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WHO WAS BEHIND LAHORE 3/3 Terror Attacks

Prior to 2008, all the money generated from Pakistan's stadiums on international tours actually were a great stimulant to the local economy.

Just for arguments sake, do you have figure of this stimulant? I dont doubt PCB was making money. But what was the magnitude ..for you to say that this was a stimulant to local economy!

In 2008 that stimulant left, but it was being picked up in 2009 by the Sri Lanka tour.

Someone didn't like the Sri Lankans being gracious enough to tour and targeted them.

Again , i will assume that you are referring to GOI as the "Someone" (From what i see in media, BCCI does not have any difference with PCB). Im not sure , but i don't believe there is any official statement from the srilankan government that they were pressurized by Indians to cancel the tour.

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And the more cricket isolation Pakistan has, the more ICL will gain players from Pakistan, and take those Pakistani fans and revenue to India.

You fail to understand basic cricketing economics.
Gosh... Are you saying that to attract more pak players (or rather to isolate them) , GoI will carry out this carnage? .. just so that we get more "Pakistani fans" and revenues. Maybe simple process of offering contract does not work.
 
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The only nation that has intrests to destroy Pakistan or show it failing is India. Afghanistan needs everything from or through Pakistan. Iran wants to sell gas and not a destable neighbour. Sri Lanka is a close friend. China is a big brother. US is pretty much busy with Afghanistan and with another 165 million people and nukes they would think twice...

India was laughed at the way they handled Mumbay which was probably their own action. Now they are after Pakistan. Direct or indirect...
 
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The only nation that has intrests to destroy Pakistan or show it failing is India. Afghanistan needs everything from or through Pakistan. Iran wants to sell gas and not a destable neighbour. Sri Lanka is a close friend. China is a big brother. US is pretty much busy with Afghanistan and with another 165 million people and nukes they would think twice...

India was laughed at the way they handled Mumbay which was probably their own action. Now they are after Pakistan. Direct or indirect...

It was accepted by GoP that the perpetrators of Mumbai attack are Pakistani citizens. How are you still able to say that it is probably a false flag operation.
 
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Gosh... Are you saying that to attract more pak players (or rather to isolate them) , GoI will carry out this carnage? .. just so that we get more "Pakistani fans" and revenues. Maybe simple process of offering contract does not work.

Yes, I'm saying it's a possibility.

The reason.. less money for Pakistan, less stimulus, less fighter aircraft, less defence development. India extends its regional powerbase.

Economically Pakistan will slow down even more, just when it didn't want to.

India on the other hand gets a couple of extra $$$$ from more IPL, more Pakistani fans, and is seen as the country to go play cricket in in South Asia.

I'll add here and now my predictions. Some disaffected Pakistanis involved in carrying out this, but planning purely in India, or from the consulates. I'd say the motivational evidence points to the evil hands of the planners being Indian.
 
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I addressed all of this in the previous thread mr indian.
I would have to drop acid for any of your reasoning to make sense from that thread; and that is just not my style... at least not on Tuesday afternoons. I don't even know what the mr indian is supposed to mean so I won't even bother.

roadrunner said:
The salient points were that the tours were picking up again post 2008.

Prior to 2008, all the money generated from Pakistan's stadiums on international tours actually were a great stimulant to the local economy.

In 2008 that stimulant left, but it was being picked up in 2009 by the Sri Lanka tour.
Your salient points are crap. You've obviously not been keeping up with the news regarding the recent spate of Pakistan home series' against SL and BD taking in empty stadiums.

Pray tell what realistic major upswing was coming Pakistan's way post 2008. All top level teams have refused to fulfill their ICC obligations and tour Pakistan. And there were no signs that any of these teams had changed their policy, if anything it was solidified after the Mumbai attacks. But if you really do know something the rest of us don't, you might want fill in Ijaz Butt on it considering the last few annual reports he inherited along with the PCBs projection from earlier this year all looked pretty dismal.

