Wing Commander Noman Ali Khan & Squadron Leader Hassan Siddqui, MIG-21Bison & SU-30 MKI slayers

[Cuirassier]

You're ruling out the possibility of misreporting, especially when it was corrected by the ISPR. If you really believe that an F-16 was downed despite no evidence, you're a victim of paranoia and low self esteem.

That is the million dollar question, who and where is the second pilot? As long as we don't release info about the second pilot, any rational thinking human will think we are hiding something and that something seems to be that the second pilot is the F-16 pilot who got shot down. The moment India put radar images, they have literally given all the info they have, without compromising their intelligence capabilities. India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.

 

[Ali_Baba]

That is the million dollar question, who and where is the second pilot? As long as we don't release info about the second pilot, any rational thinking human will think we are hiding something and that something seems to be that the second pilot is the F-16 pilot who got shot down. The moment India put radar images, they have literally given all the info they have, without compromising their intelligence capabilities. India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.

This is complete and utter rubbish...... trully garbage level attempt at propagating a false Indian narrative.

 

[Khanivore]

That is the million dollar question, who and where is the second pilot? As long as we don't release info about the second pilot, any rational thinking human will think we are hiding something and that something seems to be that the second pilot is the F-16 pilot who got shot down. The moment India put radar images, they have literally given all the info they have, without compromising their intelligence capabilities. India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.

I can't believe I just read this....

 

[Enigma SIG]

That is the million dollar question, who and where is the second pilot? As long as we don't release info about the second pilot, any rational thinking human will think we are hiding something and that something seems to be that the second pilot is the F-16 pilot who got shot down. The moment India put radar images, they have literally given all the info they have, without compromising their intelligence capabilities. India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.

Indian masquerading as a Pakistani?

 

[waz]

India cannot give proof of wreckage because the wreckage is in our territory. The only thing they have is radar images which they have given out. Now the ball is in our court. If we don't give out info of the second pilot, we have lost the F-16 battle.

You do realise that had there been any wreckage it would have been videoed, had photos taken of it and the locals in AJK would have been on it like a shot. The fact they were there before the military was, regarding the Mig-21 is telling. There simply is no wreckage and it's time to put this story to bed.
The radar images mean squat, as many experts outside the Pak/Ind scenario have pointed out.
It's also no coincidence that a IAF plane crashed in Jammu at the time of the engagement, what about that?

 

[Riaz Hussain]

they can verily access the satellite images ...

Satellite Images are low resolution images. And if the crash happened near tree cover, then nothing will be visible.
I mean just release the damn info about the second pilot, WTF is the delay?

This is complete and utter rubbish...... trully garbage level attempt at propagating a false Indian narrative.

Then lets prove it is false. Lets release the info about the second pilot. Why are we scared?

You're ruling out the possibility of misreporting, especially when it was corrected by the ISPR. If you really believe that an F-16 was downed despite no evidence, you're a victim of paranoia and low self esteem.

You do not go to the media and even give SPECIFIC details that the pilot is injured and is in the hospital!! And following that up with the PM saying the same as well.

See all the theories floating around that
# the pilot is israeli
# its not being released because it will cause a war

and what not rubbish! lets release the info about second pilot and lets be done with it!!

I mean are we brain damaged? No airforce in the entire world has shot down a Su-27 family of fighters. NO ONE HA SHOT DOWN!! PAF IS THE FIRST AIRFORCE IN THE WORLD TO SHOOT DOWN A FLANKER!! And that too an Advanced Super Flanker with a PESA radar and with other western avionics. DO YOU EVEN REALIZE THE GOLD MINE WE ARE SITTING ON? IF WE RELEASE THE INFO OF THE SECOND PILOT, WE WILL BE REMEMBERED THROUGHOUT HISTORY AS THE FIRST AIRFORCE ON THIS PLANET TO EVER SHOOT DOWN A SUPER FLANKER. BUT WE ARE NOT RELEASING THE SECOND PILOT INFO!
No one in the right mind would pass up on an opportunity like this. No one is this stupid to pass up on an opportunity like this. Either we release the info about the second pilot, or we screwed up big time losing the first ever F-16 in an air-air kill that too to an 1955 design MiG-21!

