Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

[VCheng]

Actually, this reminds me of a great quote:


"Admitting ignorance is the most important first step on the path to learning, and learning in turn is the first step on the path to enlightenment."

 

[VCheng]

NO... please stop.. I need to get my camera first

You must have a great collection of photographs by now!

 

[Durrak]

Verily, the most truthful of speech is the Speech of Allah, and the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). The worst of affairs are those that are newly introduced, and every newly introduced affair is an innovation, and every innovation is a misguidance, and every misguidance leads to the Hell Fair_

 

[VCheng]

Islamic teachings and sources are being used for mere demagoguery in Pakistan, and finding fertile soil in a mass of ignorant and deprived citizenry.

 

[metro]

Islamic teachings and sources are being used for mere demagoguery in Pakistan, and finding fertile soil in a mass of ignorant and deprived citizenry.

sir, possibly its you who is deliberately trying to find something good in something that is extremely obtuse. just think about it.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Islamic teachings and sources are being used for mere demagoguery in Pakistan, and finding fertile soil in a mass of ignorant and deprived citizenry.

Its about time you start reading about Islam and stop making such ignorant comments for the sake of god. I am saying this for your own benefit. Allah has gifted you Islam (by family inheritance) so dont waist this opportunity. Allah has also revealed his Book Quran for us Muslims to fallow NOT JUST la ilaha illa allah.

 

[VCheng]

sir, possibly its you who is deliberately trying to find something good in something that is extremely obtuse. just think about it.

I have thought about it long and hard. There is nothing like true Islam. NOTHING.

Its about time you start reading about Islam and stop making such ignorant comments for the sake of god. I am saying this for your own benefit. Allah has gifted you Islam (by family inheritance) so dont waist this opportunity. Allah has also revealed his Book Quran for us Muslims to fallow NOT JUST la ilaha illa allah.

There is no need for you to worry about my benefit. My matters are between me and my Allah directly and I do not need you or anyone else to tell me about these matters.

Allah has gifted me with not only the inheritance of generations in the service of Islam as warriors, but please be assured that personally my life has been truly blessed to be in His service since childhood.

I just do not wish to advertise my religious credentials, for it is between me and Allah only, and for those who know me well.

Your calling me ignorant merely reflects on you Sir, not me. Think about that the next time you wish to assume a moral high ground with me, which would be totally unjustifiable if only you knew.

Please keep in mind that neither you nor I are the topic of this thread, so please stick to the topic.

I stand by my statement:

Islamic teachings and sources are being used for mere demagoguery in Pakistan, and finding fertile soil in a mass of ignorant and deprived citizenry.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I have thought about it long and hard. There is nothing like true Islam. NOTHING.

rrrrrright...

There is no need for you to worry about my benefit. My matters are between me and my Allah directly and I do not need you or anyone else to tell me about these matters.

Islam commands fellow muslims to help one another.

The Prophet (pbuh) described the Ummah as one body; if one member becomes sick then the other members of this one body will take care of the sick one
"The Believers, in their mutual love, mercy and compassion, are like one body: if one organ complained, the rest of the body develops a fever." [Bukhari & Muslim]

LINK

“Help your brother, be he a wrong-doer or wronged”. Thereupon a man exclaimed, “O Messenger of Allah! I may help if he is wronged, but how could I help a wrongdoer?” The Prophet answered, “You must prevent him from doing wrong: that will be your help to him”.

“The Believers are like one man: if his eye suffers, his whole body suffers; if his head suffers, his whole body suffers”.

Why did the Prophet say, “Believers are like one man”?

The Prophet said, “Believers are like one man”, because Islam wants the Muslims to be united, not divided. Strength lies in solidarity.

Allah has gifted me with not only the inheritance of generations in the service of Islam as warriors, but please be assured that personally my life has been truly blessed to be in His service since childhood.

This is between you and Allah..

I just do not wish to advertise my religious credentials, for it is between me and Allah only, and for those who know me well.

Allah judges mankind by their hearts and mind. thats what i think

Your calling me ignorant merely reflects on you Sir, not me. Think about that the next time you wish to assume a moral high ground with me, which would be totally unjustifiable if only you knew.I stand by my statement:

I can not force you to agree on anything.
Forcing does not win hearts and minds and thats why (most of Mullahs) and terrorists posed as muslims have failed miserably.