I don't know how many more ways there are to explain a simple fact.... The Pakistani cricket economy has been seriously sucking since 2006 and the supposed post 2008 improvement is merely a figment of your imagination as are the stellar stadium revenues. Nobody wants to fulfill their tour commitments to Pakistan except for BD and SL and these home tours have brought in nothing significant so far. There is nothing for India to cash in on. Nor are fan based revenues transferrable. They're already making all the money they can for themselves and everyone else.

roadrunner said:
Someone didn't like the Sri Lankans being gracious enough to tour and targeted them.

This is a point you conveniently decide to miss.
Yeah, because I don't waste my time on silly conspiracy theories to pacify some idiotic insecurities. This was a terrorist attack ostensibly orchestrated by one of the countless terrorist groups festering in Pakistan where unfortunately such occurrences are becoming more and more commonplace.

The ICL is a money spinner no doubts. And the more cricket isolation Pakistan has, the more ICL will gain players from Pakistan, and take those Pakistani fans and revenue to India.
While this is the only plausible (if ever so slightly) theory in your entire response, it seems highly unlikely for the time being. There is no market for Pakistani players in India right now, so I really do not see an increase of a Pakistani cricketing spillover into India until this delicate condition exists. There is however a slight possibility of seeing the ICL using the cricketing vacuum in Pakistan to enter that market. In such a case however the overall financial benefits for Pakistan would be greater than India. But this too is highly unlikely because despite all the hurdles and blackballing from the greedy cox at BCCI, the ICL still makes a lot of money in India which they will not want to risk. This of course is pure speculation on my behalf, but we'll see.

International cricket in Pakistan has been dying a slow death anyways and this entire thing had become an ego issue for the PCB. IMHO This incident as horrible as it was in the humanitarian sence may actually end up being a blessing in disguise for the PCB. Now they have no other option but to seek exile in another nation, something they should have put their pride aside and done a long time ago. And these are the three options in descending order of importance:
1. UAE- Lots of Pakistani diaspora with a higher level of income than in Pakistan who are cricket crazy. The UAE has been dying to become an international cricketing venue again. There are 3 new stadiums in Abu Dhabi, Dubai, don't know if they built a new one in Sharjah.

2. UK- Again, lots of Pakistan cricket fans among the diaspora with disposable income. This is the next closest thing most Pakistan players have to "home" so they know the pitches and conditions better than most other teams in the world (barring England of course). Also the ECB's arrangement with the Stanford group has come to an acrimonious end, and they've always felt bitter about being overtaken by the BCCI as cricket's most important national body, so I'm sure they'll be interested in setting something up with PCB.

3. West Indies- This one's out there (in more ways than one), but might be an interesting option. Both boards are cash starved and in need of cricket re-development so they might be able to work out a symbiotic relationship.

I'm hopeful; and I do think Pakistani cricket will go on (albeit in exile). India has nothing to gain from the demise of an already faltering cricketing setup in Pakistan. These are all very interesting topics, and if you are genuinely interested in them (not holding my breath) then you might want to follow up with Kamran Abbasi and the good folks at cricinfo.

roadrunner said:
You fail to understand basic cricketing economics.
hahaha ok... keep telling yourself that.
 
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What about the German woman who was gang raped by indians in india.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...german-woman-appears-before-indian-court.html

Man some of you guys are right our Indian friends really do pump up your blood levels to extreme high like they are with mine with these stupid and out of the world analysis the Indian government has only got itself to blame for the Mumbai incident for total security lapses and failure to protect its citizens likewise Pakistan itself is to blame for the security lapses when they knew there is political chaos going on and non state actors be it locally or external could take advantage of the situation the Pakistan government should have provided better foolproof security.

I hope sooner than later they catch these thugs because otherwise they will surely execute similar planned operation to tarnish the image of Pakistan and do more damage.
 
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60 suspects nabbed amid search operations in Lahore

Updated at: 0405 PST, Wednesday, March 04, 2009

ISLAMABAD: As many as 60 suspects, in connection with the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team, have been arrested and investigations are underway, police sources said on Tuesday.

Conducting search operations, the police raided markets in Lahore, capital city of Punjab province, where the attack occurred, and recovered arms from several markets.

