Why does our Navy fail so horribly?

[LeGenD]

@ Rajputana

Good information. However, their is more to this story; the Chinese angle.

According to the State Department historian, 'When the fighting developed, the Nixon administration tilted toward Pakistan. The tilt involved the dispatch of the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise to the Bay of Bengal to try to intimidate the Indian government. It also involved encouraging China to make military moves to achieve the same end, and an assurance to China that if China menaced India and the Soviet Union moved against China in support of India, the United States would protect China from the Soviet Union. China chose not to menace India, and the crisis on the subcontinent ended without a confrontation between the United States and the Soviet Union.'

Source: 1971 War: How the US tried to corner India

 

[The SC]

If you really think that we have military secrets through which we can hit continental United States and Gen Kiyani has all the plans laid out to sort out the US in case we need to, than my friend we are both smoking something we should not be smoking. I think LeGenD has dispassionately explained our position vis a vis US in a comprehensive and cogent manner and I fully agree with him and Niaz on this.

The problem is handling the truth. PA, PAF, & PN will always say that they can handle any eventuality. That is and should be their standard response. But should we take everything hook line and sinker?

Pakistani Military is postured primarily to handle incursion from India, and not from US, China etc. We need to be realistic in our assessments and do a quick cost/benefit analysis on going to war with US.

What would be the response of US when going to war with a regional nuclear power??? When they went into Iraq -- they went half cocked. Would they do that with us a nuclear power?

They have in-theater troops; they would not risk a punitive strike on those troops by PAF/PA. So the response would be overwhelming strike and total destruction of our war fighting capability. After all, they will do everything in their power to save the average GI Joe from Sioux Falls, S. Dakota stationed in Kandahar from coming in harm’s way.

There are ways to get out of this coercion and so called hegemonic designs of US. We are not fully exploring them. In fact we are naive to think that there is such a thing as a equal relationship of unequal’s! And that there are "Brotherly” relationships. Those things went out of fashion after the end of cold war, and practical dismantling of both the Non-aligned movement and the so called "Islamic Block." The last nail in the coffin was the dismemberment of USSR -- the world became uni-polar and we had a huge hand in making it so. As someone mentioned in one of their posts, we had short term gains but colossal looses in the long term from our little stint as an Imperial Power.

The first call was not made to Pakistan, but to KSA! They were out of the equation and we lost our line backer (Our "get out of Jail Free" card) in the first hour of the making of the New World Order. Even if we wanted to have second thoughts on our response to Colin Powell, our spiritual and financial backer was out of the game.

On top of that India was "Gyrating her hips in front of Uncle Sam to let her do the dirty work for them and open a corridor from Sialkot to Torkham for US troops" (Said by the then US CG in KHI - in a closed staff meeting).

Let us be rational here and be practical. We might not like the odds against us but then we do not live in a perfect world and we have not helped ourselves in making one. We love to cite examples of Iran, Syria, N. Korea but then are we prepared to make those sacrifices? I think not

As far as the Islamic block, less said the better. We are on our own -- have been on our own for last two decades. We have done this to ourselves, big time and now there is a strong and determined desire in this nation of pure to go for "Death by JoJo!!"

On a lighter note US would not have to go to IMF, they would just open up their visa for a month and half the nation would migrate ;-) On a serious note, this is where the problem lies; we have not invested in the development of this country.

Food for thought, just think if there was no 1965 war where would we be today and what was the long term benefit of that war to us as a nation?????

What you are saying is a bit far from reality, you think that the US can come near Pakistan, destroy its war machine and take a hike, than you are thinking on a street level not geopolitics.
Between having some capacity and the geopolitical realities of this world there is an ocean of possibilities and restraints.
So if you are smoking something, please do not put me with you in that regard.
I told your friends how realistic they were. But other facts and realities exist in the real world that makes the speculations about the US capacities and their use in actual war scenarios nothing more than fictional, unless the US becomes completely irrational and starts thinking like your "highly rational friends".
can you re-read my post with rationality, I mean the whole post not just about Pakistan and try to think it over many times? please.
Prior to the nuclear tests, did you or anyone else knew that Pakistan had that capacity!?

