Why China > Soviet Union

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Why China > Soviet Union - The Daily Beast

"Why China > Soviet Union

Your thread lacks a "=" sign, I think it should be changed to:
"Why China => Soviet Union"

 

[kawaraj]

Please understand this; the dynamics then and the dynamics today are very different. The resource levels, the level of competition, the level of global advancement in technology etc of that time was far lesser than today. Today every other country is coming up with newer and newer technologies that are giving competition to the dominant nations.

China has indeed moved to quality.

But my point is that it is not trade alone that makes a country a superpower. There are other softer factors as well as rough factors that come into play. USSR and US both successfully cultivated it.

China's not only trading with the world if you are blindfolded with this scenario on surface. China's seeking and sought all possible means of a superpower by the clank of "trading", or another form what those superpower did in Cold War.

China already controls better resources capability, some strategic harbors, political influences than the peak time SU. As a in tech person, China's tech overall is better than SU at peak time obviously. what China lack is pouring huge money into military or military tech fields.

But nobody knows how many nuclear heads China has, but it's certainly some amount that can erase the US from planet Earth, that's the last resort, borrowed a word from Martian2.

China is much mightier than SU, so the terminator of the US as time goes on.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The Soviet Union had a closed economy, and their GDP was constantly shrinking by around -5% every year, comparable to modern day Greece.

No wonder they collapsed.

The USSR only lasted from 1922–1991, one of the shortest lived nations in all of human history. They did achieve some remarkable things, I'll give them that, but how can you maintain such spending with a shrinking economy?

 

[jbond197]

China is much mightier than SU, so the terminator of the US as time goes on.

A Pakistani wish..

I think it would be better to check with Chinese about what you want to say on their behalf!!

 

[kawaraj]

A Pakistani wish..

I think it would be better to check with Chinese about what you want to say on their behalf!!

I would be equally happy if India can nail down the U.S. in the future.

trust me, this is from heart.

 

[Hello_10]

the military badassness of the Soviets.

It was blunt but yea thats true

I would like to explain this topic. one of the military badness of SU was explained by me on as below, post #247 :

US/ West knew that if not first then at least in response, Soviet/ Russia was definitely going to remove whole West, SU had confirmed it to US/ West, the reason why peace could be established during Cold War.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/irania...ircraft-carrier-returns-17.html#ixzz1z3wwAZLq

I know this is a very aggressive statement. but here, do you people know one more truth as below:

NATO has repeatedly rejected calls for adopting NFU policy, arguing that preemptive nuclear strike is a key option. In 1993, Russia dropped a pledge given by the former Soviet Union not to use nuclear weapons first.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use

I again explain you people another side of Cold War, and even right now also we may see a type of Cold War due to Syria/Iran right now. and here, first tell me why my this very aggressive statement is wrong to these NATO allies as below, my post #547?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...s-shot-down-turkish-plane-37.html#post3097747

talking about right and wrong is very easy but the Ground Reality is very different. yes SU had put Afghan and taken over it and even Indira Gandhi type Indian PM had put her military on the pakistan's border to engage US's ally, the Pakistan, and Indian/SU used indian military bases during that time to control over Afghan, true. but have a look on these NATO allies, how they try to capture different countries, like in my post as above while responding the NATO's ally on Syria issue. reputed NATO's allies like Turkey's members commonly say that "Yes we are arming Syrian terrorists, as we did in case of Chechnya also????????"

Yes I talk like a Gunda among these terrorists but I dont feel shame while doing this, . Badness and Goodness and the ground realities is very different. US/West want to 'Rule' the world, 'anyhow', and are ready to do every right and wrong to get their work done. and we dont want that . all these NATO allies, US/UK/Turkey etc are in the same group. right now Turkish government officials are arming the Al Qaeda terrorist working in Syria, backed by US and funded by US's Arab allies, as they always did. see how US won in Afghan, they trained/armed all these Al Qaeda terrorists, OBL was their own boy, and now they are fighting with the same as now these Al Qaeda of Afghan are against their father, while the Al Qaeda terrorists being sent to Syria is still working for these NATO allies

(Syria is the most secular state of that region and we support Syrian regime on principles. we support democratization of Syria but things would take in a proper way, can't something happen suddenly. at least not till all these violence being going on, sponsored by NATO allies. we won't like our friend states to surrender those 'Rulers' who may create so much problem there that finally Syria surrendered? in fact, democratization of Syria will result in the same as Iraq, if we will hurry. right now minorities there living very peacefully and majority also maintain full rights, freedom. but after NATO's take over Syria, it will become a mess at least for next 8 to 10 years.........)

 

[Sasquatch]

China still isn't at the level the USSR is while Economically it was surpassed there are many technological accomplishments it achieved that China has yet to do. But China has learned Important lessons from the USSR that it won't forget.

The Soviet Union had a closed economy, and their GDP was constantly shrinking by around -5% every year, comparable to modern day Greece.

