Who's killing India's Secularism?

[SirHatesALot]

ii. Very few people keep fasts on religious days - we consider THIS normal. Otherwise people are mocked as Swamis (for Hindus/Buddhists)

Come on most people do keep fast on major religious days ex Shivratri

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You do realize that Buddhism,Sikhism are all organized religions too right

Sikhi is to an extent organized. But the underlying theme there is also to attain Moksha. http://www.srigurugranth.org/0534.html
Buddhism has no single scripture that their followers are commanded to follow at the pain of divine punishments. Even Sikhi does not have commandments that carry penalties. Only for the Khalsa (that came later) are strict codes but that is a semi military order.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Sikhi is to an extent organized. But the underlying theme there is also to attain Moksha. http://www.srigurugranth.org/0534.html
Buddhism has no single scripture that their followers are commanded to follow at the pain of divine punishments. Even Sikhi does not have commandments that carry penalties. Only for the Khalsa (that came later) are strict codes but that is a semi military order.

or·gan·ized re·li·gion
noun
a structured system of faith or worship, especially one followed by a large number of people

You are confusing organized religion with abrahamic religions.Sikhism, buddhism are all organized religions including hinduism.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

or·gan·ized re·li·gion
noun
a structured system of faith or worship, especially one followed by a large number of people

You are confusing organized religion with abrahamic religions.

Ok. In that sense, you are right. By organized I mean as Organized as Abrahamic.

In that sense, every faith is to an extent organized. On a scale Indic faiths are less 'organized'.

 

[SirHatesALot]

a structured system of faith or worship

Hinduism and Buddhism isn't necessarily structured.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Hinduism and Buddhism isn't necessarily structured.

Shift goalposts.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Hinduism and Buddhism isn't necessarily structured.

 

[salarsikander]

Actually what you say is true for petty crime. Poverty related. For all communities. Countless papers have been published on this - the link between discrimination to religion inspired terror is non existent.

Naah, Kashmir is prime example. Iraq too is. Discrimanted, you lose everything, until nothing is left to lose and then you just don't ngive a damn anymore. If you're white. You're termed as mad, if you're brownie, you're labbeled as Islamic terrorist, ignoring nthe fact that your country and family NWA's bombed in coalition supported operation

But for a devout Muslim for example that is unacceptable. Compromise is a strict no no. This has created problems for centuries.

Cannot compare dharmic with abrahamic. Way too different.

 

[My-Analogous]

Who’s Killing India’s Secularism?
To beat Hindu extremists, India’s secularists need to champion equality before the law and accept that radical Islam is a problem.

The new Chief Minister of the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh Yogi Adityanath arrives at the Parliament in New Delhi, March 21. PHOTO: ASSOCIATED PRESS
By
Sadanand Dhume
Updated May 4, 2017 2:14 p.m. ET
7 COMMENTS

Minority rights in India are under threat. Scarcely a week passes without news of an attack on Muslims by vigilantes somewhere in the country.

Yogi Adityanath, a rabble-rousing monk-cum-politician best known for founding a thuggish private militia and whipping up anti-Muslim emotions, recently took charge of Uttar Pradesh, India’s largest state. On social media and on television, a shrill new breed of Hindu culture warriors makes no distinction between ordinary Muslims and a small, radicalized minority.

Against this backdrop, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has mostly struck the responsible tone expected of his office. Last year he condemned cow protection vigilantes who assault anyone they suspect of transporting cattle for slaughter. He has publicly praised Islam as a “great religion.”


But Mr. Modi’s support for Mr. Adityanath and studied silence over a spate of recent attacks on Muslims suggest a turn toward hardline identity politics ahead of national elections in 2019. In contrast, three years ago Mr. Modi won power by emphasizing economic development.

With the BJP ascendant—most serious observers expect Mr. Modi to cruise to re-election in two years—India’s secularists face arguably their biggest challenge since independence in 1947. A country long synonymous with pluralism may end up marginalizing its 172 million-strong Muslim minority, the largest Muslim population in the world outside Indonesia and Pakistan.

Not surprisingly, many members of India’s left-leaning intelligentsia simply blame the BJP and the Hindu nationalist movement to which it belongs for the upsurge in anti-Muslim sentiment. Reality is more complex.

As a large national party, the BJP accommodates many shades of opinion—from economic conservatives armed with Harvard MBAs to cultural hardliners preoccupied with battling Muslims and Christians. Mr. Adityanath’s elevation shows that the party has done a poor job of sidelining extremists who do not distinguish between the majority of peaceful Muslims and a radicalized minority. This begs the question: Why do so many Indians prefer the BJP to its opponents?

No single reason explains this preference, but it’s safe to say that the traditional version of Indian secularism associated with Congress has lost favor. More than 212 million people voted for the BJP and its allies in 2014, compared to about 129 million who opted for the alliance led by the left-of-center Congress Party. In March, the BJP crushed its opponents in Uttar Pradesh, nearly one-fifth of whose 200 million people are Muslim, by winning more than three-fourths of the seats in the state legislature.

Simply put, Indian secularism is in freefall. Those concerned that it will be replaced by Hindu chauvinism need to come up with a viable alternative.