Meanwhile bomb disposable squad also recovered dozens hand grenades, explosive materials, five suicide jackets, Kalashnikov, and many bullets from eleven separate places in Lahore.

Also, police teams have seized three suspected cars and a rickshaw believed to have remained under terrorists’ use during operations.

Speaking to reporters in front of the parliament house here, Advisor to Prime Minister on Interior Rehman Malik said the terrorists came from three sides and trapped the Sri Lankan convoy.

The police performed well and protected the players, Rehman Malik said, adding that the enemies of Pakistan wanted to destabilize the country.

The Geo News also reported that the intelligence sources had apprised the Punjab government of possibility of terror attack on the Sri Lankan team following which former Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif had issued orders to step up security arrangements.

A committee has been constituted to probe into attack and a report, in this regard, will be filed within 24 hours, Geo quoted a high-ranking official as saying.

The Sri Lankan cricket team was about to start their match in the second Test event against Pakistan when they came under attack by unidentified gunmen on the way to the stadium.

60 suspects nabbed amid search operations in Lahore - GEO.tv
 
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We need to ask ourselves the following questions:

Who would want to hurt Sri Lankan cricket players?

Who would want to hurt Sri Lanka's and Pakistan's friendship?

Who would want to eliminate Pakistan from World Cup 2011?

Who wants Pakistan to be isolated from the international community?

Who wants to destabilize Pakistan more than anything?

Who wants to ruin Pakistan's economy more than anything?

Who wants to ruin Pakistan's image in the eyes of the world?

Who wants Pakistan to be declared a terrorist state more than anything?


The answer maybe not that obvious to you but it is to me, its Pakistan's 61 year old enemy India (a.k.a hindustan bharat).
 
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I think India/RAW becoming reckless in staging the two latest atrocities to hit the region. The Lahore cricketer attack and the BDR Mutiny shows a new level of aggressiveness by RAW. How to tackle these?
 
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We need to ask ourselves the following questions:

Who would want to hurt Sri Lankan cricket players?

Who would want to hurt Sri Lanka's and Pakistan's friendship?

Who would want to eliminate Pakistan from World Cup 2011?

Who wants Pakistan to be isolated from the international community?

Who wants to destabilize Pakistan more than anything?

Who wants to ruin Pakistan's economy more than anything?

Who wants to ruin Pakistan's image in the eyes of the world?

Who wants Pakistan to be declared a terrorist state more than anything?


The answer maybe not that obvious to you but it is to me, its Pakistan's 61 year old enemy India (a.k.a hindustan bharat).

Nice to know that you aint no 'braniac on a nerd patrol'. People like you who just 'get it' straight from their guts and organs downstream thereof are doing a great service to humanity by taking up being internet warriors than those mere braniacs who work/slog their way by looking for and confronting FACTS to solve problems and look weak! Some people do have a vestigial organ in their cranial cavity. Unfortunately evolution is a very slow game, but still I hope it work much much faster in your case.
Godspeed.
 
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I don't know any better who did this, but...




Denial mode, yet again
Ejaz Haider


The only surprising factor in the Tuesday terror attack in Lahore is that the authorities did not anticipate it.

The security with the convoy was not geared towards responding to an ambush. In fact, the convoy was also vulnerable to other types of terrorist attacks — a possible IED (improvised explosive device) attack or even two suicide bombers strategically placed to ram explosives-laden vehicles into the convoy.

What does this tell us? The Lahore attack was a huge security failure at all levels — from poor intelligence to poor local protection for the convoy all along the route from the hotel to the stadium.

On the other hand, the attackers, according to what has been reported so far, were fully prepared. They struck on the morning of the third day of the Test, which means they had reconnoitred the route, surveilled the convoy, selected the point of attack, decided on the numbers they required and positioned themselves in a way that would allow them to fire at the convoy from multiple directions
.

The point of attack, the Liberty roundabout, offered at least three advantages: the convoy would have to slowdown; the area is open and allows multiple positioning and open arcs of fire; and, the attackers could extricate in all directions after mounting the attack.

If the report that one of them first fired an RPG but missed is correct, then we should be thankful. The RPG hit would have left a different story behind it. But leaving aside what is known and is being constantly reported on TV channels, the question is simpler: Why this security lapse?