 

[The SC]

This is also not an assumption. USA has deployed several layers of maritime surveillance technologies in Pacific and Atlantic oceans to monitor all kinds of naval vessels and natural phenomenon.

Qing class submarines have been designed to fire cruise missiles. What this means is that these submarines will have to get very close to continental US to strike. This is extremely risky maneuver and the submarines will end up getting detected and destroyed on short notice.

The US could not detect Russian "Acula" Nuclear submarines near its shores:
One would think that the Cold War ended a long time ago, but ask the Pentagon officials who are very concerned about the two Russian nuclear-powered Akula-class attack submarines now patrolling the US East Coast.

Akulas—the NATO designation for the Project 971 Shchuka-B Soviet Submarine—are some of the deadliest sea weapons in existence...These things can launch up to forty torpedoes, mines, and missiles—the later using a separate tube for surface launch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/world/05patrol.html?_r=2&emc=eta1

 

[LeGenD]

The US could not detect Russian "Acula" Nuclear submarines near its shores:
One would think that the Cold War ended a long time ago, but ask the Pentagon officials who are very concerned about the two Russian nuclear-powered Akula-class attack submarines now patrolling the US East Coast.

Akulas—the NATO designation for the Project 971 Shchuka-B Soviet Submarine—are some of the deadliest sea weapons in existence...These things can launch up to forty torpedoes, mines, and missiles—the later using a separate tube for surface launch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/world/05patrol.html?_r=2&emc=eta1

What are you smoking?

The submarines had been detected NORAD and US Northern Command and were being monitored by them. However, they were in international waters and not a concern for US.

In a formal statement, the U.S. Northern Command confirmed the subs' unusual presence, but pointed out they remained outside U.S. territorial waters and engaged in legally permissible transit and other non-threatening activities. Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell later explained that, "So long as they are operating in international waters, as, frankly, we do around the world, and are behaving in a responsible way, they are certainly free to do so, and it doesn't cause any alarm within this building." The U.S. Navy regularly conducts similar patrols throughout the globe and insists on its right to freedom of navigation in international waters.

Source: WPR Article | Global Insights: Russian Sub Patrols Cannot Conceal Fleet's Decline

More importantly;

The official said the Navy was able to track the submarines as they made their way through international waters off the American coastline. This can be done from aircraft, ships, underwater sensors or other submarines.

“We’ve known where they were, and we’re not concerned about our ability to track the subs,” the official added. “We’re concerned just because they are there.”

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/world/05patrol.html?_r=1

And;

Lt. Desmond James, a spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and U.S. Northern Command, issued a written statement confirming that the Pentagon has been watching Russian submarines operating in international waters off the coast.

"We have been monitoring them during transit and recognize the right of all nations to exercise freedom of navigation in international waters according to international law," he said.

The New York Times quoted unidentified Defense Department officials expressing concern about the unusual patrols but also saying that the submarines have not taken any provocative actions.

Source: Russian General Calls Submarine Patrols off U.S. East Coast Routine

Also, Russian Akula class submarines are more advanced then Chinese Qing class submarines.

Now the point is that I am talking about a scenario in which submarines will be send to attack continental US and for this purpose, they will have to get in to US territorial waters. That will be extremely risky move and the submarines will be picked out and destroyed.

How the hell do you think that New York Times came to know about the presence of these submarines? Did Russians specially informed them?

What you are saying is a bit far from reality, you think that the US can come near Pakistan, destroy its war machine and take a hike, than you are thinking on a street level not geopolitics.
Between having some capacity and the geopolitical realities of this world there is an ocean of possibilities and restraints.
So if you are smoking something, please do not put me with you in that regard.
I told your friends how realistic they were. But other facts and realities exist in the real world that makes the speculations about the US capacities and their use in actual war scenarios nothing more than fictional, unless the US becomes completely irrational and starts thinking like your "highly rational friends".
can you re-read my post with rationality, I mean the whole post not just about Pakistan and try to think it over many times? please.

