Why is Pakistan lagging behind in SAM and ABM technology?

[Peregrine]

So can someone please shed light on which SAMs protect Pakistani cities and nuclear installations currently?

HI,
i think since SPADA has medium range so most probably they are for protection of strategic assets like nuclear installations. not sure what kind of long range SAMS Pakistan has

 

[RameeX Xaved]

Hi, sorry for going off topic, but can we get a simily like and of Turkey aswell?
thanks..

 

[su-47]

I have also wondered this question for quite sometime.

And i have come to the conclusion that PAF doesn't believe in SAMs.

I mean PAF preffers fighters to defend air Space rather than SAMs.

This is the only explanation that can be derived from the lack of PAF enthusiasm for SAMs.

It is not a lack of belief is SAM alone. It is also the need for offensive air power.

Pakistan's main rival, India, has a very large army, with a large number of armored and mechanized divisions. SAMs will provide air defence, but can't counter the massive threat the Indian army poses. While the Pakistani army is very capable and able to defend against Indian ground attack, they will be outnumbered an will need air support.

SAMs are also useless against the other large Indian military arm, the Indian Navy, which is rapidly expanding into a blue water navy capable of power projection, and if need be, blockading Pakistani waters. The PN is trying to plug the gap by acquiring submarines, but no real deal has materialized yet, and at present, the Indian Navy is much larger and much more capable of offensive policy than PN.

The most effective way to counter the air and sea threat is to assert air dominance. SAMs can never do that. So Pakistan needs aircraft. And if you look at recent Pakistani aircraft procurement list, most have been multi role aircraft capable of engaging air and ground targets.

Many members have said that PAF has a role of air denial, but that is not really true. An air force has to counter the enemy's army, navy and air force, not just the enemy air force.

Pakistan's defence budget is limited. So the amount available has to be spent wisely. SAMs maybe less expensive than aircraft, but they don't offer any protection against Indian ground and naval forces. Also, some SAMs have proven ineffective in the past, like in Iraq war. So Pakistan needs to invest in aircraft.

 

[below_freezing]

Dude. The details of the Chinese test conducted in January are not clear. And it will only be stupid to assume that China has successfully intercepted an ICBM, unless something concrete comes out.

The Indian ABM programme is very transperent, failure or success it is well publicised. Scores of tests of the Indian ABM programme have been a success and they are open for anyone to verify, unlike the Chinese tests of which nothing can be said with certanity.

Unless more details emerge, i can safely say that India is ahead in ABM tech. You guys have conducted a single test, we have conducted scores of successful tests. By that logic alone i have more confidence in the maturity & reliability of Indias ABM programme.

what do you mean it's not confirmed? the US said there was an exoatmospheric collision over chinese airspace from 2 geographically separate missile launches detected by their spy satellites.

we don't say anything, we let the sensors and wreckage do our talking for us.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Yes at the moment pakistan lacks behind in SAM and ABM system.
Slowly the gaps will be filled.
From my top of head. PAF will field SPADA-2000 plus system which by no means is a "cr@p" SAM just because india does not posses it. It is capable of shooting down Cruise Missiles, rotor/fixed wing aircrafts and air to ground missiles/bombs. This system will be installed in important installations. The navy relies on chinese short rang missiles on its 3 frigates which is just peanuts. Plans are to accquire 6 OHP frigates which will be upgraded with couple of important systems such as upgraded MK-13 launching system with 40 round magazine which then will be capable of firing 8 Harpoon block II and 32 SM-2 medium long range SAM system with over 70 km range. By no means its a "CR2P" missile because india does not posses it. SM-2 is installed in modern frigates, destroyers, and cruisers which provides a fleet defence cover against cruise missiles, AShM and air crafts. Navy also plans to induct Chinese new class frigates which may be installed with chinese naval variant of S-300.
I am not sure about army plans.

SM-2

SPADA-2000

 

[Renegade]

what do you mean it's not confirmed? the US said there was an exoatmospheric collision over chinese airspace from 2 geographically separate missile launches detected by their spy satellites.

we don't say anything, we let the sensors and wreckage do our talking for us.

When did i say that the Chinese test was not comfirmed. Read my post again, i only said that the details of the test are not clear. Dude, read carefully. I say something and you take another meaning out of it. This will lead to unnecessary misunderatnding & flaming.

Nevertheless, the details of the test are not clear. So the exact extent of Chinas capabilities are not yet known. And this was Chinas first test, while we in India have conducted a few successful tests already.

 

[mughaljee]

ABM is too expensive and unnecessary in the Pakistan's situation for now.

Will some one share, why unnecessary ?

 

[Mercenary]

Pakistan has low altitude and medium altitude missiles but not high altitude missiles.

We need atleast 20-30 Batteries of high altitude missiles to guard sensitive sites such as Air Bases, cities, nuclear facilities, etc.

Russia hates Pakistan so we can forget about getting S-300. We need HQ-9, the reverse engineered Chinese System.

30 of these bad boys in Pakistan will give India nightmares just as S-300 in Iran is giving Israel nightmares.

