Who's killing India's Secularism?

[The_Showstopper]

It is the sheer hate that they live in India. They have tonface discrimination at every level, which makes them as such. I m saying this because I have lived in ME and know quite Indian Muslim s who proudly call them Indian, but they fall silent on discrimination. They're just confined to muakm majority poor areas and can't actually grow as community until and unless they have to become a very name sake Muslim. A terrible choice they have to live with after their ancestor chose to live here.
Its the age of Hindus. Its now their time to rule


Then you must refelxt upon yourself and adjust the tone.

I know your proud Indian. But sadly to say, keep your pride on the low and stay safe

I am not sure as to what picture you have in your mind when you think of Indian muslims but let me tell you that WE ARE HAPPY(Assuming that I speak for many Indian muslims) that our ancestors made the right choice in 1947. Yes we do have issues but our country's constitution has given us equal rights and I can assure you that there will be many Hindus who will stand with us in our dire needs. We have our share of Bigots(a few can be seen on PDF) hell bent on destroying our country's social fabric, so do you. So let's leave it at that.

 

[kathiyawadi khamir]

Against that's all yada yada Bollywood movienyounsee

Because if she prays to shiv jee. Then no one can help her. She's comiited unpardonable shirk. Mightnas well call her anything but Muslim now


And yourencrying and bitching for the mistakes your ancestors proudly did.

You or anyone for that matter cannot stop the rise of Hindus in their own country man. Its either your religion or their way of life.
I am sorry you have to face all of this

well, half of Indian Muslim visit Mandirs,Gurudawars,derasars etc. etc. are you saying that all these are not Muslims ? it will only help us more, i am not a Religious Hindu but your Alienating Indian Muslims will only make me happy.

as far as i know, only Allah have right to judge Muslims and a Muslim can not call other muslim apostate as it's crime.

india is, was and always be a secular country.

 

[adil_minhas]

I am not sure as to what picture you have in your mind when you think of Indian muslims but let me tell you that WE ARE HAPPY(Assuming that I speak for many Indian muslims) that our ancestors made the right choice in 1947. Yes we do have issues but our country's constitution has given us equal rights and I can assure you that there will be many Hindus who will stand with us in our dire needs. We have our share of Bigots(a few can be seen on PDF) hell bent on destroying our country's social fabric, so do you. So let's leave it at that.

You speak for me on the happy part.

But I am.more concerned than you on the bigot part.

I do not believe they are only a few. Or a fringe. Look around you. In the circle you move in.

We are in pre Nazi Germany.

And we are the happy Jews. Only not as wealthy ....

 

[SarthakGanguly]

It is the sheer hate that they live in India. They have tonface discrimination at every level, which makes them as such. I m saying this because I have lived in ME and know quite Indian Muslim s who proudly call them Indian

I have lived with both types of Muslims in India.

Discrimination is faced by poor people regardless of their faith. This goes deeper. In fact more well off and educated the person, the greater his/her hate. Less educated ones live among us, intermingling freely. Otherwise we would see a civil war.

@SarthakGanguly and @salarsikander have found soulmates in each other.

There is hope for India Pakistan aman yet.

Sarthak believes the wrong Muslims left during Partition and India got the bad ones.

Salar belongs to the good lot who left. And Sarthak is missing and ruing the past.

I don't hate Muslims. They are people. I have problems with ideologies. Not people.

Rest of your post is emotional/senti stuff.

 

[adil_minhas]

I have lived with both types of Muslims in India.

Discrimination is faced by poor people regardless of their faith. This goes deeper. In fact more well off and educated the person, the greater his/her hate. Less educated ones live among us, intermingling freely. Otherwise we would see a civil war.


I don't hate Muslims. They are people. I have problems with ideologies. Not people.

Rest of your post is emotional/senti stuff.

I am an emotional/senti person.

I write from the heart. From life.

I am not a defence expert. Nor a finance genius. Or a political analyst.

I am an Indian Muslim. Living in a rapidly sanghified India.

You are both my brother and my enemy.