We are discussing 'worst case scenarios', which shouldn't surprise you because this is forum is for military related discussions. US have long range weapons and many options to use against Pakistan. This is the point.

Prior to the nuclear tests, did you or anyone else knew that Pakistan had that capacity!?

US was keeping a track of Pakistani nuclear activities. US knew that Pakistan would eventually develop the bomb.

Read this: The CIA agent who exposed US complicity in helping Pakistan develop a nuclear bomb | World news | The Guardian

 

[Developereo]

Why are we even comparing Pakistan to the Russians? Even if the Russians do or don't manage to evade the Americans, what does that have to do with Pakistan?

The best technology in the Pakistani arsenal is child's play compared to America's crown jewels.

 

[LeGenD]

Why are we even comparing Pakistan to the Russians? Even if the Russians do or don't manage to evade the Americans, what does that have to do with Pakistan?

The best technology in the Pakistani arsenal is child's play compared to America's crown jewels.

Indeed.

And the funny thing is that even the British possess the capabilities to detect Akula class submarines;

A specially upgraded Russian Akula class submarine has been caught trying to record the acoustic signature made by the Vanguard submarines that carry Trident nuclear missiles, according to senior Navy officers.

Source: Russian subs stalk Trident in echo of Cold War - Telegraph

 

[Penguin]

Indeed.

And the funny thing is that even the British possess the capabilities to detect Akula class submarines;

A specially upgraded Russian Akula class submarine has been caught trying to record the acoustic signature made by the Vanguard submarines that carry Trident nuclear missiles, according to senior Navy officers.

Source: Russian subs stalk Trident in echo of Cold War - Telegraph

"even"? Within Nato, the Brits have traditionally been ASW specialists....

 

[nomi007]

which destroyer we are using
plz tell the name

 

[zer_0]

which destroyer we are using
plz tell the name

U guys don t have any destroyer but PN has some type 21 frigate.

 

[The SC]

What are you smoking?

The submarines had been detected NORAD and US Northern Command and were being monitored by them. However, they were in international waters and not a concern for US.

In a formal statement, the U.S. Northern Command confirmed the subs' unusual presence, but pointed out they remained outside U.S. territorial waters and engaged in legally permissible transit and other non-threatening activities. Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell later explained that, "So long as they are operating in international waters, as, frankly, we do around the world, and are behaving in a responsible way, they are certainly free to do so, and it doesn't cause any alarm within this building." The U.S. Navy regularly conducts similar patrols throughout the globe and insists on its right to freedom of navigation in international waters.

Source: WPR Article | Global Insights: Russian Sub Patrols Cannot Conceal Fleet's Decline

More importantly;

The official said the Navy was able to track the submarines as they made their way through international waters off the American coastline. This can be done from aircraft, ships, underwater sensors or other submarines.

“We’ve known where they were, and we’re not concerned about our ability to track the subs,” the official added. “We’re concerned just because they are there.”

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/world/05patrol.html?_r=1

And;

Lt. Desmond James, a spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and U.S. Northern Command, issued a written statement confirming that the Pentagon has been watching Russian submarines operating in international waters off the coast.

"We have been monitoring them during transit and recognize the right of all nations to exercise freedom of navigation in international waters according to international law," he said.

The New York Times quoted unidentified Defense Department officials expressing concern about the unusual patrols but also saying that the submarines have not taken any provocative actions.

Source: Russian General Calls Submarine Patrols off U.S. East Coast Routine

Also, Russian Akula class submarines are more advanced then Chinese Qing class submarines.

Now the point is that I am talking about a scenario in which submarines will be send to attack continental US and for this purpose, they will have to get in to US territorial waters. That will be extremely risky move and the submarines will be picked out and destroyed.

How the hell do you think that New York Times came to know about the presence of these submarines? Did Russians specially informed them?


We are discussing 'worst case scenarios', which shouldn't surprise you because this is forum is for military related discussions. US have long range weapons and many options to use against Pakistan. This is the point.


