Why did PAF not buy F16/BLOCK 60

[Mani2020]

I would agree with you on this one. F-16 still is a very potent fighter. Its so modular in design that even after decades, it can still be upgraded to modern standards, although it has now reached its top.

But Pakistan was never offered the block60. Although in future, US might want to sell off its F16 to replace them with something better. But that would take another decade or so.

i thnk till then jf-17 technology will b matured enough that Paf will not need f-16 block60 currently analysts compare jf-17 roughly to f-16 block 30 and some to block40 thats on the basis of specifications available on different sources like offical PAC website or some chinese sources but no one knows the inside story plus it is also going further upgrades ,future french or improved chinese avionics will ultimately help to improve it alot also technology with maturity gets better and better

 

[notorious_eagle]

I would agree with you on this one. F-16 still is a very potent fighter. Its so modular in design that even after decades, it can still be upgraded to modern standards, although it has now reached its top.

But Pakistan was never offered the block60. Although in future, US might want to sell off its F16 to replace them with something better. But that would take another decade or so.

Pakistan was never interested in purchasing the Block60 and thus was never requested, only UAE operates this variant and in case of sanctions it will be extremely hard to get our hands on spare parts for this variant. Block 52 is in service with many other countries and it would be easier for us to get our hands on spares for this variant. PAF was more interested in getting its hands on the latest sensors(EW, ECM) and weapons package(AAMRAAMS, Bunker Busters) that this aircraft will bring rather than the Aircraft itself.
PAF is extremely satisfied with the performance of JF17's and FC20's, although nobody can deny the importance of the Falcon. You are right that USAF will be retiring its Block52 airframes in the next couple of years, good chance that PAF will get its hand on those planes and get a FALCON UPGRADE to increase its flying hours.

 

[mean_bird]

Pakistan was never interested in purchasing the Block60 and thus was never requested

From what I know, there are two things to this

- Firstly, while PAF was reviewing the option of going for more F-16s, once the option became available, it was indirectly conveyed (not officially) that getting approval for the block 60 will be harder. For those with some experience, a hint is good enough and we kept that in mind.

- Secondly, PAF does not want to spend all its money (allocated to it by the airforce development program) on US/Western planes. Even if current western planes are good enough, it would be foolish to be bitten at the same place twice. Hence a less expensive (and only 18) blk 52 rather than a more expensive blk 60. Some money has been reserved for the FC-20 project or else PAF would have exhausted its funds.

- The blk 52 we are getting is not very much inferior to a blk 60, atleast to suit our needs. Regarding the radar, PAF can go for an upgrade at a later stage provided such a radar is available and we have funds.

- The F-16 was chosen over grippen because it is thought to be superior, we already have a good fleet of it and lots of experience, we have maintenance facilities, and we would also like to upgrade our old fleet. EF Typhoon and Rafale are out-of-range even if they are beautiful aircrafts.

 

[Mani2020]

From what I know, there are two things to this

- Firstly, while PAF was reviewing the option of going for more F-16s, once the option became available, it was indirectly conveyed (not officially) that getting approval for the block 60 will be harder. For those with some experience, a hint is good enough and we kept that in mind.

- Secondly, PAF does not want to spend all its money (allocated to it by the airforce development program) on US/Western planes. Even if current western planes are good enough, it would be foolish to be bitten at the same place twice. Hence a less expensive (and only 18) blk 52 rather than a more expensive blk 60. Some money has been reserved for the FC-20 project or else PAF would have exhausted its funds.

- The blk 52 we are getting is not very much inferior to a blk 60, atleast to suit our needs. Regarding the radar, PAF can go for an upgrade at a later stage provided such a radar is available and we have funds.

- The F-16 was chosen over grippen because it is thought to be superior, we already have a good fleet of it and lots of experience, we have maintenance facilities, and we would also like to upgrade our old fleet. EF Typhoon and Rafale are out-of-range even if they are beautiful aircrafts.