For starters, secularists in the media and politics need to acknowledge that their model has failed. By not taking terrorism seriously, effectively condoning backward Islamic practices such as polygamy and divorce by verbal decree, and championing special rights for minorities rather than equal rights for all Indians, secularists have lost the moral high ground to Hindu nationalists.

Take Islamic terrorism. Instead of acknowledging that the global scourge affects India too, leading secular politicians do cartwheels to dodge the issue. After the 2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks, which killed 166 people, Congress Party General Secretary Digvijaya Singh helped launch a book that blamed the Hindu nationalist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (National Volunteer Corps), the Central Intelligence Agency and Mossad for the carnage.

Other party leaders support wild conspiracy theories impugning a decorated police officer who died in a 2008 shootout with terrorists in Delhi. Not long after the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States, another avowedly secular Indian politician from a regional party in Bihar engaged an Osama bin Laden lookalike to appeal to Muslim voters. Last week, Mr. Singh of Congress was at it again, this time blaming cops in the southern state of Telangana for allegedly driving Muslims to join Islamic State.

Moreover, Indian secularists tend to take a lackadaisical approach to reforming backward Islamic practices such as polygamy and divorce by verbal decree. Unlike Western democracies, India allows Muslims to follow separate sharia-based laws in civil matters including marriage, divorce and inheritance.

At independence, this was meant as a stopgap measure to give Muslim reformers time to modernize their customs. The lack of progress seven decades later gives Hindu nationalists a powerful weapon—effectively they are the only ones championing the idea of equality before the law.

A retooled Indian secularism would recognize these deficiencies. Back in the 1950s, it may have made sense for the Hindu majority to tiptoe around the sensitivities of the Muslim minority. At the time, Muslims accounted for less than 10% of the population. Islamic terrorism was virtually unheard of, and Islamists, champions of sharia law, were in retreat from Turkey to Indonesia.

Today, more than 14% of Indians are Muslim, terrorism is a global problem and Islamists are ascendant in much of the Muslim world. Secularists need to be tough on both terrorism and Islamism while nonetheless striving to ensure that Muslims are treated fairly as equal citizens. Unless they can find a way to do this, they should expect to give up more ground to the likes of Mr. Adityanath.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whos-killing-indias-secularism-1493920175?tesla=y

Blame Pakistan. The easy way to resolve Indian headache without solving it

 

[adil_minhas]

This is GOLD.
@salarsikander - like it or not, I appreciate honest answers.

You will always find honesty within a Muslim.

 

[salarsikander]

You will always find honesty within a Muslim.

Baniya will always Employ muslim as accountant, because he knows that muslim would never cheat

 

[adil_minhas]

Baniya will always Employ muslim as accountant, because he knows that muslim would never cheat

But salar bhai, aap (see I'm trying to work on my tu tarrak) Pakistaniyon ka problem kya hai?

Hinduon se takrar to hai. Woh jayaz hai.

Lekin aap logon ko hum musalmanon se bhi hazaar purani nafratein hain.

Bura mat manna Bhai, lekin mujhe to lagta hai aap, Haviz or kuch aur Pakistaniyon se baat karke, aur aapke Hindustani musalmanon ke baare mein vichaar sun ke, ki aap log Hinduon ko gande samajhte hain, lekin unke khauf se sahme hue hain. Dare hue hain.

Lekin Hindustani musalmanon se to aap yakeenan nafrat karte hain. Unhe kam musalman samajhte hai. Buzdil samajhte hain. Aur gaddar.

Aap lakh inkaar bhi karein, mera yeh nazariya ab mushkil se hi badlega aap logon ke baare mein.

Khuda Hafiz.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Naah, Kashmir is prime example. Iraq too is. Discrimanted, you lose everything, until nothing is left to lose and then you just don't ngive a damn anymore. If you're white. You're termed as mad, if you're brownie, you're labbeled as Islamic terrorist, ignoring nthe fact that your country and family NWA's bombed in coalition supported operation


Cannot compare dharmic with abrahamic. Way too different.

Point 1 - Jammu and Kashmir has a higher HDI than many Indian states. Jammuites and Ladakhis are also cool. Discrimination is not the reason. It goes deeper.

Point 2 - True, there can be no comparison.

You will always find honesty within a Muslim.

Thanks, I know it. More than honesty there is a feeling of 'I don't give a f'.

Both are fine by me. Growing up in a Muslim mohalla from childhood I am no different. I understand you. Which is why I am aware and willing to resist.

 

[adil_minhas]

Point 1 - Jammu and Kashmir has a higher HDI than many Indian states. Jammuites and Ladakhis are also cool. Discrimination is not the reason. It goes deeper.

Point 2 - True, there can be no comparison.


Thanks, I know it. More than honesty there is a feeling of 'I don't give a f'.

Both are fine by me. Growing up in a Muslim mohalla from childhood I am no different. I understand you. Which is why I am aware and willing to resist.

Frankly I do not know where you lived etc.

But we really do not waste our time with your kind. Socially.

A bit of interaction is unavoidable in daily life. But really, there is no connect or desire to do anything more than the unavoidable.

Sorry.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Frankly I do not know where you lived etc.

But we really do not waste our time with your kind. Socially.

A bit of interaction is unavoidable in daily life. But really, there is no connect or desire to do anything more than the unavoidable.

Sorry.

Bingo.