 

[Riddick]

@Riaz Hussain its hard to hide Indian in yourself isnt it lol

 

[Riaz Hussain]

You do realise that had there been any wreckage it would have been videoed, had photos taken of it and the locals in AJK would have been on it like a shot. The fact they were there before the military was regarding the Mig-21 is telling. There simply is no wreckage and it's time to put this story to bed.
The radar images mean squat, as many experts outside the Pak/Ind scenario have pointed out.

Kills are not always assigned only when there are wreakages found. Kills are also awarded with radar images and pilot and ground witness testimony. If kills are only awarded with only gun cam and wreakages then more than half the kills throughout history would have to be taken off. And there are lots of no mans land in that area.
Lets release the second pilot info! Or we need to get a clarification on why the DGISPR and the PM mis-reported! And also following up that the second pilot dies in the hospital! Who was in the hospital? Who gave that into about the pilot in the hospital. We need clarity.

@Riaz Hussain its hard to hide Indian in yourself isnt it lol

Its called critical thinking. Don't believe every thing anyone says. Question it.

 

[Ahassan]

Satellite Images are low resolution images. And if the crash happened near tree cover, then nothing will be visible.
I mean just release the damn info about the second pilot, WTF is the delay?


Then lets prove it is false. Lets release the info about the second pilot. Why are we scared?


You do not go to the media and even give SPECIFIC details that the pilot is injured and is in the hospital!! And following that up with the PM saying the same as well.

See all the theories floating around that
# the pilot is israeli
# its not being released because it will cause a war

and what not rubbish! lets release the info about second pilot and lets be done with it!!

I mean are we brain damaged? No airforce in the entire world has shot down a Su-27 family of fighters. NO ONE HA SHOT DOWN!! PAF IS THE FIRST AIRFORCE IN THE WORLD TO SHOOT DOWN A FLANKER!! And that too an Advanced Super Flanker with a PESA radar and with other western avionics. DO YOU EVEN REALIZE THE GOLD MINE WE ARE SITTING ON? IF WE RELEASE THE INFO OF THE SECOND PILOT, WE WILL BE REMEMBERED THROUGHOUT HISTORY AS THE FIRST AIRFORCE ON THIS PLANET TO EVER SHOOT DOWN A SUPER FLANKER. BUT WE ARE NOT RELEASING THE SECOND PILOT INFO!
No one in the right mind would pass up on an opportunity like this. No one is this stupid to pass up on an opportunity like this. Either we release the info about the second pilot, or we screwed up big time losing the first ever F-16 in an air-air kill that too to an 1955 design MiG-21!

idk if you know how satellite images work .... but if there was any wreckage they would have shown even the small parts of wreckage ... or even the burnt field....

 

[Riddick]

so you want to say americans lied when they counted Pak F16s ?

 

[waz]

Kills are not always assigned only when there are wreakages found. Kills are also awarded with radar images and pilot and ground witness testimony. If kills are only awarded with only gun cam and wreakages then more than half the kills throughout history would have to be taken off. And there are lots of no mans land in that area.
Lets release the second pilot info! Or we need to get a clarification on why the DGISPR and the PM mis-reported! And also following up that the second pilot dies in the hospital! Who was in the hospital? Who gave that into about the pilot in the hospital. We need clarity.

You need to first look at the area of operations, wreckage would have been found on the VERY DAY of that engagement like it was with the Mig-21. The area is way too small and even the IAF images show the range of operations over the said area before the F-16 'disappeared'. There's no hiding that.
Yes all kills don't need wreckage but that is a sub point, considering the parameters you outlined from other conflicts are simply not here, the most obvious one being that these engagements did not happen in 'no mans land'.
The second pilot, if he's around is in India, you're never going to get it. That's why I believe the whole thing should have ended with the fact that the Mig went down and so did their chopper.
As for the rest, misreporting happens in virtually every conflict and I can bring up literally hundreds of examples. Confusion was pretty much evident during the opening stages of the conflict hence all the contradictory reports.
The fact remains that no F-16 went down, nor did any Pakistani pilot, and that's been confirmed by numerous third party entities.

 

[Cuirassier]

Satellite Images are low resolution images. And if the crash happened near tree cover, then nothing will be visible.
I mean just release the damn info about the second pilot, WTF is the delay?