 

[Renegade]

Pakistan has low altitude and medium altitude missiles but not high altitude missiles.

We need atleast 20-30 Batteries of high altitude missiles to guard sensitive sites such as Air Bases, cities, nuclear facilities, etc.

Russia hates Pakistan so we can forget about getting S-300. We need HQ-9, the reverse engineered Chinese System.

30 of these bad boys in Pakistan will give India nightmares just as S-300 in Iran is giving Israel nightmares.

Just to clarify. The S-300 is not giving the Israelis nigntmares, i would say that it is causing a irritaion in their plans. Though the S-300 is a very potent system the limited deployment in Iran will only mean that the Israelis will suffer some losses. Which they dont want to, so they are lobbying with Russia not to sell these systems to Iran. Surprisingly they have been rather successful in stalling the delivery of these systems till date.

Isreal remains very capable of hitting Iranian nuclear sites. The presence of the S-300 many fold increases the probability of a few Israeli losses. Thats certainly no nightmare for Isreal, but it is for Iran.

 

[Abdussamad]

Well, he seems to be incorrect. When a missile is launched, it will be the radar to detect that missile and anti-ballistic missile systems are automated. ie a person doesn't have to activate it. As soon as the radar detects an incoming missile, the ABM would be launched. So it doesn't matter if the hostile missile takes 4 min or 10 min. The interceptor missile would be launched within seconds of detection of missile.

So it is vital to invest in ABM systems. It is one of the highest priorities of armies worldwide.

No the scientist was correct. The mistake was on the poster bc040400065's part. The scientist in question said that any missiles launched by india would reach Pakistan with 7-10 SECONDS not minutes. bc040400065 misquoted him!

He also mentioned that the situation was different when it came to the US and russia because there they have 15-20 minutes to react.

I also remember seeing a Pakistani general say something similar in an express tv talk show about the post mumbai attacks situation. His point was that things could get ugly very very fast.

So perhaps an ABM is worthless because the time to react is too short?

 

[gambit]

No the scientist was correct. The mistake was on the poster bc040400065's part. The scientist in question said that any missiles launched by india would reach Pakistan with 7-10 SECONDS not minutes. bc040400065 misquoted him!

He also mentioned that the situation was different when it came to the US and russia because there they have 15-20 minutes to react.

I also remember seeing a Pakistani general say something similar in an express tv talk show about the post mumbai attacks situation. His point was that things could get ugly very very fast.

So perhaps an ABM is worthless because the time to react is too short?

There is no 'perhaps' about it. Ground radar detection of ballistic missiles is usually when the missile itself is already in pieces and the warhead, or the bus that carries multiple warheads, are at apogee, the maximum altitude. Then the warhead begins its descent. The shorter the distance between the two points: launch and target, the less response time for the defender precisely because I detect the threat at half the total transit time of said threat.

Or let me put it another way: When the enemy launch his ballistic missile, that is a threat. It does not matter if if I am aware of said threat. If anything, the enemy would prefer that I am unaware of said threat. So by the time I detect his missile at apogee, that maximum altitude is the halfway travel point for that threat. If I position my radar closer to his territory without violating his border, may be I can gain a few more seconds or even minutes, but that repositioning is another point for discussion fraught with geographical obstacles and may be political constraints. I will leave that to the Pakistani members as they are more knowledgeable than anyone else regarding their homeland.

 

[mughaljee]

Pakistan has low altitude and medium altitude missiles but not high altitude missiles.

We need atleast 20-30 Batteries of high altitude missiles to guard sensitive sites such as Air Bases, cities, nuclear facilities, etc.

what is low and high altitude? Briefly Please.

 

[war&peace]

Pakistan had Anza SAM program but I haven't heard any about any new development and there is a lot of fog around Anza MK III system with different sources claiming different range and roles. However planners and strategists need to pay attention to SAM program.

 

[dadeechi]

Pakistani defense planners are efficient, pragmatic and ingenious. Hence they concluded that

You do not need unreliable ABMs but excellent missiles like RAAD, NASR & BABUR

You do not need sitting duck aircraft carriers but silent killers in AIP submarines

You do not need huge conventional army but a motivated unconventional force.

 

[thrilainmanila]

pakistan isn't israel and india isn't some arab country, the disparity in power is in indias favor, they have the money,means and resources to upgrade there defence requirements to the point where it sets a country like pakistan 20 years back for example india purchased the S300 in 1995 21 years have passed and there isn't any SAM system currently in place which is comparable to this, india is now set on buying the S400s, Its my conclusion that pakistan conventionally will never be able to defend itself against india, for the simple reason that they don't have the money, means, resources, technical ability, research facilities. The worst type of enemy you can face is an enemy that has both qualitative and quantitative advantages, pakistan doesn't have 1 of these advantages viza vi india.
hence the idea of introducing tactical battlefield nuclear missiles, and upgraded BMs, its cheaper and puts things in check.
does this mean pakistan is weak no, the armed forces is still well trained, profesional and well respected in the world but this means extreemly little against a conventional juggernaut armed force which is constantly buying modern weapons and upgrading its systems.