Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

assalam alaikum

I m tariq and can't go around and call myself barak obama persident of u.s. same with qadyanies ( even shia declared them non muslims). And btw qadiyanies call us kafir including u AM

TARIQ

 

[Sinnerman108]

How am I being 'Macho and insulting'?

You yourself claimed 'equal rights for minorities' and right after that refused to grant 'equal rights' to Ahmadis or other non-Muslim minorities in terms of election to public office.

So your claims of 'equal rights for all' are either lies, or at best you are a hypocrite for advocating 'equal rights' for those groups that are acceptable to you, and denying equal rights to those groups that are unacceptable to you.

Hypocrisy and/or lies - plain and simple.

Agnostic

Is it about Equal rights ? or is it about Ahmedi ?

As I have requested before,
Lets please keep "Ahmedi" out of it, and just try to contribute to the thread's title.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The funny thing is he is even mentioning the constitution where supposedly everyone and all parties have agreed upon...

Oh wait... The constitutions second amendment declares Ahmedis as non Muslims...

What a joke!!!

Exactly - second 'amendment'. It wasn't in the original constitutional proposal. You won't find me defending this monstrosity and travesty - I have criticized it often and called for its repeal.

We have codified in our laws open discrimination against a particular group numbering millions in our nation.

I was hoping that your high flying rhetoric of an 'Islamic System with equality for all' would also reflect the self-evident truth that discriminatory laws against minorities such as the Ahmadis are intolerable and unconscionable, but sadly it was just that - meaningless, hypocritical rhetoric.

I know where I stand on 'equal rights for all' - when I call for 'equal rights for all', I mean it. I don't differentiate between this group or that group because I don't agree with their ideology.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agnostic

Is it about Equal rights ? or is it about Ahmedi ?

As I have requested before,
Lets please keep "Ahmedi" out of it, and just try to contribute to the thread's title.

It is about equal rights and because the Ahmadis are denied equal rights (as are other non-Muslim minorities in terms of running for public office) it is also about them.

You cannot talk about 'equal rights for all' without addressing the issue of discrimination against Ahmadis.

I fail to understand why Muslims are so insecure in their faith, that they cannot allow millions of Ahmadis to call themselves what they want and preach their faith as they wish, and instead openly discriminate against them through laws.

I used to think that way when I was a teenager and in my first year of college - I wanted 'equal rights for all' in Pakistan, but then I would inevitably come to the issue of giving Ahmadis the same rights as others, and I too would refuse to consider doing that. It took a lot of introspection and thought to come to the realization that it is hypocritical and un-Islamic to deny Ahmadis these basic rights.

No matter how much one may disagree with their ideology, they are human beings and under Islam they are granted equal rights and we should not deny them those.

Without addressing these issues the whole argument on 'equal rights in Islam' is meaningless, and the West is correct in calling Muslims 'hypocrites'.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

That comment is clear in that in seeking to impose 'Islamic Law' you are looking at the Sunni interpretation alone. 'Accommodating all Muslims' means that the rest will be reduced to second class citizen status, whose opinions will not be taken into consideration in implementing such a system.

Sunni is the most accurate version of Islam. Nothing has changed from the core after Prophet Mohammed PBUH.
Our leader is Prophet Mohammed PBUH because Allah send him as our last and final messenger and no one else is worthy of fallowing be it Jinnah, Zardari, Mush, Imran Khan, BB, nawaz etc.
The point of Pakistan is to be ruled by "ISLAMIC" system not bunch of religion merged together simply because our prophet believed in one true system "ISLAM".

 

[absmonarch]

In Islam, only true follower of Quran is given 100% rights. Only those who follow true word of Allah are true Muslim. Others should accept real Islam not fake Islam.

If everything allow inside Islam then Islam will become divide and weak.

 

[Sinnerman108]

It is about equal rights and because the Ahmadis are denied equal rights (as are other non-Muslim minorities in terms of running for public office) it is also about them.

You cannot talk about 'equal rights for all' without addressing the issue of discrimination against Ahmadis.

I fail to understand why Muslims are so insecure in their faith, that they cannot allow millions of Ahmadis to call themselves what they want and preach their faith as they wish, and instead openly discriminate against them through laws.

I used to think that way when I was a teenager and in my first year of college - I wanted 'equal rights for all' in Pakistan, but then I would inevitably come to the issue of giving Ahmadis the same rights as others, and I too would refuse to consider doing that. It took a lot of introspection and thought to come to the realization that it is hypocritical and un-Islamic to deny Ahmadis these basic rights.

No matter how much one may disagree with their ideology, they are human beings and under Islam they are granted equal rights and we should not deny them those.

Without addressing these issues the whole argument on 'equal rights in Islam' is meaningless, and the West is correct in calling Muslims 'hypocrites'.

