Why didn't the Chinese people overthrow Mao's government during the Great Famine of 1959–1961? Many

[jkroo]

These indian trolls are desperate to make a point @ defaming the rule of CCP
Who is going to allow photos to be taken like that on the site of execution?

These are plenty of similar ones in movies like this comedy from a HK production or the photos were mocked up to fulfil that purpose

Chinese Horticulture - Penzai

Friend, I come here to see how they brainwash themselves and bash China.
Just have fun to see those ppl play circus and low tricks. To me, that's so low, just too low.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

My parents generation went through the Great Famine

Your parents are Chinese？I knew it!!! Most Indians are full of themselves，yet I have neverseen you talking about India。then I thought you must be born and raised form somewhere else，lol

But why do you have an indian name？

 

[jkroo]

As a family, we suffer together and we enjoy the prosperity together like yesterday, today, and tomorrow. When you understand this Chinese mindset, you will understand why.

Friend, you have no need to explain anything to them. Troll will always be troll, big mouths always build in their bodies. We just be ourselves. That's enough. There's a risk that talk to losers too much will turn yourself to be a loser. So, ignore those morons is also an good option.

 

[gambit]

American slavery was documented in photographic evidence, artifacts and people who were direct descendents of slaves.

The great leap forward exists only in statistics. There's no physical evidence. It was a condition similar to any other economic depression where fertility dropped and the population didn't increase as fast as expected.

The great leap forward existed as a misguided economic policy in a developing country, that led to a major economic depression. this coincided with natural disasters, such that people suffered malnutrition and decreased life expectancy because of it. However, this does not mean that people died en-masse, and there is indeed no evidence to support the idea that ppl just dropped dead. How hard is this to understand?

Right...So indirect evidences, such as personal testimonies from oral recollections to journalist recordings, for slavery are acceptable, but the same TYPES of indirect evidences for the Great Famine are unacceptable.

Got it...

Liu Shaoqi who was the President of P.R.China at that time had said that the three years disaster was 70% due to human error and the rest was due to natural disaster. However piling all the human error on just Mao alone was totally unfair to him also. The majority of those Human errors had to be consided with the cultural/political environment back then. Local officials purposely greatly exaggerating crops yields and when famine happened they also failed to report to the central government were the main causes of death from that famine.

There is a movie line where the character said of himself: 'I am a man looking for a vision.'

Mao was the leader of the Chinese Communist Party and he set the policies for the party, which inevitably lead to policies for the country. A leader is supposed to be a visionary, not a technician. A 'visionary' leader is someone who believes what he has is appropriate for a following and that he needs executors -- technicians -- of his plans for the country. Those 'technicians' are or should be 'domain experts' and each usually was looking for a vision to dedicate his/her life.

You guys consistently blame B43 for the mess that is Iraq today, so why not apply the same thinking to Mao and the Great Famine ? The US had a great vision for Iraq: democratic and peaceful. That did not go too well, did it ? The world's opinions followed the arguments that the person ultimately to blame is the leader who proposed a vision and assembled a team of executors who had no choice but to follow the leader's general plans for his vision.

Not only was Mao wrong in believing that Marxism was THE WAY for China, he assembled the wrong team of executors who were nothing of the 'domain experts' they are supposed to be. Local authorities who 'fab-ed' up fantastic agricultural yields felt compelled to do so for fear of their lives because if they were allowed to be honest, they would do damage to Mao's image, which was unacceptable to the cult of Mao.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Right...So indirect evidences, such as personal testimonies from oral recollections to journalist recordings, for slavery are acceptable, but the same TYPES of indirect evidences for the Great Famine are unacceptable.

Got it...

Why are you getting on him? It is clear that he doesn't want to accept Great Famine.
And he is the only one here that denies this in such a manner. Just accept him as a Chinese equivalent to an American red neck.

 

[gambit]

Why are you getting on him? It is clear that he doesn't want to accept Great Famine.
And he is the only one here that denies this in such a manner. Just accept him as a Chinese equivalent to an American red neck.

It is not about him/them. It is about the silent readers.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Why are you getting on him? It is clear that he doesn't want to accept Great Famine.
And he is the only one here that denies this in such a manner. Just accept him as a Chinese equivalent to an American red neck.

the famine exists as much as the 1930s great depression famine exists in the US where crop yields dropped like a rock yet post editting by the regime suggest that people actually got healthier due to a calorie restricted diet and less pressure of working. you can't make this shit up .

lol kid, yeah I'm a redneck, despite being one of the more liberal Chinese on here. you're in for a surprise when you talk to real rednecks.

 

[gambit]

the famine exists as much as the 1930s great depression famine exists in the US where crop yields dropped like a rock yet post editting by the regime suggest that people actually got healthier due to a calorie restricted diet and less pressure of working. you can't make this shit up .

There were starvation, but not famine.