I red ex ACM Tanvir Mehmood interview he said that Grippen were good but to b very frank we cant handdle its complex technology in case it had been sold to us with tot ,he also said jf-17 is same like grippen n at the time the new version of grippen will be introduced till thenn we already have our number of jf-17's operational then he concluded by saying that if i have to given option i will surely go for more f-16 and we will surely use our option of 18 more f-16 c/d given that we have funds

 

[Mani2020]

i thnk the main purpose for going to f-16 c/d was to get hands to latest f-16 technology plus the chance to get the latest missiles and avionics plus extra radars for the current f-16 and most importantly AIM-120C bvr missiles which can also be used on jf-17 coz PAF orderd 500 AIM-120c bvr missiles which according to manufacturer is the largest foreign order for any version of Aim-120 bvr missile so when u look at f-16 c/d u must thnk just 18 but the reality is that we are getting a hell of equipment with them also PAF can use f-16 c/d technology in modernization of ts jf-17 fleet who knows

 

[bc040400065]

yes i agree PAF should had gone for the best falcon if not possible then paf should not have gone for the blk52+ as well. it would have been better to buy some other jet like grippen or rafale or may be wait for J10. i don't think it would have had any impact on our security as F16 are to be delivered in next 2 years so we could have waited for a year or so and gone for full force of J10. And if PAF darely wanted to buy the falcon then they should have opted for the very best version. blk60 i think would have been much better specialy now because the US has offered the indian blk70. which is much advanced than the blk52 and we already have to match the threat of su30mki. that is my sincere view thanks.

 

[bc040400065]

i thnk the main purpose for going to f-16 c/d was to get hands to latest f-16 technology plus the chance to get the latest missiles and avionics plus extra radars for the current f-16 and most importantly AIM-120C bvr missiles which can also be used on jf-17 coz PAF orderd 500 AIM-120c bvr missiles which according to manufacturer is the largest foreign order for any version of Aim-120 bvr missile so when u look at f-16 c/d u must thnk just 18 but the reality is that we are getting a hell of equipment with them also PAF can use f-16 c/d technology in modernization of ts jf-17 fleet who knows

well brother i agree with you that we will get the latest of missiles and ground attack munition with the deal and also MLU for the current F16 but if this 18 blk52 deal is for to look under the hood and get the technology and knowledge of latest then i think PAf should have gone for the latest version which is blk60. try out the blk60 and get the knowledge of the latest tech and use it in improving your own fighter but its done now nothing can happen. thanks feel free to correct me.

 

[Mani2020]

well brother i agree with you that we will get the latest of missiles and ground attack munition with the deal and also MLU for the current F16 but if this 18 blk52 deal is for to look under the hood and get the technology and knowledge of latest then i think PAf should have gone for the latest version which is blk60. try out the blk60 and get the knowledge of the latest tech and use it in improving your own fighter but its done now nothing can happen. thanks feel free to correct me.

There are few issues
F-16e/f is far more expensive than f-16 c/d as it holds an AESA radar
PAF would not pssibly afford them,In case of UAE they provided a hell of investment to incorporate AESA radar on UAEAF f-16's

and even if PAF had afford it US will never give it to PAF due to the fear of possible technology leakage to China coz AESA radar is the most advanced technology today and is only operated by US ( although different countries are trying to come up with their AESA but its another story) that were also the concerns when US were selling these f-16 to UAEAF and they had negotiations with UAE not to provide Paf with the inside of the aircraft

I hope u got ur answer

 

[SU-33]

price is the most important reason, i think.
USA not allowed PAF to buy F-16/block60 with military aid channel

 

[All-Green]

i thnk the main purpose for going to f-16 c/d was to get hands to latest f-16 technology plus the chance to get the latest missiles and avionics plus extra radars for the current f-16 and most importantly AIM-120C bvr missiles which can also be used on jf-17 coz PAF orderd 500 AIM-120c bvr missiles which according to manufacturer is the largest foreign order for any version of Aim-120 bvr missile so when u look at f-16 c/d u must thnk just 18 but the reality is that we are getting a hell of equipment with them also PAF can use f-16 c/d technology in modernization of ts jf-17 fleet who knows

We cannot integrate the AIM-120C onto JF-17 without the consent of our American friends.
If they agree then it shall have to be done by Rytheon which is the manufacturer of AIM-120C.
I still very much doubt it that this it what we are planning for.

One important thing to note is that AIM-120C can be integrated onto SAM systems as well and used as a surface to air missile!

Currently the 500 AIM-120C procurement is for our F-16 squadrons only since the JF-17 will use Chinese BVR weapons, maybe down the line we shall see french weapons if the RC-400 radar is fitted, however i have seen no indicator that it shall be used on JF-17s.