Look
the question of Ahmedi is different, and there are a lot many connotations to it,
None of which say any thing about finding ISLAM IN REPUBLIC of Pakistan.

So, lets either open another thread if you want, or re-open a thread we had some time ago.

But, my sincere request, lets just leave Ahmedi out of this one,

Lets find ways how Islam will be implemented, and what are the best practices.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

assalam alaikum

I m tariq and can't go around and call myself barak obama persident of u.s. same with qadyanies ( even shia declared them non muslims). And btw qadiyanies call us kafir including u AM

TARIQ

What you believe in private (Ahmadis are non Muslims) and what the State does (declaring Ahmadis to be non-Muslims and preventing them from calling themselves what they wish) are two different things.

I don't really care what you or anyone else thinks of my faith as an individual, I know Allah will be the judge of that and I have confidence in how I lead my life, with respect for all human beings and respect for their rights.

But it is a different matter when the State starts imposing restrictions on what I can say and do and what I can even call myself. Whether someone thinks I am a Muslim or not is irrelevant (so long as they aren't passing fatwas calling for my death) - I believe I am a Muslim and that I am walking the right path and the State has no right to prevent me from calling myself a Muslim.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

If the Shia (or any other) groups determine that they do not want to join the cause for an Islamic System

I am sure any muslim will prefer any form of islamic system over anything.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Sunni is the most accurate version of Islam. Nothing has changed from the core after Prophet Mohammed PBUH.
Our leader is Prophet Mohammed PBUH because Allah send him as our last and final messenger and no one else is worthy of fallowing be it Jinnah, Zardari, Mush, Imran Khan, BB, nawaz etc.
The point of Pakistan is to be ruled by "ISLAMIC" system not bunch of religion merged together simply because our prophet believed in one true system "ISLAM".

That is unacceptable - to unilaterally claim the superiority of one sect over others.

Please look at the sectarian violence in Iraq and Afghanistan and for Allah's sake end this nonsense or you'll drive Pakistan into the same morass - it is already happening.

Sunnis have a particular interpretation of Islam, and so do the other sects - leave it at that instead of making declarations of 'superiority'. Only Allah can make that determination and no Mullah, Ayatollah or Imam-e-Kaabah is Allah or has the authority to make that call.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

What you believe in private (Ahmadis are non Muslims) and what the State does (declaring Ahmadis to be non-Muslims and preventing them from calling themselves what they wish) are two different things.

You decide, Will prophet mohammed PBUH call them muslims? or the disbelievers?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I am sure any muslim will prefer any form of islamic system over anything.

Perhaps - that can only be determined through arriving at a consensus on the proposals for reforming the system. Without that consensus your comment is meaningless rhetoric.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You decide, Will prophet mohammed PBUH call them muslims? or the disbelievers?

I am not Allah and I am not Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), and neither are you nor anyone else.

Allah will decide when judgment day comes.

In the meantime the Ahmadis are not committing any crime, murder, rape or corruption because of their beliefs, so they should be allowed to practice and profess them freely.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

assalam alaikum

I m tariq and can't go around and call myself barak obama persident of u.s. same with qadyanies ( even shia declared them non muslims). And btw qadiyanies call us kafir including u AM

TARIQ

Thats what he would totally ignore to address me thinks...

A person not knowing the basics of who is a Muslim and who is not a Muslim wanting to discuss the Ruling system in Islam is like a man trying to reach the moon without knowing anything about rocket technology...

I dont expect him to understand half of what we are discussing here... One needs to know ABC before he can understand sentences...

Khair... who cares... We can continue our discussions amongst ourselves anyway... If he wants to call me a hypocrite abusing his position here as an admin, let him do so... He is obviously the example of secularist tolerance that is so widespread on this forum...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Look
the question of Ahmedi is different, and there are a lot many connotations to it,
None of which say any thing about finding ISLAM IN REPUBLIC of Pakistan.

So, lets either open another thread if you want, or re-open a thread we had some time ago.

But, my sincere request, lets just leave Ahmedi out of this one,

Lets find ways how Islam will be implemented, and what are the best practices.

I'm sorry, but 'equal rights for all' is a basic principle of an Islamic System and therefore is relevant to this discussion.

Please remember that on the other threads related to Ahmadis I and others had argued that discrimination against Ahmadis will eventually lead to discrimination against other sects. A lot of you disagreed.

Now what do you see happening here in the comments of Muhammed Bin Qasim and myth_buster?

One is claiming the 'superiority of the Sunnis', and both claiming that the Sunni interpretation should be imposed whether the other sects agree or not, i.e Sunnis are superior.

But if the 'Sunni school of thought is superior', then by definition the others are 'inferior' and therefore 'not Muslim' possibly.

See how this 'slippery slope' works? Hence the question of Ahmadi rights is crucial to the well being and long term harmony of Pakistan and all its peoples.