US was keeping a track of Pakistani nuclear activities. US knew that Pakistan would eventually develop the bomb.

Read this: The CIA agent who exposed US complicity in helping Pakistan develop a nuclear bomb | World news | The Guardian

According to Defense Department officials, one of the Russian submarines remained in international waters on Tuesday about 200 miles off the coast of the United States. The location of the second remained unclear. One senior official said the second submarine travelled south in recent days toward Cuba, while another senior official with access to reports on the surveillance mission said it had sailed away in a northerly direction.

The Pentagon and intelligence officials spoke anonymously to describe the effort to track the Russian submarines, which has not been publicly announced.

I just wanted to tell you that they are not GODS by any mean.
When it comes to Pakistan, the worst case scenario, is that 100 000 or more of the US troops are in reach in Afghanistan, so Pakistan in a worst case scenario of life and death won't sit as a duck, it will at least annihilate these troops in their bases.
Not to forget strategic alliances with China who will see this as a direct threat to its own survival and will respond god knows how.
For reaching the United states, I have already posted an article about the possibility of secret Pakistani ICBMs, helped by China and Russia to develop them in the years around 2004 after the sanctions and threats from the US, it might be just some speculations, but it came from American Jewish sources. and logically, the possibility is there. So maybe the whole fuss about Pakistan's nuclear arsenal and the presence of the Americans there has something to do with this possibility if not a reality. The other possibility, instead of the Qing class submarine, it might be a nuclear powered submarine, remember the Nautilus -5000 tons- NS that took merely 4 years to the US to make in the 50s and 60s and was a huge success.
I do not wish for a war where Pakistan is involved at all, I am just saying very realistically that the US, short of using its nuclear arsenal is nothing more than a big army, well equipped but with a very low moral and morality( their military chaplains are not introducing this concept of Christian crusades anew for nothing). Thus they are very vulnerable if they face a determined, well disciplined and well motivated army.

 

[LeGenD]

According to Defense Department officials, one of the Russian submarines remained in international waters on Tuesday about 200 miles off the coast of the United States. The location of the second remained unclear. One senior official said the second submarine travelled south in recent days toward Cuba, while another senior official with access to reports on the surveillance mission said it had sailed away in a northerly direction.

The Pentagon and intelligence officials spoke anonymously to describe the effort to track the Russian submarines, which has not been publicly announced.

Maybe the statement of this official was recorded prior to tracking of other submarine.

Because this statement came too:

Lt. Desmond James, a spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and U.S. Northern Command, issued a written statement confirming that the Pentagon has been watching Russian submarines operating in international waters off the coast.

"We have been monitoring them during transit and recognize the right of all nations to exercise freedom of navigation in international waters according to international law," he said.

The New York Times quoted unidentified Defense Department officials expressing concern about the unusual patrols but also saying that the submarines have not taken any provocative actions.

It is important for you to understand that media reports are not the best sources to analyze military related matters worldwide. Only NORAD and US Northern Command can provide most credible details of this event. Good luck for that.

I just wanted to tell you that they are not GODS by any mean.

Please do not put words in my mouth. Become a researcher in the field of science and technology and you will understand the true beauty of human mind then.

If any lesson has been learned from the Russian incident, Americans would have taken further precautionary measures afterwards. Never assume that they never did.

When it comes to Pakistan, the worst case scenario, is that 100 000 or more of the US troops are in reach in Afghanistan, so Pakistan in a worst case scenario of life and death won't sit as a duck, it will at least annihilate these troops in their bases.

Yes. This is possible. However, it means targeting another Islamic nation too, which can be dilemma for military planners in Pakistan. There is also a possibility that in case of the worst sase scenario, US forces might be pulled out from Afghanistan. Do not presume that American military planners never think on these lines.

Not to forget strategic alliances with China who will see this as a direct threat to its own survival and will respond god knows how.

Actually no. China may intervene diplomatically and put extreme pressure on both sides to let go. However, no other nation will fight a nuclear war for Pakistan. Don't make silly assumptions.