 

[VCheng]

Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

Given the present state of affairs, this is an important question indeed.

The role of Islam in the private life of its citizens is not the topic here, but rather the role that it plays in governance and social structures. There are those who would model this role after the western ideas of separation of church and state, and there are those who would want a total theocracy as pure as their ideal dating back to the early days of Islam. Caught in between these two camps is a nation of millions, sitting on crucial cross-roads of geography, history and future potential. In this nation where the majority of the population is illiterate, rural and deprived of basic needs of adequate shelter, nutrition, education and health services, this tussle is really between fairly small but influential camps.

One camp is the so-called elite, the educated gentry, who has enjoyed the best of everything that the country has to offer since it was created over half a century ago. This group pays lip service to cultural and religious sensitivities of the population at large and tries to carry on as if their privileged hold will last forever.

The opposing camp is the religious right, the staunch and rigid followers of a strict code that they wish to impose on all around them, whether they agree with such an interpretation or not. Emboldened by the events in the region since the 1980s, they see within their reach a prized goal: total control over a nuclear armed state, that can be subsequently translated into a launching pad to recreate an age old romanticised notion of a huge empire extending from South Asia to Northern Africa.

Caught in between these two camps is the battleground: the all-important armed forces and their various clandestine agencies, the corrupt and inefficient civil governments at various levels, and the political parties that are little more than loosely affiliated groups of thugs of various persuasions. These crucial entities have within them elements of both camps, creating an absolutely bewildering array of incoherent policies, abrupt reversals and tussles, conspiracies and machinations, aided and abetted by an equally bewildering array of foreign agencies and governments.

All of these parties know the power of Islam the religion as an extremely effective tool to mold and control the population at large. The armed forces use it as a motivational tool to inculcate the fatalistic desire for martyrdom in its rank and file troops while their superior officers play kingmakers and dabble in financially lucrative enterprises. The corrupt civil machinery uses it as the proverbial opium of the masses who can be relied upon to take all the indignities heaped upon them by those whose duty it is to serve them, with nary a complaint, while it continues to enrich and perpetuate itself. The political parties use it as a cloak to hide their naked lust for power and control, to be dropped as soon as they are able to grab the coveted seats of government, only to be conveniently reused when unceremoniously dismissed by the military overlords in conjunction with foreign influences and the opposing teams of thugs.

So there you have it, the convoluted and unpalatable answer: Islam in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is no more than a useful tool, cynically and endlessly used by all those who have a stake in the game.

Except of course, the millions who just wish to be able to lead an honest and simple life with dignity, for whom it is truly a saviour, for it gives them the forbearance to put up with the truly adverse circumstances prevailing today, and even gives them hope that the future may possibly be better than what it appears to be, by some miracle that probably will never materialise.

 

[metro]

I have thought about it long and hard. There is nothing like true Islam. NOTHING.

sir i would appreciate if u could share some of ure findings about true islam here.
i reall want to know more about it.
and please, dont take it as sarcasm, im quite serious about it.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

Given the present state of affairs, this is an important question indeed.

The role of Islam in the private life of its citizens is not the topic here, but rather the role that it plays in governance and social structures. There are those who would model this role after the western ideas of separation of church and state, and there are those who would want a total theocracy as pure as their ideal dating back to the early days of Islam. Caught in between these two camps is a nation of millions, sitting on crucial cross-roads of geography, history and future potential. In this nation where the majority of the population is illiterate, rural and deprived of basic needs of adequate shelter, nutrition, education and health services, this tussle is really between fairly small but influential camps.

One camp is the so-called elite, the educated gentry, who has enjoyed the best of everything that the country has to offer since it was created over half a century ago. This group pays lip service to cultural and religious sensitivities of the population at large and tries to carry on as if their privileged hold will last forever.

The opposing camp is the religious right, the staunch and rigid followers of a strict code that they wish to impose on all around them, whether they agree with such an interpretation or not. Emboldened by the events in the region since the 1980s, they see within their reach a prized goal: total control over a nuclear armed state, that can be subsequently translated into a launching pad to recreate an age old romanticised notion of a huge empire extending from South Asia to Northern Africa.

