Wish I could end corruption, poverty the Chinese way: China model for progress, says Imran

[vi-va]

There is no doubt Deng is much better than Mao. His strongest point is being pragmatic but without losing his belief. Deng is so good that he can even forgive his own enemy like Mao who cripple his son to move on with reforms and refuse to denounce Mao when many Chinese wanted Mao to be included into Gang of four as the fifth. Deng didn't allow China collapse in tianamen square like Soviet revolution.

Iman Khan can hired a foreign advisor to help social and economic reform. Declaring asset like what all Chinese official do will be a good start. Media shall be tightly control and help state and not against state. It will help promote economic reform faster. Military must pledge full loyalty to central government.

Nikita Khrushchev abandoned the strict traditions of Lenin and Stalin. That's one of the main reason of Soviet dissolution and the major reason why Mao distrusted Khrushchev. Deng learnt the lesson from Khrushchev.

If Deng denounced Mao, Deng can't hold the political system, nor China.

 

[Dungeness]

There is no doubt Deng is much better than Mao.

hmmm, I doubt it, and many will too. Mao was a revolutionary, and Deng was a reformer. Without Mao's work, Deng had nothing to reform upon. Deng changed an era, but Mao changed a nation and its people, for good.

 

[vi-va]

hmmm, I doubt it, and many will too. Mao was a revolutionary, and Deng was a reformer. Without Mao's work, Deng had nothing to reform upon. Deng changed an era, but Mao changed a nation and its people, for good.

Agree. Deng changed the life quality of Chinese. Mao saved this nation, otherwise China may be split, like Ottoman Empire.

 

[Beast]

hmmm, I doubt it, and many will too. Mao was a revolutionary, and Deng was a reformer. Without Mao's work, Deng had nothing to reform upon. Deng changed an era, but Mao changed a nation and its people, for good.

Deng was a revolutionist. To claim he is reformer only is nonsense. He instill capitalism that spur productivity. And u can claim that as reform?

 

[vi-va]

Deng was a revolutionist. To claim he is reformer only is nonsense. He instill capitalism that spur productivity. And u can claim that as reform?

Deng adopted free market policy from capitalism. China is still run by communist. which means the national control the capitalist, not the otherwise like in US.

Free Market is NOT owned by capitalism, nor a new thing in history. There are free market back in thousands years ago.

Mao abandoned private firms, lands, wiped landlords, create national corps so that we can build our national defense industry complex, otherwise we won't have tanks, jets, railways, dams, steal industry from scratch in a short period. Most importantly nukes in 1964, H-bomb in 1967. We are the first developing country which has h-bomb. India don't have h-bomb even today.

Without Mao, China will NOT hold. Without Mao, US won't be defeated in Korean Peninsula, we will end up with US troops on our border.
Without Mao, US won't be defeated in Vietnam War. Nikon will NOT come and fix the ties with China and this gave Deng the opportunities of open up policy.

Without Mao, CCP died in counterattacks on the Fifth Encirclement and Extermination Campaign. or die during Crossing Chishui the fourth times.

Without Mao, we will end up sucking both Soviet and U.S. like an inferior country, not the counterpart of U.S.

 

[Beast]

hmmm, I doubt it, and many will too. Mao was a revolutionary, and Deng was a reformer. Without Mao's work, Deng had nothing to reform upon. Deng changed an era, but Mao changed a nation and its people, for good.

Deng was a revolutionist. I don't think he can be claim as reformer only. He instill capitalism into communism which is unique. So many communist countries collapse under the belief that democracy and freedom will save them. But not Deng. It's fit to say that without Deng. We will not have the China today. If with Mao, the China will not be the same today. China may turn into another bigger North Korea.

Deng adopted free market policy from capitalism. China is still run by communist. which means the national control the capitalist, not the otherwise like in US.

Free Market is NOT owned by capitalism, nor a new thing in history. There are free market back in thousands years ago.

Mao abandoned private firms, lands, wiped landlords, create national corps so that we can build our national defense industry complex, otherwise we won't have tanks, jets, railways, dams, steal industry from scratch in a short period. Most importantly nukes in 1964, H-bomb in 1967. We are the first developing country which has h-bomb. India don't have h-bomb even today.