Not you as Sarthak. But your ideology. And how it is poisoning my land.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

their "tolerance"

True. Since our faith does not have an institutional support (no Prophet/Pope/Caliph etc), one man rule chances are low. Even in philosophy this difference is accepted all over the world - the Oriental faiths and Occidental religions.

But only a part of it was tolerance. The major part (at least later) was the lack of a ruthless pursuit of the enemy. If the coalition that prevented the Arab invasions continued, we would have been spared of many ills we face today. Dharmics have a lot to blame itself for. We knew what happened to Persia, but still we remained complacent. We must these lessons.

But then what if scenarios are tough to foresee.

And how it is poisoning my land.

I agree with you.

Herein comes relativity. What you all poison, I call Amrut.

Dharma may yet reclaim this land.

I don't have high hopes on BJP. They are just another political party. But the people show promise. A greater sense of awareness, of unity, a resolve to make things better - that I can see. It is refreshing for me.

 

[adil_minhas]

True. Since our faith does not have an institutional support (no Prophet/Pope/Caliph etc), one man rule chances are low. Even in philosophy this difference is accepted all over the world - the Oriental faiths and Occidental religions.

But only a part of it was tolerance. The major part (at least later) was the lack of a ruthless pursuit of the enemy. If the coalition that prevented the Arab invasions continued, we would have been spared of many ills we face today. Dharmics have a lot to blame itself for. We knew what happened to Persia, but still we remained complacent. We must these lessons.

But then what if scenarios are tough to foresee.

What happened to Persia was better than what happened to our civilization. Agree to disagree.

In an ideal world, you should all have been Muslims today.

And this a world superpower. United.

Instead you resist and are stubborn. And we war with one another.

Across the border and within it.

 

[Soumitra]

you should also know that Jainaism and Buddhaism have mixed with vedic Dharma and Formed modern hinduDharma. for example Hindus visit Jain derasar and Bodhgaya and jain people also visit Hindu temple Regularly.

You know Buddha is considred one of the avatar of Vishnu. So Hinduism and Buddhism are joined

Hinduism is more of an evolving culture ( even after 5000 years) than an established religion

Yes hinduism is not a religion per se as you will consider Islam as a religion. I can go to a mosque or a church and still be a hindu. I can worship any of the 33 crore gods and goddesses or no one at all and still be a Hindu. We do not have one single book.

And what is wrong with evolving with the times? As times change your beliefs should upgrade and change. You dont want to still b using Windows 3.1 in 2017

 

[SarthakGanguly]

In an ideal world, you should all have been Muslims today.

This is GOLD.
@salarsikander - like it or not, I appreciate honest answers.

 

[sbh02]

Hindutva/BJP/RSS supporters like to call themselves as Indian nationalists.

They like to use the word "development for all" as proof of their Indian nationalism.

However, Kashmir has proven that basic human rights come before "development for all". You can have all the development in the world, but if there are no basic human rights for people; then it means nothing.

 

[HariSinghNalwa]

What happened to Persia was better than what happened to our civilization. Agree to disagree.

In an ideal world, you should all have been Muslims today.

And this a world superpower. United.

Instead you resist and are stubborn. And we war with one another.

Across the border and within it.

Rebelling against marauding islamic forces was generally led by Ancient VijayNagar empire and the marathas and sikhs started the large empires after a long reign of islamic empire it could only happen when believe is strong and the believe of self rule not a vassal state or culture led to successful repulsion of islamic forces and the British to were helpful as colonised india

 

[salarsikander]

This is GOLD.
@salarsikander - like it or not, I appreciate honest answers.

More like gold encrusted with rare diamond and with platinum lining.

But then again it is ideal world we are talking about. Ideal is something far from reality

Yes hinduism is not a religion per se as you will consider Islam as a religion. I can go to a mosque or a

No one said that me going temple makes me non Muslim. Learn before you speak.
Secondly, an significant person opinion doesn't matter. It is the very supreme court of India that has opened the discsuuion of defining hinduism. Which is more of culture.

