force (PLAF) 60th anniversary.

He met his Chinese counterpart, General Xu Qiliang, at the PLAF headquarters on Thursday night.

Jen Rodzali said the RMAF would strengthen cooperation with the PLAF and in the past had participated in the exchange of personnel and regional security information.

At least six Malaysian military personnel were attached to China's Defence University and Staff College and China has agreed to send its first student to the Malaysia Defence College next year.

The RMAF delegation will attend a PLAF Air Show and Air Force equipment exhibition at Shahe Airfield near here on Saturday before visiting the PLAF Museum on Sunday.

The group will also visit Jining Airfield in eastern Shandong province on Monday to witness an exhibition of China-made fighter jets before returning to Kuala Lumpur.

-- BERNAMA

 

[illuminatus]

Russians are so greedy we refused to sell the SU-33 to the Chinese, and we are having second thoughts about the possible sale of the S-400 to Iran. BTW "lier" is spelled liar.

Dude, just take a breather and realize that the engine is a dire reality. Nothing that you claim will change this reality. Besides, I would trust the word of a Chinese. It's after all their domestic project and they know the ins and outs so to speak. Let's just leave it to that.

PS. I understand the frustration though.

 

[BlackenTheSky]

Congratulations china..!!!

 

[ironman]

Mr.lmjiao, Please don't confuse the readers man. I have divided your post for a better read.

Latest pictures show that WS-10/Taihang, the replacement of russian engine AL-31F, is ready now.

Pictures below are J-11b powerd by WS-10/Taihang. J-11b in those pictures is painted in the blue color for service in PLAAF, rather than the yellow color for testing. Those J-11b are 100% made in China now.

Picture of J-10b in the yellow color for testing, still powered by AL-31FN

Picture of J-11b in the yellow color for testing, still powered by AL-31FN, for comparision

WS-10/Taihang has finished its testing in J-11b now, this means that it may be mature enough for its test in J-10b. China will not depend on Russian Engines any more and be free to sale J-10/J-10b to anyone.

PS: Chinese words on the forth picture means Happy New Year!

So, where is the J-11 with WS-10. Is that the blue one or yellow one ?. Both J-11 pic you posted are fitted with AL-31. In WS-10 design, the convergent divergent nozzle's cantilever is visible.

 

[wangrong]

Mr.lmjiao, Please don't confuse the readers man. I have divided your post for a better read.









So, where is the J-11 with WS-10. Is that the blue one or yellow one ?. Both J-11 pic you posted are fitted with AL-31. In WS-10 design, the convergent divergent nozzle's cantilever is visible.

WS-10







AL-31



WS-10 is shorter than AL-31

 

[zagahaga]

Russians are so greedy we refused to sell the SU-33 to the Chinese, and we are having second thoughts about the possible sale of the S-400 to Iran. BTW "lier" is spelled liar.

good one but here your mistake s400? s300 correction...

 

[wangrong]

 

[illuminatus]

^^ Forget it wangrong. Even if you pull the engine out of the airframe and put it right in front of the deniers they will still disagree. Anyone with a decent pair of eyes can see the difference.

 

[lmjiao]

Sorry to crash the party but the picture below is from atleast 2005, it shows a J-11 painted in regular PLAAF colors fitted with the WS-10.

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4638/ws10testing8ua.jpg

The one in the picture was in service in PLAAF, and then be upgraded with Taihang for testing. That's not related with J-11b.

Mabe you should go and find the difference between Su-27, J-11 and J-11b. They are not the same.

 

[lmjiao]

Since i'm the only none Pakistani/Chinese to post in this thread, i'm going to assume your comment was for me.

Firstly, i'm not jealous. If the WS-10 is ready then good for China.

Secondly, i'm not buying into the fact that just because the J-11 is painted in regular PLAAF colors and fitted with the WS-10 that the WS-10 is ready for production because i have already posted a picture showing a WS-10 painted in regular PLAAF colors fitted with the WS-10 and i got that picture from a 2005 thread, this means the original posters perception is false. The WS-10 was not ready for mass production in 2005 and it is not ready for mass production now. Showing pictures of planes painted in different colors is not a vialble means of prooving anything. The day China says the WS-10 is ready is the day i will beleive it.

The one in your picture is J-11.
The one in my pictures are J-11b.

Double check before you post.

 

[lmjiao]

Thanks, but the thread was started on the 16th of september, 2005, so if he added the picture at a later date we would know. Pictures don't automaticaly update and post themselfes on various forums, so that means the op was the one and only person to post the picture and it was not uploaded automatically. If i'm missing something please explain.

Your picture is real, and I have that picture too.

However, your logic fails because the plane in your picture IS NOT J-11B.

I'm sorry to say that although Russians originally designed Su-27, they know nothing about J-11B

 

[lmjiao]

Russians are so greedy we refused to sell the SU-33 to the Chinese, and we are having second thoughts about the possible sale of the S-400 to Iran. BTW "lier" is spelled liar.

This is not related to the topic, please stop.