For reaching the United states, I have already posted an article about the possibility of secret Pakistani ICBMs, helped by China and Russia to develop them in the years around 2004 after the sanctions and threats from the US, it might be just some speculations, but it came from American Jewish sources. and logically, the possibility is there. So maybe the whole fuss about Pakistan's nuclear arsenal and the presence of the Americans there has something to do with this possibility if not a reality. The other possibility, instead of the Qing class submarine, it might be a nuclear powered submarine, remember the Nautilus -5000 tons- NS that took merely 4 years to the US to make in the 50s and 60s and was a huge success.

You destroyed the credibility of your argument by bringing the American Jewish sources in the picture. These people are well-known for lying about and propagating on the matters of nations which they regard as threats to their interests. They have done so with Iraq. And they are doing the same with Iran and Pakistan. Can you get the picture?

China does not have history of deployment of its nuclear assets in foreign nations; otherwise this development would have been noticed. Do some research on Chinese nuclear doctrine and arsenal and you will know what I am talking about and why China have not done so.

I do not wish for a war where Pakistan is involved at all, I am just saying very realistically that the US, short of using its nuclear arsenal is nothing more than a big army, well equipped but with a very low moral and morality( their military chaplains are not introducing this concept of Christian crusades anew for nothing). Thus they are very vulnerable if they face a determined, well disciplined and well motivated army.

I also hope that worst case scenario never develops. However, I disagree with your assessment. US military is very professional.

 

[Mav3rick]

Maybe the statement of this official was recorded prior to tracking of other submarine.

Because this statement came too:

Lt. Desmond James, a spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and U.S. Northern Command, issued a written statement confirming that the Pentagon has been watching Russian submarines operating in international waters off the coast.

"We have been monitoring them during transit and recognize the right of all nations to exercise freedom of navigation in international waters according to international law," he said.

The New York Times quoted unidentified Defense Department officials expressing concern about the unusual patrols but also saying that the submarines have not taken any provocative actions.

It is important for you to understand that media reports are not the best sources to analyze military related matters worldwide. Only NORAD and US Northern Command can provide most credible details of this event. Good luck for that.

You mean to say that even the Russian super subs cannot hide from NORAD? Could there be a strategic reason for the Russians to declare their presence in the area? Because if the Chinese can surprise American CBG then I'm sure the Russians can only do a step better.

Yes. This is possible. However, it means targeting another Islamic nation too, which can be dilemma for military planners in Pakistan. There is also a possibility that in case of the worst sase scenario, US forces might be pulled out from Afghanistan. Do not presume that American military planners never think on these lines.

Let me tell you how invincible the US military really is......just equip the Talibaan in Afghanistan with 'Baktar Shikan' & 'ANZA MK3' systems and watch the US military crumble within days! Image what chaos the freedom fighters would wreck on the US Military if they actually had some capable weapons instead of RPGs & AK-47's.

Actually no. China may intervene diplomatically and put extreme pressure on both sides to let go. However, no other nation will fight a nuclear war for Pakistan. Don't make silly assumptions.

Even that would depend upon circumstances. How much of this would China take before she decides to engage the US, would she want to be surrounded by the US military on all sides? Would she allow matters to escalate to a level where Nuclear weapons may come in to play right next door? Would China still be safe if Pakistan falls? What about Russia? What about the Muslim world? What about the rest of the world, how long would they be willing to stay quiet? Would even India allow a Nuclear War next door?

I also hope that worst case scenario never develops. However, I disagree with your assessment. US military is very professional.

They may be professional but they are not invincible, ofcouse it is a lot harder to hit them but look at the resolve of almost unarmed Talibaan, look at what they have done to the US Military. Imagine what a real trained military with some resolve would do.

 

[LeGenD]

You mean to say that even the Russian super subs cannot hide from NORAD?

Yes.

During Cold War, US developed SOSUS system to detect all kinds of submarines lurking in its waters and other regions of interest. SOSUS did the job well until Russian Akula class submarines arrived. Therefore, US have developed another system (FDS) to detect Akula class and similar submarines.