There is a great difference between starvation and famine. Starvation is lack of access of food and is usually short term. Famine is beyond merely lack of access of food but that the land, for variety of reasons, became unable of production of the basic staples that make up food.

What Mao did was that in spite of literally thousands of yrs of Chinese agricultural knowledge, he imposed policies that rendered the land unable of production of those basic staple crops that make up food. Rice, potato, wheat, barley, hay, etc, are basic staple crops. Food is soup, meat, stew, fried rice, pancakes, cheeseburgers, etc.

Lysenkoism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This was accompanied by fake experimental data supporting Lysenkoism from scientists seeking favor and the destruction of counter-evidence to Lysenko's theories. Instead of performing controlled experiments, Lysenko claimed that vernalization increased wheat yields by 15%, solely based upon questionnaires taken of farmers.

Lysenkoism is scientific and agricultural quackery, but that was imposed on the Chinese farmers in spite of its proven failure in Russia and in other countries that tried it for long term. Fake experimental data = Fake crop yields and that happened in China. In short, the Chinese communists made that shit up.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

There were starvation, but not famine.

There is a great difference between starvation and famine. Starvation is lack of access of food and is usually short term. Famine is beyond merely lack of access of food but that the land, for variety of reasons, became unable of production of the basic staples that make up food.

What Mao did was that in spite of literally thousands of yrs of Chinese agricultural knowledge, he imposed policies that rendered the land unable of production of those basic staple crops that make up food. Rice, potato, wheat, barley, hay, etc, are basic staple crops. Food is soup, meat, stew, fried rice, pancakes, cheeseburgers, etc.

Lysenkoism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lysenkoism is scientific and agricultural quackery, but that was imposed on the Chinese farmers in spite of its proven failure in Russia and in other countries that tried it for long term. Fake experimental data = Fake crop yields and that happened in China. In short, the Chinese communists made that shit up.

Thousands of years of Chinese agricultural knowledge? Did you know that there was a famine every single year of the ROC's existence and the death rate in average times was double that of the Great Leap Forward years? That there was a famine in every single dynasty, sometimes multiple?

 

[Genesis]

If you really think this, you have no knowledge on China. There is complete freedom when in private discussion regarding anything.

Also, noone really checks these english language forums.

The Chinese commentators here are expressing what they think, and there is quite a following of Mao which can't be wished away.

We are not going to be angry at Mao, for one thing, those days are over, and for another, this is the most important. We made a miraculous recovery that put us on the top of the developing world, by a wide margin and banging on the developed world's door.

Today, the young people, like me's image of Mao isn't the real one anymore, you can call it brainwashing, you can call it indifference, it's somewhere in between. Only the good is said of Mao and due to the current economic opportunities, nobody cares what the actual truth really is, even when they hear it.

Today's world, if you are not in the news every second week you are irrelevant, Mao's been "irrelevant" for God knows how long, who cares. At least, that's my generation's take.

Oh, that explains alot.
Just questioned that picture because the person at the gunpoint looks more like a kid.

China doesn't execute kids, or even have long prison terms for them. Check amenity international, or whoever does these lists, and see America's thousands of life without parole compared to our zero.

 

[gambit]

Thousands of years of Chinese agricultural knowledge? Did you know that there was a famine every single year of the ROC's existence and the death rate in average times was double that of the Great Leap Forward years? That there was a famine in every single dynasty, sometimes multiple?

So what ? That does not negate Mao's culpability for the Great Famine under his dictatorial rule.

Hunger is temporary and common. I am hungry after a busy day at work or after a good workout or after a booty session. The last item, most of you guys do not know or have little experience with.

Starvation, which usually is accompanied with malnutrition, is when there is restricted access to food, or when there is little food, and/or that the food is lacking of vital nutritional components.

Famine is worse than all of them combined. Famine is when there is little or no production of the basic staples that make up food. The 19th century Great Potato Famine of Ireland was a 'famine' for dramatic, not technical, reason because Ireland was actually exporting potato during that time. There was a blight that did a lot of damages to the potato crop, but it was a combination of laws and politics between England and Ireland that resulted in severe shortages of potato harvest, not that the land itself failed to produce crops.

EXPORTS IN FAMINE TIMES | Ireland's Great Hunger Museum

Throughout the entire period of the Famine, Ireland was exporting enormous quantities of food to England. In Ireland Before and After the Famine, Cormac O’Grada points out, “Although the potato crop failed, the country was still producing and exporting more than enough grain crops to feed the population. But that was a “money crop” and not a “food crop” and could not be interfered with.” Up to 75 percent of Irish soil was devoted to wheat, oats, barley and other crops that were grown for export and shipped abroad while the people starved.

Mao's economic polices were driven by ideologies and not of agricultural experience that ended with Chinese farmers poorly managed the land and the land failed to produce. The Chinese Great Famine was truly a famine. It happened under Mao's ideologically driven reforms. If Deng Xiaoping is credited with modern China, then Mao must be credited, or blamed, with the Great Famine.