Without Mao, China will NOT hold. Without Mao, US won't be defeated in Korean Peninsula, we will end up with US troops on our border.
Without Mao, US won't be defeated in Vietnam War. Nikon will NOT come and fix the ties with China and this gave Deng the opportunities of open up policy.

Without Mao, CCP died in counterattacks on the Fifth Encirclement and Extermination Campaign. or die during Crossing Chishui the fourth times.

Without Mao, we will end up sucking both Soviet and U.S. like an inferior country, not the counterpart of U.S.

You need to understand that China advance so fast is due to Soviet help in the 50s. You cannot deny the fact if Soviet help. Without Soviet help, can China build T-59 tank or F-6 fighter jets in short time? Look ,it took China so long to attain a truely capable ICBM and SSN in the 80s and 2000s. While the west has already attain much capable system than ours at the same time.

You also cannot deny the disastrous great leap in the 1955-1959 start by Maos. it makes China backward by a decade. Mao is definite credited for uniting China and his brilliant military strategy. But that cannot cover his mistakes for later part of his political career.

 

[Dungeness]

Deng was a revolutionist. To claim he is reformer only is nonsense. He instill capitalism that spur productivity. And u can claim that as reform?

It doesn't matter how you like to label them. Deng is credited for his "market reform" and privatization. Without Mao's "nationalization" in the 50's, what Deng would be able to "privatize" with? Without the industrial base and a modern social structure that Mao left with , Deng would have been a Chinese Modi.

One should never underestimate the importance of Mao's reforms in 50's, not only he nationalized all assets and paved the material foundation for Deng's market reform, but he also reformed the fundamental social structures and eradicated social ills that had plagued Chinese society thousands of years that still drag down many developing countries as of today, eg. India, though in a rather brutal fashion.

毛泽东改造了一个民族，邓小平改变了一个时代。 Mao is the single most important factor that today's China is so different from the rest of developing world, or the rest of world, for that matter.

 

[Beast]

It doesn't matter how you like to label them. Deng is credited for his "market reform" and privatization. Without Mao's "nationalization" in the 50's, what Deng would be able to "privatize" with? Without the industrial base and a modern social structure that Mao left with , Deng would have been a Chinese Modi.

One should never underestimate the importance of Mao's reforms in 50's, not only he nationalized all assets and paved the material foundation for Deng's market reform, but he also reformed the fundamental social structures and eradicated social ills that had plagued Chinese society thousands of years that still drag down many developing countries as of today, eg. India, though in a rather brutal fashion.

毛泽东改造了一个民族，邓小平改变了一个时代。 Mao is the single most important factor that today's China is so different from the rest of developing world, or the rest of world, for that matter.

While many in fact ignore his disastrous great leap and not to mention cultural revolution. Many Chinese after the collapse of gang of four want to include Mao as one of the collaborator too. Thanks to Deng, who insist Mao shall be continue credited as father of CCP father. His legacy is preserve. If not, he will end up as Lin biao history as remember by current Chinese. Do you know the whole doctrine of PLA is build up by lin biao single handedly? Without Lin bao, liberation of North China might not happened. I dare to say Lin biao is just like han xing for Liu bang. But of cos, Mao is more capable than Liu bang in military.

Yet, what we see Lin biao mostly today is traitor of CCP. The very reason PLA is so effective in the late 40s and Korea war plus sino-india war. Much credit is to him.

 

[beijingwalker]

Mao was a very controversial figure, even in China, people's opinion about him can be very divided, while Deng wasn't, people home and abroad largely him in a positive light, without Deng's seemingly crazy, audacious reform, you guys may still work some fields in some collective communes.

Mao was a great person but he made many unforgivable mistakes, he did away with high school and college education and sent every single youngster to villages in remote regions to work as farmers, and for 10 years not a single high school and college graduate was produced by this world most populous nation, the gap really hurt the country big time in coming decades, after Deng took over, the very first thing he did was to restore Gaokao and college education, without Deng, you guys could now still be next to illiterates struggling to understand Chinese instead of English.