No wonder they collapsed.

The USSR only lasted from 1922–1991, one of the shortest lived nations in all of human history. They did achieve some remarkable things, I'll give them that, but how can you maintain such spending with a shrinking economy?

Arms Race and Space Race they couldn't keep up, the USSR could have averted Collapse but one leader who was naive destroyed it.

For now Soviet Union > China.

 

[Alphacharlie]

Why China > Soviet Union - The Daily Beast

"Why China > Soviet Union
by Ryan Prior Jun 26, 2012 12:30 PM EDT

Members of the Guards of Honour of the Three Services of the Chinese People's Liberation Army march during a training session at a barracks in Beijing on July 21, 2011 (LIU JIN / AFP / Getty Images)

This week Michael Cembalest, chairman of market and investment strategy at JP Morgan, published a research letter with a graph showing the history of the world by GDP. It inspired Derek Thompson at The Atlantic to write a great series of posts. The charts show that population was the primary determinant of prosperity in pre-industrial society, but after the 1800s, productivity became significantly more important:



Even from just a cursory look at Cembalest's original chart, another interesting trend is visible:

Russia, which has a population approximately half of the U.S. (140 million), never rivaled U.S. GDP throughout the Cold War. China today boasts a greater share of world GDP than the Soviets ever did at their 1950s peak. And the Chinese share only shows signs of growing ever more.

Two important differences in the emerging U.S.-China rivalry as compared to the U.S.-Soviet one. 1.) The Chinese population is more than three times the U.S. population, while ours was double that of Russia. 2.) Chinese GDP is now booming as Soviet GDP never did."

Chinese are better in GDP to Ruskies no doubt but it. But one must also, bear in mind Chinese are also known to fudging facts.

In Terms of Nuclear, Space, Submarine design, Electronics & Communication, Jet Turbine Core Technology and Aeronautical Engineering/Design there will never be even an Iota of Parity.

However, in Automobile, Consumer Goods yes Mr Han has a phenominal lead...

Reminds me of Sun Tzu again "Never treat your Opponent weak, how mater strong you may be, some moles always exist"

 

[Jackdaws]

Yes they did, in WW2 they begged US and Britain to open a second front on Nazi Germany. And don't forget that Soviet Union received billions of dollars in military aid from the US under the Lend Lease Act, otherwise without this aid the Soviet Union would have become history in 1942-43, as Hitler said; "All you need to do is kick the door in and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down", until of course the US intervened.

The US role in World War -2 is highly overplayed - perhaps thanks to Hollywood. The country most responsible for the defeat of the Nazis was indeed the Soviet Union. Stalingrad became Hitler's waterloo. Of course it came as great sacrifice - Soviet Union lost more soldiers than ALL other countries combined and their scorched earth policy was also pretty brutal. Second biggest contribution was that of the UK which alone kept the war afloat when the rest of Western Europe had surrendered. Remember, at the beginning of the War - the Nazis and Soviet Union were allies.

America comes a third - yes, it tilted the war and yes, it poured in money. But to give them more credit for WW-2 would be a lie.

 

[Martian2]

Chinese are better in GDP to Ruskies no doubt but it. But one must also, bear in mind Chinese are also known to fudging facts.

In Terms of Nuclear, Space, Submarine design, Electronics & Communication, Jet Turbine Core Technology and Aeronautical Engineering/Design there will never be even an Iota of Parity.

However, in Automobile, Consumer Goods yes Mr Han has a phenominal lead...

Reminds me of Sun Tzu again "Never treat your Opponent weak, how mater strong you may be, some moles always exist"

You're crazy.

I'll address the first item on your list. China has the W-88 class thermonuclear warhead. As far as I know, the Soviet Union never possessed this advanced design.

----------

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/w88.htm

"W88

The W88 is a warhead used by the Navy on the Trident II missile. The W-88 is a miniaturized, tapered thermonuclear warhead. It is the United States' most sophisticated strategic thermonuclear weapon. In the US arsenal, the W-88 warhead is mated to the D-5 submarine-launched ballistic missile carried aboard the Trident nuclear submarine. The Los Alamos National Laboratory program to develop the W88 warhead for the Trident II 5D missile was completed in 1989. The W88 is one of two types of warheads on US submarine launched missiles. There are now nearly 400 W88 warheads in the stockpile and more than 3,000 W76s, the other warhead on US submarine launched missiles.