Caught in between these two camps is the battleground: the all-important armed forces and their various clandestine agencies, the corrupt and inefficient civil governments at various levels, and the political parties that are little more than loosely affiliated groups of thugs of various persuasions. These crucial entities have within them elements of both camps, creating an absolutely bewildering array of incoherent policies, abrupt reversals and tussles, conspiracies and machinations, aided and abetted by an equally bewildering array of foreign agencies and governments.

All of these parties know the power of Islam the religion as an extremely effective tool to mold and control the population at large. The armed forces use it as a motivational tool to inculcate the fatalistic desire for martyrdom in its rank and file troops while their superior officers play kingmakers and dabble in financially lucrative enterprises. The corrupt civil machinery uses it as the proverbial opium of the masses who can be relied upon to take all the indignities heaped upon them by those whose duty it is to serve them, with nary a complaint, while it continues to enrich and perpetuate itself. The political parties use it as a cloak to hide their naked lust for power and control, to be dropped as soon as they are able to grab the coveted seats of government, only to be conveniently reused when unceremoniously dismissed by the military overlords in conjunction with foreign influences and the opposing teams of thugs.

So there you have it, the convoluted and unpalatable answer: Islam in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is no more than a useful tool, cynically and endlessly used by all those who have a stake in the game.

Except of course, the millions who just wish to be able to lead an honest and simple life with dignity, for whom it is truly a saviour, for it gives them the forbearance to put up with the truly adverse circumstances prevailing today, and even gives them hope that the future may possibly be better than what it appears to be, by some miracle that probably will never materialise.

Wonderful... you summed it up very well..
All what you have said is true except the people of Pakistan who themselves are equally to be blamed for supporting such a corrupt system. But you are right. they are illiterate uneducated lack comprehension and some remain innocent thus cant decide on their own on this matter.
The blame is equally to be blamed on Jinnah who established Colonial ruling systems in all parts of Pakistan. Mohammed Alama Iqbal would have been much much much better for Pakistan instead of Jinnah simply because he believed in true Islamic system not weak corrupt colonial british systems. Pakistanis are given illusions that Jinnah was a true saint leader but in fact (according to me) become influenced by British systems and only then Britain agreed to give independence to Pakistan.

Pakistani Muslims require proper education of Islam (spiritual aspect aside).
I mean for god sake, their is hardly 2 or 3 good Islamic institutes in Pakistan which actually educates students rather brainwash them with radical ideas or simple make student memorize Quran, notes, subjects without even making sure what have they learned.
Basically Pakistani education system need a make over in fact entire Pakistani corrupt colonial system needs a makeover and I dont think its gonna happen over night neither anytime soon in the near future.
Pakistan is not Jinnah's property.

 

[Durrak]

Wonderful... you summed it up very well..
All what you have said is true except the people of Pakistan who themselves are equally to be blamed for supporting such a corrupt system. But you are right. they are illiterate uneducated lack comprehension and some remain innocent thus cant decide on their own on this matter.

Yes you are absolutely right people see what leaders want to show them.They have become blind from other aspects.Bad luck of our country

The blame is equally to be blamed on Jinnah who established Colonial ruling systems in all parts of Pakistan. Mohammed Alama Iqbal would have been much much much better for Pakistan instead of Jinnah simply because he believed in true Islamic system not weak corrupt colonial british systems.

May be in his opinion it was a need of time

 

[VCheng]

sir i would appreciate if u could share some of ure findings about true islam here.
i reall want to know more about it.
and please, dont take it as sarcasm, im quite serious about it.

If you are interested in learning more, I can suggest the work of Marmaduke Pickthall (1875-1936) as a suitable starting point.

This is the man:

The True Call - ISLAM - Marmaduke Pickthall

and this is his seminal work:

Amazon.com: The Koran (Everyman's Library) (9780679417361): Marmaduke Pickthall: Books

My point is to direct you to the primary source: The Koran itself. Read it all, and decide for yourself.

You can always PM or email me for any other information or questions as you learn more.