However, these are not the only systems in place. US have developed several other methods to detect and hunt submarines, if the need arises to do so.

Could there be a strategic reason for the Russians to declare their presence in the area?

No. Disclosure by US media sources in 2009 actually prompted Russian officials to give defensive statements.

Because if the Chinese can surprise American CBG then I'm sure the Russians can only do a step better.

I find it funny that isolated incidents like these do not happen when US naval forces are in combat posture; deployed for combat in a specific region.

Anyways, this incident occurred in 2007 and awakened US to latest naval threats. Thanks to the Chinese, US is much better prepared to deal with these kinds of threats now.

This disclosure from an unidentified US official came during the Akula incident in 2009:

"Anytime the Russian Navy does something so out of the ordinary it is cause for worry. We've known where they were, and we're not concerned about our ability to track the subs. We're concerned just because they are there," a senior Defense Department official is quoted as saying.

And it is 2012 now.

Let me tell you how invincible the US military really is......just equip the Talibaan in Afghanistan with 'Baktar Shikan' & 'ANZA MK3' systems and watch the US military crumble within days! Image what chaos the freedom fighters would wreck on the US Military if they actually had some capable weapons instead of RPGs & AK-47's.

We have the example of Iraq to consider in this case where Iran played a vital role in supporting the insurgency against US forces by providing weapons and other kinds of logistical support to the insurgents. Entire cities were often transformed in to fortesses of resistance. However, US military handled the resistance very well.

It is also important to consider that how US troops operate during combat situations. Most notably, US troops can call for close air support against insurgents during heavy clashes.

Here is an example:

Yes! Providing advanced weapons to Taliban in Afghanistan will ensure greater losses of US military but nothing significant will still come out of it. Taliban will still not be able to destroy US military bases in Afghanistan and throw US military out of the country forcibly. In fact, heavy insurgency may invite much more significant counter-response from US military against insurgents, as happened in Iraq.

Even that would depend upon circumstances. How much of this would China take before she decides to engage the US, would she want to be surrounded by the US military on all sides? Would she allow matters to escalate to a level where Nuclear weapons may come in to play right next door? Would China still be safe if Pakistan falls? What about Russia? What about the Muslim world? What about the rest of the world, how long would they be willing to stay quiet? Would even India allow a Nuclear War next door?

These are certainly valid questions. US military action would be conventional in nature initially, if this war happens. However, if Pakistan threatens to use nuclear weapons after suffering heavy losses then all countries supporting Pakistan might loose their leverage too. The supportive countries will likely try to force Pakistan to give in to US demands instead.

In case of this war, India and China might play important roles.

China already knows that US plans to contain its influence. China's geopolitical disputes with several of its neighbouring countries give US the advantage to implement its plan to contain China. In case of major hostilities between US and Pakistan (God forbid), US may try to keep China preoccupied with its neigbouring rivals.

Indian role will be most interesting in this scenario. Nothing pleases Indians more then to see Pakistani hurt. On one hand, US all-out military action may nuetralize the Pakistani threat for India. However, nuclear war in this region (if it takes place) can also damage Indian economic growth for years to come. We can only speculate in this regard that which side India may be willing to choose though.

Islamic world and Russia will be powerless in the grand picture.

However, we cannot expect any direct military intervention in this hypothetical conflict on behalf of Pakistan from any outsider against USA. Keep in mind the situation of Pakistan right after 9/11 as a reminder.

They may be professional but they are not invincible, ofcouse it is a lot harder to hit them but look at the resolve of almost unarmed Talibaan, look at what they have done to the US Military. Imagine what a real trained military with some resolve would do.

I will not consider Taliban as 'almost unarmed' like you do. Taliban cannot defeat US military in battles. It does not possesses the capability to destroy US military bases in Afghanistan and force US out of the country. All it can do is keep pressure on US to force it to reconsider its war-effort in Afghanistan. Interestingly, regardless of pressure from Taliban, US occupation of Afghanistan is lasting longer then occupation in Iraq.