During the investigation into alleged Chinese espionage against the US nuclear weapons programs, it was disclosed that modern US hydrogen bombs use a non-spherical core. This is apparently a key technique in building miniaturized warheads. Two-point detonation is used on warheads like the W88. The W-88 has a non-spherical primary [the fission atomic trigger], a configuration first used in the W47. The primary is situated in the nosecone's narrow forward end [an arrangement used previously in some but not all American warheads]. The lithium fuel of the secondary has a spherical shape. (article continues)"

 

[WS-10 Engine]

The US role in World War -2 is highly overplayed - perhaps thanks to Hollywood. The country most responsible for the defeat of the Nazis was indeed the Soviet Union. Stalingrad became Hitler's waterloo. Of course it came as great sacrifice - Soviet Union lost more soldiers than ALL other countries combined and their scorched earth policy was also pretty brutal. Second biggest contribution was that of the UK which alone kept the war afloat when the rest of Western Europe had surrendered. Remember, at the beginning of the War - the Nazis and Soviet Union were allies.

America comes a third - yes, it tilted the war and yes, it poured in money. But to give them more credit for WW-2 would be a lie.

100% agree with you.

the soviet union contributed the most to the defeat of the nazis. americans came in later and claimed all the credit since western media is so powerful and influencial globally.
the soviets sacrificed enormous amount of lives to defeat the nazis.
the nazis unleashed everything and then some at the soviet union but still the soviet union absorbed all that and then gave the nazis all they could handle.

the people that truly understand this war will never forget the sacrifices made by the soviets.
i have the highest of respect for the soviets that fought to defeat the nazis.

the battle of stalingrad was one of the greatest ever battles in human history.
Never ever forget that.

Battle of Stalingrad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of battles by casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kalu_miah]

Of course China will surpass Russians, and may eventually surpass the US too. Most people can see the present but cannot imagine what the future will be like, that is the problem, its a mental block. All China needs to do is not get into a major war with the US and keep itself together in one piece.

One thing should not be over looked is that industrialization of the USA/West and even Russia is centuries old, at least 100-150 years. Whereas China just industrialized in the last few decades from an agrarian society. So to reach the level of human talent and stable social order, China will need time.

Trying to go too fast too soon, before China is ready for prime time, will cause problems for itself and the world, such as too much nationalism, arrogance etc. So it is better to go slow and steady and not be impatient.

 

[Kobalt]

Personally I think China's being a bit too modest here. There's tons of evidence to point out its major superiorities compared to the USSR.

Economically, of course it's surpassed it by a long shot! China's economic boom is nothing short of mindblowing. If it can rapidly industrialize its economy to the second largest in the world in twenty years, imagine what it can do in fifty, or even a hundred years if it keeps itself in a steady place--it gives me shivers just thinking about it.

As for its military strength, we haven't seen enough of China's present power to compare it to the Soviet Union's at its peak...that for which I'm glad. Considering what my homeland had to experience at the hands of the Soviets, I'm relieved China isn't hegemonic like its former rival.

 

[ayachyan]

You mean like sending Shenzou-9 taikonauts into orbit to conduct a manual docking and sending the Jiaolong submersible 7,000 meters below the ocean?

Or are you referring to how China took the world's-fastest supercomputer crown with the Tianhe-1 supercomputer last year?

Perhaps you are thinking of China's world's-fastest 350km/hr high speed trains?

Or is it the next-generation AESA radars to be installed on China's Type 052C destroyers?

Perhaps it's the next-generation Type 095 nuclear attack submarines undergoing tests?

Or are you thinking of China's 3-MIRVed DF-31A ICBMs or the almost-unveiled at 2009 parade 10-MIRVed DF-41 ICBMs?

Do you catch my drift? I have no idea what technological gap that you are referring to. China has a quantity gap in military arms with the United States. The military technological gap is disappearing fast.

Let me put it to you this way. Do you see that graph? What's the difference between India and China? Both have the same populations. However, Chinese technological levels are way beyond Indian dreams. It is China's possession of high technology that enables such a massive economy.

You cannot build a massive modern economy without high technology. Do you want me to show you a chart of China's $1.9 trillion in exports? It is comprised mostly of high-tech goods.

in Chinese domestic forum i would say "you know too much" and send our secret police to knock your door.

just a joke ,it is not secret police there and you can enjoy your breakfast at home tomorrow as usual.

recognize our word？
“hide the power waiting for the time”

BTW,i think to become a super power as the USA we still have many thing to do

some production facility used for building weapons or something you have mentioned in your posts are still need to be imported from JAPAN ,GERMANY or other countries.
because theirs are far more advanced than ours.
even some precision machine we can not build ourselves.
launching a satellite only means we are really good at playing those import precision production facility

please don't forget it
China is still a developing country

 

[ayachyan]

1st bolded part> i know. but still china needs to concentrate on technology

2nd bolded part> i agree. but we don't economy as big as Chinese economy. if we have economy as big as even 2.5 trillion $ things will be much different

even now we have build very good super computers like SAGA 220,PARAM,PARAM yuva and high tech weapons like Agni missiles, AAD shield, KALI and DURGA laser and Arihant SSBN

point is we simply cant spend as much as china on technology as we dont have massive GDP like china



3rd bolded part> and massive economy allows you to spend more on R&D

we spent much less than you in military when our GDP was at your today's level

there are more domestic problem you need to solve than in military