 

[vi-va]

Deng was a revolutionist. I don't think he can be claim as reformer only. He instill capitalism into communism which is unique. So many communist countries collapse under the belief that democracy and freedom will save them. But not Deng. It's fit to say that without Deng. We will not have the China today. If with Mao, the China will not be the same today. China may turn into another bigger North Korea.


You need to understand that China advance so fast is due to Soviet help in the 50s. You cannot deny the fact if Soviet help. Without Soviet help, can China build T-59 tank or F-6 fighter jets in short time? Look ,it took China so long to attain a truely capable ICBM and SSN in the 80s and 2000s. While the west has already attain much capable system than ours at the same time.

You also cannot deny the disastrous great leap in the 1955-1959 start by Maos. it makes China backward by a decade. Mao is definite credited for uniting China and his brilliant military strategy. But that cannot cover his mistakes for later part of his political career.

兄弟，你觉得中华民族19世纪历史性的巨大挫败是由于器的问题还是道的问题？
Dude, what do you believe why China failed in 19th century?

毛主席解决了道的问题，同时解决了安全问题。没有道的问题上的解决，我们不过是一次次轮回罢了.没有精神上的革命，不过是大号的印度罢了。没有解决安全问题，就永远无法摆脱外部势力对我们的极大干扰。看看中东就知道了，整个阿拉伯民族在沉沦，没有希望，一丝一毫的希望都没有。

Chairman Mao fixed the nations mentality, as well as safety issue. Without Mao's solution, we just repeat the history. Without revolution on mentality, we will just be a bigger India. Without safety, we can't solve foreign interference. Just look at Arabs world, the whole Arabs world is sinking. literally no hope.

毛之前的历次革命，包括国民党，都不过是“中学为体，西学为用”的翻版罢了。

It doesn't matter how you like to label them. Deng is credited for his "market reform" and privatization. Without Mao's "nationalization" in the 50's, what Deng would be able to "privatize" with? Without the industrial base and a modern social structure that Mao left with , Deng would have been a Chinese Modi.

One should never underestimate the importance of Mao's reforms in 50's, not only he nationalized all assets and paved the material foundation for Deng's market reform, but he also reformed the fundamental social structures and eradicated social ills that had plagued Chinese society thousands of years that still drag down many developing countries as of today, eg. India, though in a rather brutal fashion.

毛泽东改造了一个民族，邓小平改变了一个时代。 Mao is the single most important factor that today's China is so different from the rest of developing world, or the rest of world, for that matter.

没有毛主席，中华民族伟大复兴是不可能完成的任务。你不能吃了一屉包子，然后说最后一个包子吃饱了，之前的包子都不算了。

毛的错误是手段的问题，是可以恢复的损失。毛从来都是把人民和民族的命运放在第一位。毛历史时期的错误不能都算到毛的身上，邓要往前走，只有主席背得起这个黑锅。那段历史期的正反经验教训，值得我们深思，不能简单化归统统咎于毛。

但是，没有毛，第五次反围剿就挂了，四渡赤水就挂了，张国焘这个叛徒就掌权了，延安时期就挂了，更别提后面一系列从胜利走向胜利。

那些年轻人，好好读读毛选。好好读读《论持久战》，《矛盾论》

Without Mao, there won't be CCP success. The damage in Mao's era, can be fixed.

For those youngsers, please read <Selected Works of Mao Tse-tung >

 

[beijingwalker]

兄弟，你觉得中华民族19世纪历史性的巨大挫败是由于器的问题还是道的问题？
Dude, what do you believe why China failed in 19th century?

毛主席解决了道的问题，同时解决了安全问题。没有道的问题上的解决，我们不过是一次次轮回罢了.没有精神上的革命，不过是大号的印度罢了。没有解决安全问题，就永远无法摆脱外部势力对我们的极大干扰。看看中东就知道了，整个阿拉伯民族在沉沦，没有希望，一丝一毫的希望都没有。

Chairman Mao fixed the nations mentality, as well as safety issue. Without Mao's solution, we just repeat the history. Without revolution on mentality, we will just be a bigger India. Without safety, we can't solve foreign interference. Just look at Arabs world, the whole Arabs world is sinking. literally no hope.