Then lets prove it is false. Lets release the info about the second pilot. Why are we scared?


You do not go to the media and even give SPECIFIC details that the pilot is injured and is in the hospital!! And following that up with the PM saying the same as well.

See all the theories floating around that
# the pilot is israeli
# its not being released because it will cause a war

and what not rubbish! lets release the info about second pilot and lets be done with it!!

I mean are we brain damaged? No airforce in the entire world has shot down a Su-27 family of fighters. NO ONE HA SHOT DOWN!! PAF IS THE FIRST AIRFORCE IN THE WORLD TO SHOOT DOWN A FLANKER!! And that too an Advanced Super Flanker with a PESA radar and with other western avionics. DO YOU EVEN REALIZE THE GOLD MINE WE ARE SITTING ON? IF WE RELEASE THE INFO OF THE SECOND PILOT, WE WILL BE REMEMBERED THROUGHOUT HISTORY AS THE FIRST AIRFORCE ON THIS PLANET TO EVER SHOOT DOWN A SUPER FLANKER. BUT WE ARE NOT RELEASING THE SECOND PILOT INFO!
No one in the right mind would pass up on an opportunity like this. No one is this stupid to pass up on an opportunity like this. Either we release the info about the second pilot, or we screwed up big time losing the first ever F-16 in an air-air kill that too to an 1955 design MiG-21!

What even man, no missile was fired by the MiG-21, neither was there any sighting of a second jet's remains, nor any pilot found in the hospital. PAF is much more professional than any other armed forces branch and your claim of them being dishonest in this case is false. Too much conspiracy theories make you crazy.

 

[majid mehmood]

Satellite Images are low resolution images. And if the crash happened near tree cover, then nothing will be visible.
I mean just release the damn info about the second pilot, WTF is the delay?

satellite images are not low resolution they are quite high and even if it was hidden under a trees, fire from a plane could be easily geolocated by thermal imaging
Looking at your messages you look like a deluded Indian

 

[TheTallGuy]

As i am able to understand - 1 x aircraft immediately crashed after take off from Srinager AFB pilot Ejected. Helicopter(MI-17V5) take off to collect the pilot able to do so coming back to Srinager AFB gets shotdown by IAF SAMs deployed. 1 x MiG-21Bison(Abhinandan) makes it all the way to LOC with Su-30MKI cover, Mirage 2000i that were CAPing alos couldnt do much ..1 x MiG-21BISON is shotdown as it cross LOC. pilot is captured. Now Su-30MKI Formation of 2 aircraft which were flying very High(35-40K) also got engaged. 1 x Su-30MKI gets hit crashes inside IOK. crew did eject.one was injured and one was Ok one landed on Indian Side. Injured pilot landed in Pakistan Side. which later died. so there is no other wreckage on Pakistani Side.

Now Why DG ISPR did tell this much later may be 4th Mar or 6th Mar in interview the 2 x pilot(crew) is Dead. Why should be doubts about it. One thing is sure SU-30MKI is dead! sure as sun rises daily!

Everything will be open after April-19. i guess...

 

[waz]

Its the LOC, its dotted with no-mans land with steep cliffs and army only restricted areas.
Releasing an official statement and going back on it is a big deal. DGISPR and the Prime Minister should have given clarification! Without clarification, it all looks very very fishy. If the info about the pilot in the hospital is unconfirmed, then we should have said "we have initial reports of a second pilot in a hospital, we will provide you with additional details when we confirm the same", but nooo we went ahead and categorically confirmed that "we have a second pilot in the CMH". THAT IS A BIG DEAL! That was a confirmed info. Since the pilot is heavily injured and presumably unconscious we might have assumed he was one of theirs, is the fear lurking in every ones mind.

My family live near the LOC and AJK is my ancestral land. The people can go pretty much anywhere, and there's no real 'no mans land', the cliffs are regularly climbed by herders dude.... You're also ignoring the fact that the people got there before the army did regarding the Mig!
The reports were confusion and it's simple to understand this and such events have occurred at the highest levels in other countries e.g. US recent conflicts.
There's no fear here and people are not even speculating anymore about this due to the complete absence of proof of any sort. When you have key Indian allies such as Christine Fair who does have access to high level military attaches also rubbishing Indian claims, you need to ask yourself why you're still going on about it.