Block 60s are very expensive and due to funds we could not order the initially planned Block 52s and instead have just ordered 18 with provisioning of 18 more.
Money dictates what you buy, otherwise we would all have Ferraris to drive in!

The main motive was to buy a credible modern fighter with minimum cost overheads instead of a totally new support setup, the F-16 filled the role perfectly.
Despite this a lot of training and new support structure will have to be provided.

 

[Mani2020]

We cannot integrate the AIM-120C onto JF-17 without the consent of our American friends.
If they agree then it shall have to be done by Rytheon which is the manufacturer of AIM-120C.
I still very much doubt it that this it what we are planning for.

One important thing to note is that AIM-120C can be integrated onto SAM systems as well and used as a surface to air missile!

Currently the 500 AIM-120C procurement is for our F-16 squadrons only since the JF-17 will use Chinese BVR weapons, maybe down the line we shall see french weapons if the RC-400 radar is fitted, however i have seen no indicator that it shall be used on JF-17s.

Block 60s are very expensive and due to funds we could not order the initially planned Block 52s and instead have just ordered 18 with provisioning of 18 more.
Money dictates what you buy, otherwise we would all have Ferraris to drive in!

The main motive was to buy a credible modern fighter with minimum cost overheads instead of a totally new support setup, the F-16 filled the role perfectly.
Despite this a lot of training and new support structure will have to be provided.

other the there integration on jf-17 dun see any logic of 500 Aim-120c bvr if they are only to be used on f-16 as we will have ~60 aircrafts after recieving 18 f-16 c/d, Aim-120c are also used as air-to-surface missile but remeber we are not buying batteries this mean we are not using them for surface to air role

remeber our f-7 were made able to use AIM sidewinder

 

[ice_man]

I red ex ACM Tanvir Mehmood interview he said that Grippen were good but to b very frank we cant handdle its complex technology in case it had been sold to us with tot ,he also said jf-17 is same like grippen n at the time the new version of grippen will be introduced till thenn we already have our number of jf-17's operational then he concluded by saying that if i have to given option i will surely go for more f-16 and we will surely use our option of 18 more f-16 c/d given that we have funds

THIS my friend is the biggest BULNDER in the history of PAF!!! our fellow country SOUTH AFRICA also operated the MIRAGE IIIs before they bought the GRIPPEN! now if they can handle "COMPLEX" techonology" so can we both of us have had similar experiences gained from our previous platforms!!!

 

[Mani2020]

THIS my friend is the biggest BULNDER in the history of PAF!!! our fellow country SOUTH AFRICA also operated the MIRAGE IIIs before they bought the GRIPPEN! now if they can handle "COMPLEX" techonology" so can we both of us have had similar experiences gained from our previous platforms!!!

The problem is not over with this...Ex ACM also said that grippen has an influence of three countries i.e Sweeden, Uk and USA plus grippen is mainly an air superiority fighter ( current version however the nxt version NG willb multirole) and our needs are for multi-role fighter

 

[Karakoram8 Eagle]

The best F16 ever built is the UAE F16 block 60.

This F16 carries the AESA radar and the bbest AMRAAM 120D version of BVR miisle. It also has the most advanced ecm and elctronic warefare system in service in any FALCON in the world.

its THE LATEST and best F16 THERE IS.

uae BEING A BROTHER islamic country wud not have been an issue had PAF acquired this.

This is the only legacy USA fighter along with F18 s/h aesa EQUIIPED TOO that can go toe to toe against the SU30 MKI (THE BEST FLANKER) in the world.

F16/52 are a big jump from PAFs current 25 year old F16A/B but stil inferior TO INDIA,S BEST SU30 MKI.

yes you are right!

 

[Karakoram8 Eagle]

i dont think F-16 Nlk 52+ (with conformal fuel Tanks) is inferior to MKI
AMRAAM C5 has better NEZ (true usabale Range of BVR) then R-77 on MKI
F-16 will detect Su-30 first Cjeck the specification of APG-68 V9 radars on our future F-16's
the only thing for Flanker is its range that is not a prob for us if we r gonna fight a defensive war

Blk-60 has AESA true but MKI does no that why do u need to spend extra monet when we r not required to

YEs ofcourse...!

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 PM ----------

Pakistan never cut back on the order. The initial order was for 18 with an option to purchase 18 more which remains with us.

right..! you r right..?