Widespread criticism over rationale for new law to ‘protect’ Islam

[Jazzbot]

and?
You can preach what ever you want.
Go and preach that what they preach is wrong.

There is a red line of everything and Islam has drawn a red line around these things as well. You cannot openly abuse companions of Prophet or his wives, period.

Why does your God have such thin skin and will get his feeling hurt so quickly?

My God is not that weak.

LOL that killed the argument for me. Cheers.

 

[Verve]

Is your God so weak that you need need to make laws so people don't hurt his feelings?
My God is not that weak.
My God is that of the prophet, who didn't lift a finger against the absolute worst abuse hurled at him by the people in Mecca.
My God is the one of peace, mercy and patience.

Stop your twisting!

Pakistan is not a secular or a liberal state. State religion is Islam and only state has the right to decide what can and can't be written/said in reference to Islam.

This law removes the free hand given to all sects to spew hate and venom against each other. State decides, all obey. That's everywhere.

THIS
This is what people don't understand.

Once you start banning things, it is only a matter of time until it starts to affect the proponents as well.

For me it's frustrating how people can't see this.

Your house is on fire and you are bragging that your room is nice and warm... eventually the flames will get you too.
Look at the countless examples in history.

And it's all good. All sects need to behave within a boundary! All sects have been created for power so neutralising them over time will only bring positive. Initial resistance is expected and will be dealt with.

Hence all Quran should be with translation only. Sects don't like Quran with translation, their chooran doesn't sell otherwise.

 

[Shackleford]

There is a red line of everything and Islam has drawn a red line around these things as well. You cannot openly abuse companions of Prophet or his wives, period.

Can you site the verse in the Quran that says that?
If not in the Quran, then the weaker secondary source of Authentic hadith? (be sure to cite the madhab the hadith belong to as some madhab regard some hadith as strong, while others will say they are weak)

LOL that killed the argument for me. Cheers.

I am sorry, but I am an educated person and the first thing they teach you in university is to back up your arguments.
You clearly cannot so you are backing out.
no shame in it, but I hope you realize that just because you strongly feel something, does not mean it should be forced on to others.

 

[Areesh]

I act the way I do because I have an education and realize I don't live in the middle ages where the cure for diseases was to eat mercury.

Is your God so weak that you need need to make laws so people don't hurt his feelings?
My God is not that weak.
My God is that of the prophet, who didn't lift a finger against the absolute worst abuse hurled at him by the people in Mecca.
My God is the one of peace, mercy and patience.

Also please address my point point of hypocrisy in Pakistani society.
Last I checked batcha bazi was haram.
stealing, in the form of corruption, was haram
marrying children against their will was haram.

please address this point. Are the things I mentioned not haram?
If they are, why is the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC of PAKISTAN not taking action against them?
After all, Islam is in danger right?


and?
You can preach what ever you want.
Go and preach that what they preach is wrong.
Why does your God have such thin skin and will get his feeling hurt so quickly?

My God is not that weak.


See my comment above


THIS
This is what people don't understand.

Once you start banning things, it is only a matter of time until it starts to affect the proponents as well.

For me it's frustrating how people can't see this.

Your house is on fire and you are bragging that your room is nice and warm... eventually the flames will get you too.
Look at the countless examples in history.



I am objecting to this bill as a non Shia on the bases that it violates fundamental human rights, and rights that are enshrined in Sharia as well.

You are mixing things

This bill doesn't stop interfaith dialogue. This bill is to stop hate speech between Muslim sects

You have a problem with that? How is stopping hate speech wrong?

 

[Shackleford]

Stop your twisting!

Pakistan is not a secular or a liberal state. State religion is Islam and only state has the right to say what can and can't be written/said in reference to Islam.

This law removes the free hand given to all sects to spew hate and venom against each other. State decides, all obey. That's everywhere.



And it's all good. All sects need to behave within a boundary! All sects have been created for power so neutralising them over time will only bring positive. Initial resistance is expected and will be dealt with.

Hence all Quran should be with translation only. Sects don't like Quran with translation, their chooran doesn't sell otherwise.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but you mean the state that is made of politicians what we all agree are corrupt to the core?
If we lived in a developed country with proper rule of law, I could maybe agree with you, but you and I both know how corrupt and untrustworthy the Pakistani politicians are.. but now you think they are 100% angels?

 

[Areesh]

Can you site the verse in the Quran that says that?

Excuse me??

Are you really asking us to provide you for verses from Quran for not abusing companions and family of the Prophet (saw)?

Did I read that correctly?

 

[Shackleford]

You are mixing things

This bill doesn't stop interfaith dialogue. This bill is to stop hate speech between Muslim sects

You have a problem with that? How is stopping hate speech wrong?

Nothing wrong with stopping hate speech, Problem is that Pakistan has a history of labeling anything as hate speech.

Tell me, how much hate speak did poor Asia Bibi spew when she "hurt God" so much that we had to lock her up for nearly a decade in isolation?

Excuse me??

Are you really asking us to provide you for verses from Quran for not abusing companions and family of the Prophet (saw)?