Pakistan has been trying its best, and for legitimate reasons, to convince cricket teams to come and play in Pakistan even as the terrorist threat in the country has steadily increased. Some teams have refused to play in Pakistan; Sri Lanka decided it would. Given how much we need teams to come and play here, given also the clear threat of terror attacks, the Sri Lankan team should have been provided the highest level of security at every point.

The team was most vulnerable while travelling between the hotel and the stadium. This means securing the route against all possibilities: suicide bombers, IEDs, snipers, ambush etc. Not only should all possible points of attack have been identified, those points should also have been secured. There should have been aerial patrolling, which was done after the attack had been mounted.


These are standard operating procedures in situations that call for high security. That situation, unless we want to deny it, now obtains in Pakistan. There is also the element of what kind of target the terrorist would want to take out. International concern and condemnation as also the objective of isolating Pakistan and showing the state to be weak-kneed are obvious objectives.

The Sri Lankan team thus made an ideal target and the authorities should have realised that. But they didn’t and nothing was done to secure the route on the ground or from the air ahead of the team’s movement.

We can now be sure that the International Cricket Council, which has called for a review of the status of the 2011 World Cup, would be averse to allowing Pakistan to host it. That’s another huge blow to us.

This is, of course, one aspect of this episode. But there is another which is even more troubling, namely whodunit.

Predictably, some analysts have immediately put the blame on India. While at this stage no possibility can be ruled out, the fact remains that the responsibility for providing security to the Sri Lankan team was ours and we failed on that count. Even very high security may not be enough at times to prevent a terrorist attack. But precisely for that reason security measures should be as sophisticated as possible and try to stay ahead of improvisations by the terrorist outfits.

President Zardari’s praise for the courage of the policemen who died in the attack is an appropriate gesture but does not take away the fact — in fact highlights it — that proper security measures would have helped avoid the attack and save lives as well as Pakistan’s already battered image.

Second, if India is indeed behind this, its intelligence agencies should be commended for getting recruits from within Pakistan to mount an attack on the Sri Lankan team. Given how late the Sri Lankan team decided to play the Test in Lahore and the logistics and other requirements for mounting such an operation, the Indians didn’t have much time to put this together — in which case, if these analysts are to be believed, India seems to have done an impressive job.

The worst thing that can happen to a state is to go into denial. How long will we deny that we have groups that have run amok and whose obvious agenda involves destroying Pakistan as a nation-state? These are ideologically motivated millenarians, ahistorical in their approach and literalist in their outlook. They are trained, and societal attitudes transformed over three decades allow them to find recruits with alarming ease.

To point to India (‘khufia haath’ — hidden hand) without bothering to look at other evidence for which we now have a long trajectory, is not simply ignorance; it is deliberate perfidy
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While improving intelligence gathering for pre-emption and security procedures for tackling a threat are issues that need to be immediately addressed in terms of increasing capacity, the broader issue is linked to our societal attitudes. This is an area where the role of the media becomes crucial.

So far there has been no debate on this within the media, at least not in any structured manner. There are channels, anchors and a “select” group of analysts always at hand that, in conjunction, reinforce existing biases through obvious distortions, weaving a tapestry of conspiracies. What should be done about them?

Here’s the question: Should they be allowed to spread this poison on the basis of “freedom of speech”? Would this not be akin to allowing someone with a gun to start shooting on the basis of “freedom of action”?


Carl Schmitt, the controversial German philosopher and jurist, writing during the twilight of the Weimer Republic, was arguing that parties and entities opposed to the principles enshrined in the Constitution should not be allowed to operate. The liberals were opposed to his viewpoint. But that misplaced liberalism resulted in a transformation that led Germany into a period from which the Germans are still trying to recover.

Would we like to go that way or should we begin to ask ourselves some hard and tough questions regarding what it is that we want as a nation? It doesn’t seem to me that we are even clear on the issue of whether we are a nation-state in the modern sense. That requires self-reflection, not pointing fingers at others and distorting facts.