This is where Islam differs. A word of god is something that is infinite in its wisdom. Is for all time to come. The things that were said n1400 hearts ago are still very much valid today and have been adopted by various progressive cultures

Discrimination is faced by poor people regardless of their faith. This goes deeper. In fact more well off

You get discriminatted ===> you have less opportunities===> you fall under lowest income category and the cycle replays itself in vicious manner, never ending.
So what made the discrimination take place in first place

But I'll take enough down before going down. That is my guarantee

Dying down is easy living up and continuing is hard.

well, half of Indian Muslim visit Mandirs,Gurudawars,derasars etc. etc. are you saying that all these are not Muslims ? it will only help us more, i am not a Religious Hindu but your Alienating Indian Muslims will only make me happy.

as far as i know, only Allah have right to judge Muslims and a Muslim can not call other muslim apostate as it's crime.

india is, was and always be a secular country.

First of all. Going to places doesn't make one any less of Muslims than actually praying to them. You have Muslims you must know this. Shirk is unpardonablle offense. Others can be forgiven but this is something that cannot and yes you no longer become Muslim. You must learn from @SarthakGanguly The guy knows when he speaks

I am not sure as to what picture you have in your mind when you think of Indian muslims but let me tell you that WE ARE HAPPY(Assuming that I speak for many Indian muslims) that our ancestors made the right choice in 1947. Yes we do have issues but our country's constitution has given us equal rights and I can assure you that there will be many Hindus who will stand with us in our dire needs. We have our share of Bigots(a few can be seen on PDF) hell bent on destroying our country's social fabric, so do you. So let's leave it at that.

Quite an emotional post. Maybe a tear went rolling down my cheek before I realised thatnwe live in reality and demanding something like this in this wretched part of world is too much. Isn't it ?
Kashmir serves as prime example. Indian Muslim majority states HDI and social status alone indicates how much happy they're. As I have mentioned previously. The only way to move in a Hindu dominated society is either become a less of muslim and commit shirk, you will get good head start or be one practising one and find yourself very marginalised.

Saying your ancestors took right decision is just fallacy to make you all happy.
Deep down you k ow the truth better. So no point of denying it

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You get discriminatted ===> you have less opportunities===> you fall under lowest income category and the cycle replays itself in vicious manner, never ending.

Actually what you say is true for petty crime. Poverty related. For all communities. Countless papers have been published on this - the link between discrimination to religion inspired terror is non existent.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Calm down.

I am only stating facts on the basis of reports that the world gets to hear.

If you have any clarification, please do make it.

Why being so defensive?

You know what I really don't understand? When people keep saying I am angry when my writing has conveyed nothing of the sort.

You aren't stating any facts at all. What does organized religion have to do with anything? You do realize that Buddhism,Sikhism are all organized religions too right?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The only way to move in a Hindu dominated society is either become a less of muslim and commit shirk, you will get good head start or be one practising one and find yourself very marginalised.

True from a Muslim PoV. In India, as far as I have seen, people are accepted if they take religion LESS seriously and COMPROMISE on several issues.

i. Hindus are expected to totally refrain from bovine meat. But opposing it strongly finds less support, even from hardcore Hindus or Sikhs.
ii. Very few people keep fasts on religious days - we consider THIS normal. Otherwise people are mocked as Swamis (for Hindus/Buddhists) and Mullahs (for Muslims).

Now this creates an issue. For Dharmics (without a BOOK), compromise is fine. We can worship at a mosque even and still remain a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Sikh because we believe that all ways to Divinity is equal. But for a devout Muslim for example that is unacceptable. Compromise is a strict no no. This has created problems for centuries.

Some of the richer Muslims can afford to do this (and move to non Muslim localities in upscale Bandra etc). But for many it is not possible. Middle class Hindus and Buddhists are still 'untrusting' of Muslims because of their perceived dietary habits.

Saying your ancestors took right decision is just fallacy to make you all happy.

That may not be the right statement. We know the overwhelming number of Muslims (at least 70 to 85% of Indian Muslims) voted for Pakistan in 1946. Only a fraction of them actually moved to Pakistan. Many stayed back in what remained of India. We need to accept this reality.

To be honest, it may be so that your grandpa may have voted for the Unionists in Punjab and his ancestors may have voted for ML. Statistically such chances are also higher!