Did I read that correctly?

is that wrong?
Asking for proof of claims?
Am I in the wrong place?
I mean I can start making things up with no evidence too and then call people crazy for not believing me.

 

[Areesh]

Nothing wrong with stopping hate speech, Problem is that Pakistan has a history of labeling anything as hate speech.

Tell me, how much hate speak did poor Asia Bibi spew when she "hurt God" so much that we had to lock her up for nearly a decade in isolation?

Pakistan isn't labeling anything as hate speech. It is labeling hate speech as hate speech as per this bill

In asia bibi case yes it took a decade to get her out. But then same happens in all the other cases in Pakistani judiciary. There are cases pending many decades in Pakistani judiciary

 

[Verve]

I don't mean to sound condescending, but you mean the state that is made of politicians what we all agree are corrupt to the core?
If we lived in a developed country with proper rule of law, I could maybe agree with you, but you and I both know how corrupt and untrustworthy the Pakistani politicians are.. but now you think they are 100% angels?

So that's your argument for not bringing about any change for better?

 

[Areesh]

is that wrong?
Asking for proof of claims?
Am I in the wrong place?
I mean I can start making things up with no evidence too and then call people crazy for not believing me.

More than wrong it is stupid

You seriously think Quran would be asking us to abuse companions and family of the Prophet (saw)?

And you need a verse from quran to stop doing that?

 

[Shackleford]

So that's your argument for not bringing about any change for better?

My argument is that once you start restricting speech the only place it will ever end is in bad places.

I have a better idea.
Instead of trying to force people to live in the middle ages, why don't we give them a proper education with the ability to think critically so that they don't fall into the traps of bigotry and hatred due to some mullah spewing nonsense.

Problem with that plan is that it's too hard, and we Pakistanis are known to always take the easy route... so lets take away human rights instead of providing basic services of a functioning society.

 

[Verve]

My argument is that once you start restricting speech the only place it will ever end is in bad places.

I have a better idea.
Instead of trying to force people to live in the middle ages, why don't we give them a proper education with the ability to think critically so that they don't fall into the traps of bigotry and hatred due to some mullah spewing nonsense.

Problem with that plan is that it's too hard, and we Pakistanis are known to always take the easy route... so lets take away human rights instead of providing basic services of a functioning society.

Oh please, quit this 'free for all' BS! No country allows ultimate freedom of speech! Not even the one you are living in.

Are you a secular, liberal or shia or what? At least be open about what you are so that we can understand where exactly you are coming from.

 

[Shackleford]

Pakistan isn't labeling anything as hate speech. It is labeling hate speech as hate speech as per this bill

In asia bibi case yes it took a decade to get her out. But then same happens in all the other cases in Pakistani judiciary. There are cases pending many decades in Pakistani judiciary

blob is blob, what is a blob? well, its a blob!

I am sorry, but such recursive definition of hate speech is not only really bad, but it basically gives unlimited powers to the corrupt state to do whatever it wants with you. Just like it did with Asia Bibi.

.....
it boggles my mind that your defense of a terrible law and judicial system is not "yeah, it's bad, lets fix it"
no, your defense is "yeah, other people are going through equal amounts of injustice"

Keep in mind, injustice is MASSIVE sin in Islam.
The same people who think God is so week that they need to protect him, also can't seem to follow his basic commandments.
There is a word for people like these... hy.. hyp... hypo... something like that.

Also, no one has still answered my point about all the other haram things that happen in Pakistan but people here seem to be okay with since... well I guess they have a connection to God and God told them that free speech is haram while batcha bazi, corruption, murder, stealing, etc are all halal now.
Man.. I wish I had such a connection with God where he could tell me that all the things I don't like are now haram and all the things I don't care about, like batcha bazi, are now halal.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1286750883787743233

This.


These kanjars can go to any length to create anarchy in the country when they feel the accountability is coming their way. Proper snakes these fkers are, specially at a time, when our country do not need any non sense because things around us and in the region are moving in our favour.

 

[Shackleford]

Oh please, quit this 'free for all' BS! No country allows ultimate freedom of speech! Not even the one you are living in.

Are you a secular, liberal or shia or what? At least be open about what you are so that we can understand where exactly you are coming from.

Who said "ultimate freedom of speech?"

Moving the goalposts
"Moving the goalposts (or shifting the goalposts) is a metaphor, derived from goal-based sports, that means to change the criterion (goal) of a process or competition while it is still in progress, in such a way that the new goal offers one side an advantage or disadvantage.[1]"


If believing in the prophet, his tolerance for his worst haters, his mercy and his message of seeking knowledge makes me a liberal, then I am liberal AF!

The funny thing is that Quran itself says to seek knowledge.
But people here don't want to follow the parts of the Quran they don't like.
Its much better to just pretend God needs saving and they will the superman to God.

More than wrong it is stupid

You seriously think Quran would be asking us to abuse companions and family of the Prophet (saw)?

And you need a verse from quran to stop doing that?

okay, I think we are at a fundamental impasse.
I work on evidence and knowledge and you work on your own feelings.

The only thing I can say to God when I face him is that I am a flawed person but I tried my best to follow ALL your words.

I hope you can say the same, but judging from our discussion I really don't think you can.