The attack has done its damage. But if something positive can come out of it, there may be less sense of waste, after all
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Ejaz Haider is Op-Ed Editor of Daily Times and Consulting Editor of The Friday Times. He can be reached at sapper@dailytimes.com.pk
 
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India unhappy with Sri Lanka's cricket tour to Pakistan: Reports
28 Dec 2008


COLOMBO: India is not happy with Sri Lanka's cricket tour to Pakistan, media reports said on Sunday.


The tour was hastily arranged by Pakistan after India refused to go ahead with the scheduled visit following last month's terror attacks in Mumbai. The then interim committee of the Sri Lanka Cricket (SLC) headed by Arjuna Ranatunga, which was later dismissed by the government, accepted the invitation to fill in for India.

But now after the government cleared the tour, Indian authorities have expressed their displeasure over the next month's series.

Independent Sunday Times quoting SLC sources said that the decision by the Ranatunga administration to undertake the tour "had irked the Indian authorities" and the matter had been discussed "at the highest levels in Colombo".

"These sources said that SLC also received clear signals that Indian authorities were unhappy with the move to tour Pakistan when they were having political problems with that country. They said they treated the Sri Lankan move as a snub on the Indians mainly as a fallout from the Indian Premier League (IPL) issue," the daily said.

The report said that the Sri Lankan sports authorities were forced to go to the foreign ministry to get clearance for the national team's tour to Pakistan next month "following a nose-dive in Indo-Pak relations in recent weeks".

With sports minister Gamini Lokuge briefing President Mahinda Rajapaksa "saying that the Pakistan tour had become a diplomatic issue". Rajapaksa then referred the matter to foreign minister Rohitha Bogollagama.

Bogollagama, however, has said that there was no "diplomatic pressure applied on Sri Lanka either by India or Pakistan" with regard to the cricket tour.

He has told the newspaper that he cleared the tour considering it as a "sporting issue", and that Sri Lanka promoted "people-to-people visits" among South Asian member states.

"If indeed there were security concerns, the matter has to be determined by the International Cricket Council (ICC)," the foreign minister was been quoted as saying.

Claiming that both India and Pakistan "are important factors in Sri Lanka's military and diplomatic efforts to defeat the LTTE", the Sunday Times said that Ranatunga has sought a meeting with Rajapaksa to present his case.

India unhappy with Sri Lanka's cricket tour to Pakistan: Reports - News - News - Cricket on Times of India
 
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Muse: This is a great article, but the one question it didn't address is regarding the assailants themselves. How is it that these groups are able to garner so many recruits who are willing to die in brazen attacks of these sorts (that they got away today because luck favored them is a different matter altogether).
 
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I don't know any better who did this, but...




Denial mode, yet again
Ejaz Haider


The only surprising factor in the Tuesday terror attack in Lahore is that the authorities did not anticipate it.

The security with the convoy was not geared towards responding to an ambush. In fact, the convoy was also vulnerable to other types of terrorist attacks — a possible IED (improvised explosive device) attack or even two suicide bombers strategically placed to ram explosives-laden vehicles into the convoy.

What does this tell us? The Lahore attack was a huge security failure at all levels — from poor intelligence to poor local protection for the convoy all along the route from the hotel to the stadium.

On the other hand, the attackers, according to what has been reported so far, were fully prepared. They struck on the morning of the third day of the Test, which means they had reconnoitred the route, surveilled the convoy, selected the point of attack, decided on the numbers they required and positioned themselves in a way that would allow them to fire at the convoy from multiple directions
.

The point of attack, the Liberty roundabout, offered at least three advantages: the convoy would have to slowdown; the area is open and allows multiple positioning and open arcs of fire; and, the attackers could extricate in all directions after mounting the attack.

If the report that one of them first fired an RPG but missed is correct, then we should be thankful. The RPG hit would have left a different story behind it. But leaving aside what is known and is being constantly reported on TV channels, the question is simpler: Why this security lapse?

Pakistan has been trying its best, and for legitimate reasons, to convince cricket teams to come and play in Pakistan even as the terrorist threat in the country has steadily increased. Some teams have refused to play in Pakistan; Sri Lanka decided it would. Given how much we need teams to come and play here, given also the clear threat of terror attacks, the Sri Lankan team should have been provided the highest level of security at every point.