 

[chauism]

There is a movie line where the character said of himself: 'I am a man looking for a vision.'

Mao was the leader of the Chinese Communist Party and he set the policies for the party, which inevitably lead to policies for the country. A leader is supposed to be a visionary, not a technician. A 'visionary' leader is someone who believes what he has is appropriate for a following and that he needs executors -- technicians -- of his plans for the country. Those 'technicians' are or should be 'domain experts' and each usually was looking for a vision to dedicate his/her life.

You guys consistently blame B43 for the mess that is Iraq today, so why not apply the same thinking to Mao and the Great Famine ? The US had a great vision for Iraq: democratic and peaceful. That did not go too well, did it ? The world's opinions followed the arguments that the person ultimately to blame is the leader who proposed a vision and assembled a team of executors who had no choice but to follow the leader's general plans for his vision.

Not only was Mao wrong in believing that Marxism was THE WAY for China, he assembled the wrong team of executors who were nothing of the 'domain experts' they are supposed to be. Local authorities who 'fab-ed' up fantastic agricultural yields felt compelled to do so for fear of their lives because if they were allowed to be honest, they would do damage to Mao's image, which was unacceptable to the cult of Mao.

I don't know why you want to drag President Bush into all this. I for one never blamed him for what happened in Iraq. He is no more to blame than let's say those intellegence agencies that provided him information that Iraq had WMD, or the national security advisors suggested that war was a good option to solve the problems in Iraq and those in the situation room that convinced him that it wouldn't have a such negative effect. Not to mention those forces behind scene that was beyond his control had influenced his decision. If you want to go deeper, how about the majority of the senate that approved his action against Iraq? In all fairness as my early post said before I even think President Bush is more competent for the position of the POTUS than his successor.

Now let's get back on Mao. Mao's intention and his vision at that time was to industrialize China under a short period at that time. Had him had better information or forseen the outcome of his policies, would he still be putting the country through that? You are indeed insinuating that Mao had ordered policy knowing that the famine would be the direct result of those. Also although Mao at that time was the most influecial person in China, his power was not without contest from his left and right back then.

 

[70U63]

Some outsider still concern what Mao did or his 'failed' policy, while they forgot their recent failed policy which resulted in birth of freedom fighting activists in the Middle East.
Or may be we should be more understanding because of their own failure. They need to find another excuse to make them feel better.

We are not going to be angry at Mao, for one thing, those days are over, and for another, this is the most important. We made a miraculous recovery that put us on the top of the developing world, by a wide margin and banging on the developed world's door.

 

[gambit]

I don't know why you want to drag President Bush into all this. I for one never blamed him for what happened in Iraq. He is no more to blame than let's say those intellegence agencies that provided him information that Iraq had WMD, or the national security advisors suggested that war was a good option to solve the problems in Iraq and those in the situation room that convinced him that it wouldn't have a such negative effect. Not to mention those forces behind scene that was beyond his control had influenced his decision. If you want to go deeper, how about the majority of the senate that approved his action against Iraq? In all fairness as my early post said before I even think President Bush is more competent for the position of the POTUS than his successor.

I do not mean YOU personally, whoever you are. I said 'you guys' meaning you in the impersonal sense. George W Bush (B43) was not only the official face for the US, he was the face for the Iraq situation. As such, B43 became the convenient focus for anything regarding Iraq -- by 'you guys'.

Now let's get back on Mao. Mao's intention and his vision at that time was to industrialize China under a short period at that time. Had him had better information or forseen the outcome of his policies, would he still be putting the country through that? You are indeed insinuating that Mao had ordered policy knowing that the famine would be the direct result of those. Also although Mao at that time was the most influecial person in China, his power was not without contest from his left and right back then.

Noooo...But I am saying, not insinuating, that Mao placed ideology over common sense. Not of his own common sense, but of those who knew their specialties better than he believes he does.

- The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. Bertrand Russell

Mao was a fanatic. An ideological fanatic. He was also a fool for following Stalin at just about everything Stalin ordered him to do. Yes, I do mean 'ordered'. Stalin ordered Mao to STFU about Russia looting Manchuria of all the things that rightly belonged to China, so Mao STFU-ed as ordered. After WW II, Stalin ordered Mao to follow Marxism to the letter, so Mao did as ordered. As time went by, Mao was not ignorant of the world's progress outside of China, was he ? Did Mao changed ? No, he doubled down. The results after the Great Famine was the horrible Cultural Revolution and the backwardness that was China for decades, all the way until Mao's death in 1976 and China finally became a bit wiser. When the evidences are abundant around you that continually proves you wrong, and yet you do nothing...

 

[Tractor]

Because this thing which fabricated did not really happened.