And Taliban survives because of its elusive nature and support from local populace of some provinces in Afghanistan.

A proper standing army would have been destroyed by US military power. Case in point is Persian Gulf War 1991.

 

[The SC]

Please do not put words in my mouth. Become a researcher in the field of science and technology and you will understand the true beauty of human mind then.

For the beauty of the -limited- human mind (the American one seems to impress you too much), here are my conclusions after a life time in science, technology, research, education and development :

Islam asks for submission to God's will to witch every creature in the Universe abides by, from microcosmic ones to macrocosmic ones, so not to be in conflict with the laws governing our universe or the universe as a whole.
God has blessed us, the humans (alone) with a form of intelligence that should help us in appreciating the beauty of these mathematical laws, to understand them and to come to the conclusion of awe towards their Creator.
with reason, logic and every other limited tools we have as humans and the best of us using them with the help of the most sophisticated scientific instruments they can device, came to the same conclusion of the existence of this supreme being -that we call God in Anglo-Saxon language or Allah in Arabic, Dieu in French and so on... -
One can not help but submit to these laws and use his intelligence and reason to come in terms with them for the best beneficial results to him and to his surroundings. Thus the supremacy of Islam and the islamic mind (I mean faith in God). I should add, and the fallacy of the American supremacy.
If you believe along these lines, you can surpass them in any endeavour, and fight them if under obligation with an unshakable faith in the truth and the victorious outcome, this is the source of Muslim strength.
And please do not get me wrong, I am not a religious fanatic by any mean, but have reached my conclusions through science, history and a strong faith in the supreme being, thus catching the spirit of Islam's golden ages.
Remind yourself, that it is not the Muslims who went to invade America, but the opposite have happened with no much gain to the perpetrator.(apart from bloodshed, they have managed to destroy their economy):
"As each of you looks beyond this great institution, to the life before you, I know you face many difficult questions in a world fraught with uncertainty. America is in an economic crisis the likes of which we have never seen in our lifetime. Europe is struggling with the greatest economic crisis since the Cold War, one that calls into question the very definition of the European Union."
http://midwestdemocracy.com/blogs/entries/romney-i-will-never-ever-apologize-america/

To tell you the truth, I am not impressed by American military power, since America is rotten from inside, its military does not fare better. But I do appreciate its scientific endeavour, since it sources itself from all parts of the world through a multicultural pool of mostly foreign scientists under which guidance American students strive, all this is due to material resources the US possesses. So in reality, anyone with enough material resources to hire the best scientists can do the same or better, depending on the scientific infrastructure he can manage to create.

If any lesson has been learned from the Russian incident, Americans would have taken further precautionary measures afterwards. Never assume that they never did.

Indeed, they have sent a new satellite with the most recent telemetry sensors disguised as an Oceanic satellite, a month or so after the incident.

 

[LeGenD]

One can not help but submit to these laws and use his intelligence and reason to come in terms with them for the best beneficial results to him and to his surroundings. Thus the supremacy of Islam and the islamic mind (I mean faith in God). I should add, and the fallacy of the American supremacy.

The terms like 'American supremacy' or 'Chinese supremacy' and vice versa are misleading. Nations always compete for superiority against each other. This is like a continuous cycle.

If you believe along these lines, you can surpass them in any endeavour, and fight them if under obligation with an unshakable faith in the truth and the victorious outcome, this is the source of Muslim strength.

Certainly. However, this would require not just strong faith in Islam but also true dedication for knowledge creation (innovation). The biggest gripe of most Islamic nations in modern times is corruption (in all of its forms). This factor alone is the greatest hindrance to progress of most Islamic nations worldwide.

Let us consider the case of Pakistan. Allah Almighty has blessed this nation with geography and resources, which if utilized effectively, can make Pakistan a prosperous state. However, corruption is greatest hindrance to progress of Pakistan. Many people are corrupt to the bone and look forward to exploit others for personal gains. People, in general, are less tolerant to each other now. Investment level in R&D sectors is shameful and governments give less importance to advices of researchers on various issues that require immediate attention. Literacy rate is poor and common people are exploited to the maximum by those in power. Then their is also an issue of religious fanaticism.