The team was most vulnerable while travelling between the hotel and the stadium. This means securing the route against all possibilities: suicide bombers, IEDs, snipers, ambush etc. Not only should all possible points of attack have been identified, those points should also have been secured. There should have been aerial patrolling, which was done after the attack had been mounted.


These are standard operating procedures in situations that call for high security. That situation, unless we want to deny it, now obtains in Pakistan. There is also the element of what kind of target the terrorist would want to take out. International concern and condemnation as also the objective of isolating Pakistan and showing the state to be weak-kneed are obvious objectives.

The Sri Lankan team thus made an ideal target and the authorities should have realised that. But they didn’t and nothing was done to secure the route on the ground or from the air ahead of the team’s movement.

We can now be sure that the International Cricket Council, which has called for a review of the status of the 2011 World Cup, would be averse to allowing Pakistan to host it. That’s another huge blow to us.

This is, of course, one aspect of this episode. But there is another which is even more troubling, namely whodunit.

Predictably, some analysts have immediately put the blame on India. While at this stage no possibility can be ruled out, the fact remains that the responsibility for providing security to the Sri Lankan team was ours and we failed on that count. Even very high security may not be enough at times to prevent a terrorist attack. But precisely for that reason security measures should be as sophisticated as possible and try to stay ahead of improvisations by the terrorist outfits.

President Zardari’s praise for the courage of the policemen who died in the attack is an appropriate gesture but does not take away the fact — in fact highlights it — that proper security measures would have helped avoid the attack and save lives as well as Pakistan’s already battered image.

Second, if India is indeed behind this, its intelligence agencies should be commended for getting recruits from within Pakistan to mount an attack on the Sri Lankan team. Given how late the Sri Lankan team decided to play the Test in Lahore and the logistics and other requirements for mounting such an operation, the Indians didn’t have much time to put this together — in which case, if these analysts are to be believed, India seems to have done an impressive job.

The worst thing that can happen to a state is to go into denial. How long will we deny that we have groups that have run amok and whose obvious agenda involves destroying Pakistan as a nation-state? These are ideologically motivated millenarians, ahistorical in their approach and literalist in their outlook. They are trained, and societal attitudes transformed over three decades allow them to find recruits with alarming ease.

To point to India (‘khufia haath’ — hidden hand) without bothering to look at other evidence for which we now have a long trajectory, is not simply ignorance; it is deliberate perfidy
.

While improving intelligence gathering for pre-emption and security procedures for tackling a threat are issues that need to be immediately addressed in terms of increasing capacity, the broader issue is linked to our societal attitudes. This is an area where the role of the media becomes crucial.

So far there has been no debate on this within the media, at least not in any structured manner. There are channels, anchors and a “select” group of analysts always at hand that, in conjunction, reinforce existing biases through obvious distortions, weaving a tapestry of conspiracies. What should be done about them?

Here’s the question: Should they be allowed to spread this poison on the basis of “freedom of speech”? Would this not be akin to allowing someone with a gun to start shooting on the basis of “freedom of action”?


Carl Schmitt, the controversial German philosopher and jurist, writing during the twilight of the Weimer Republic, was arguing that parties and entities opposed to the principles enshrined in the Constitution should not be allowed to operate. The liberals were opposed to his viewpoint. But that misplaced liberalism resulted in a transformation that led Germany into a period from which the Germans are still trying to recover.

Would we like to go that way or should we begin to ask ourselves some hard and tough questions regarding what it is that we want as a nation? It doesn’t seem to me that we are even clear on the issue of whether we are a nation-state in the modern sense. That requires self-reflection, not pointing fingers at others and distorting facts.

The attack has done its damage. But if something positive can come out of it, there may be less sense of waste, after all
.

Ejaz Haider is Op-Ed Editor of Daily Times and Consulting Editor of The Friday Times. He can be reached at sapper@dailytimes.com.pk

That goes for lazy a** babus and politicians controlling Indian security forces too!
 
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