毛之前的历次革命，包括国民党，都不过是“中学为体，西学为用”的翻版罢了。

Mao was a great leader and changed the fate of the Chinese nation, we are on the same page on this, let make no mistake, I have great respect and admiration to him. But I have family going through all those I mentioned, that's also a fact, men make mistakes , however great they are. I just pointed out some facts. Admitting mistakes is never a weakness, Chinese government and leaders also admit mistakes we made, that helped us advance and develop to where we are now. You are right, without Mao, China could've broken into many small states like Europe and China as a united huge nation could be a thing of the past, Mao's contribution to the Chinese nation is unrivaled, but what I said about some of his mistakes are also true.

 

[Beast]

Ok, let not derail this thread about Mao and and deng but stick to pakistan.

One thing very unique about Chinese system is , even during very corrupted period of Jiang zemin. Corrupted official also need to perform and produced positive result. One great example is Liu zhijun. Father of China high speed railway. Very corrupted but also cannot deny his planning and introduction of high-speed rail into China.

In fact, the fastest growing period of China economy is during the corruption year of 2000-2012. Corruption cannot be eradict in a single day. I am wondering how this unique system can be implemented in Pakistan system.

 

[GumNaam]

Mister Prime Minister Imran Khan sir, there is only ONE person that is stopping you from adopting the Chinese model...and that person is YOURSELF!

 

[vi-va]

Mao was a great leader and changed the fate of the Chinese nation, we are on the same page on this, let make no mistake, I have great respect and admiration to him. But I have family going through all those I mentioned, that's also a fact, men make mistakes , however great they are. I just pointed out some facts. Admitting mistakes is never a weakness, Chinese government and leaders also admit mistakes we made, that helped us advance and develop to where we are now. You are right, without Mao, China could've broken into many small states like Europe and China as a united huge nation could be a thing of the past, Mao's contribution to the Chinese nation is unrivaled, but what I said about some of his mistakes are also true.

I can't agree more.

When I was young, just graduated from school, I thought I understand our history. The more I learnt, the more I am scared.

There are numerous chances that China is just a geographical terms in history.

India on the other hand was colonized as a whole, no shared border with 2 super power. No first islands chain neither.

Ok, let not derail this thread about Mao and and deng but stick to pakistan.

One thing very unique about Chinese system is , even during very corrupted period of Jiang zemin. Corrupted official also need to perform and produced positive result. One great example is Liu zhijun. Father of China high speed railway. Very corrupted but also cannot deny his planning and introduction of high-speed rail into China.

In fact, the fastest growing period of China economy is during the corruption year of 2000-2012. Corruption cannot be eradict in a single day. I am wondering how this unique system can be implemented in Pakistan system.

The fastest economy growth can't be credited all to Jiang Zemin era. One is joining WTO, the other is human capital harvest, and also due to many things was done before Jiang Zemin.

A car run fast, because you fill the gas. Who filled the gas? Mao, Deng, and all hardworking Chinese. 还有大量被放弃的下岗职工在东北的寒风中隐忍。我就来自于东北，我知道我的家庭经历了什么。换在别的国家，早就动乱了。

 

[PakSword]

Leaders come from among people. Our nation wants leaders imported from heavens.

If anyone wants to research on how not to run a country, read history of Pakistan. The first generation of Pakistanis believed on sacrifice, people who migrated from India sacrificed their lives and people who lived in Pakistan opened their hearts and sacrificed their wealth to help settle the people who came to live here. The leaders we had at that time had the similar traits.

The next generations have been comprised of the thieves, the cunning, the killers, the racists and the religious fanatics. Naturally, the leaders we have got have the similar qualities al hamdolillah.

A nation that steals taxes, electricity, gas and whatever it finds whenever it gets a little chance and then gives charity out of the stolen money and acts holy, and then expects an angel as its leader should wait till eternity.