In the light of aforementioned issues, how can some visualize Pakistan as a strong nation? It clearly isn't. Nuclear weapons alone do not make a nation strong. We have the examples of both USSR and Pakistan to consider.

And please do not get me wrong, I am not a religious fanatic by any mean, but have reached my conclusions through science, history and a strong faith in the supreme being, thus catching the spirit of Islam's golden ages.

Your conclusion is good but you need to understand the 'ground realities' of existing Islamic world. You cannot expect the Islamic nations to compete with USA with their prevalent shortcomings and plethora of internal issues. Even if we consider geopolitics, Islamic nations prefer to fight each other rather then form unity against external exploiters.

Remind yourself, that it is not the Muslims who went to invade America, but the opposite have happened with no much gain to the perpetrator.(apart from bloodshed, they have managed to destroy their economy):
"As each of you looks beyond this great institution, to the life before you, I know you face many difficult questions in a world fraught with uncertainty. America is in an economic crisis the likes of which we have never seen in our lifetime. Europe is struggling with the greatest economic crisis since the Cold War, one that calls into question the very definition of the European Union."
Romney: "I will never, ever apologize for America" | Midwest Democracy

To be honest, assessments like these are filled with hype. Economic crises is not a new thing for WEST. Even emerging powers like China face significant challenges. Economies are more intertwined now then they had been in the past. Therefore, I am not surprised that their are several new emerging economic giants besides WEST. Greater competition will ensure greater transparency in drafting of economic policies and put 'imperialistic designs' of any single state in check. It is also foolish to assume that USA will not undergo internal changes to cope with these latest developments. The process has already begun.

I strongly believe in this judgement: "Once countries get the hang of economic growth, it takes a great deal to throw them off course."

Yes, USA may not remain the sole superpower again like it did from 1991 till 2008. However, it is still foolish to underestimate its role in the near future. USA have its own share of strengths in the field of science and technology, industry, geopolitics, and decent access to resources that remain unparalleled in the world.

And let us be realistic; even if USA faces decline - this will be temporary. The opportunity will be always available for USA to bounce back. Point is that if the rest of the world learns from USA; USA learns from the rest of the world too. This is a too-way game.

As far as external exploitation of Islamic nations is concerned, Islamic nations themselves are responsible for this mess. Internal rifts between Islamic nations have created opportunities for external exploitation. And you cannot say that USA have not gained anything from its imperialistic ambitions. USA have gained strong foothold in Middle East and access to its resources. While USA is keeping its reserves, it is using resources of other countries to meet its needs. Apart from few Islamic nations, all others are under US influence.

To tell you the truth, I am not impressed by American military power, since America is rotten from inside, its military does not fare better.

I am short of words here.

USA continuous to set standards for the whole world in the art of warfare.

Read about how innovative US have been in the art of conventional warfare after the debacle of Vietnam and how the Persian Gulf War in 1991 set the stage of revolution in Chinese military doctrine here; Modernizing China

Later on, read about how innovative US have been in the art of urban combat here after the debacle of Somalia; http://sa.rochester.edu/jur/issues/fall2007/chang.pdf

Also, here is a remarkable example of how US technological innovations can help war effort in distant lands: http://www.airdefenseartillery.com/online/2010/ADA In Action/IraqFreedom/OIF/1stPAC3Engage.pdf

These are the events and developments that media sources fail to capture because media wars are mostly about propaganda and generating ratings.

But I do appreciate its scientific endeavour, since it sources itself from all parts of the world through a multicultural pool of mostly foreign scientists under which guidance American students strive, all this is due to material resources the US possesses. So in reality, anyone with enough material resources to hire the best scientists can do the same or better, depending on the scientific infrastructure he can manage to create.

Indeed!

Indeed, they have sent a new satellite with the most recent telemetry sensors disguised as an Oceanic satellite, a month or so after the incident.

Thanks for this bit of information. I stand correct in my assertions therefore.