I wish you good luck in your quest for knowledge.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

May be in his opinion it was a need of time

Remember, Britain's main goal was to weaken the Muslim ummah by splitting them into many states. They made sure no Muslim nation that was formed during or after the collapse of British empire had Islamic ruling system (ummah Kalifah) which could merge together and once again become prospering ummah. During 1600-1700 Period the west prospered while Muslims of the subcontinent (and world wide) became lazy, greedy, more interested in spending wealth in useless things prime example "taj mahal". Muslims slowly turned away from the true values of Islam and its teachings and eventually all that resulted in the collapse of Ummah. Muslims occupied majority of Indian subcontinent but I believe Hindus and Sikh were more in numbers but in smaller region. In order to make sure the Muslims of subcontinent would never rise again (as a prospering nation) they divided the land and indirectly created rift among ourselves prime example ethnicity. Thats why muslims today in Pakistan are so ignorant. First they identify themselves as proud "pathan punjabi balochi etc" then Pakistani and then indirect importance of Islam (not talking about the spiritual aspect as only Allah can judge that).
This is where Pakistan comes from. Scattered nations, ethnicity, castes, etc has no importance in Islam. The Prophet said, “Believers are like one man”, because Islam wants the Muslims to be united, not divided. Strength lies in solidarity.
Coming back to Jinnah. It should be clear now the reason why Britian gave independence to Pakistan was because "Jinnah agreed on colonial ruling system" and nothing more. Only Mohammed Alama Iqbal supported the concept of true Islam for Pakistan. Jinnah did support this idea but I believe only to win hearts and minds of the muslims. If Mohammed Alama Iqbal was on Jinnah's place I believe he could have agreed upon British demands (just to get independence) but right after independence he would CHANGE THE COURSE OF PAKISTAN! He then would deliver clear message with actions that Pakistan's Ideology is based on true meaning of Islam and implemented the system which Jinnah failed to deliver.
Think of Pakistan as a "Colonial British" product which needs to be changed.
hey their is so much stuff i wanna talk about, but i am afraid i may hurt peoples sentiments.

Like i said. Pakistan's makeover cant be done over night neither by FORCE this is what jahil mullahs and their supporters fail to understand. And plus their ideologies misrepresent Islam. They have mixed culture their own fed up interpretation with the religion.
Its gonna be a slow and fast process. Education is very essential and this time it should be made sure that the people "UNDERSTAND" and can make their own decision.

 

[pak-marine]

Remember, Britain's main goal was to weaken the Muslim ummah by splitting them into many states. They made sure no Muslim nation that was formed during or after the collapse of British empire had Islamic ruling system (ummah Kalifah) which could merge together and once again become prospering ummah. During 1600-1700 Period the west prospered while Muslims of the subcontinent (and world wide) became lazy, greedy, more interested in spending wealth in useless things prime example "taj mahal". Muslims slowly turned away from the true values of Islam and its teachings and eventually all that resulted in the collapse of Ummah. Muslims occupied majority of Indian subcontinent but I believe Hindus and Sikh were more in numbers but in smaller region. In order to make sure the Muslims of subcontinent would never rise again (as a prospering nation) they divided the land and indirectly created rift among ourselves prime example ethnicity. Thats why muslims today in Pakistan are so ignorant. First they identify themselves as proud "pathan punjabi balochi etc" then Pakistani and then indirect importance of Islam (not talking about the spiritual aspect as only Allah can judge that).
This is where Pakistan comes from. Scattered nations, ethnicity, castes, etc has no importance in Islam. The Prophet said, “Believers are like one man”, because Islam wants the Muslims to be united, not divided. Strength lies in solidarity.
Coming back to Jinnah. It should be clear now the reason why Britian gave independence to Pakistan was because "Jinnah agreed on colonial ruling system" and nothing more. Only Mohammed Alama Iqbal supported the concept of true Islam for Pakistan. Jinnah did support this idea but I believe only to win hearts and minds of the muslims. If Mohammed Alama Iqbal was on Jinnah's place I believe he could have agreed upon British demands (just to get independence) but right after independence he would CHANGE THE COURSE OF PAKISTAN! He then would deliver clear message with actions that Pakistan's Ideology is based on true meaning of Islam and implemented the system which Jinnah failed to deliver.
Think of Pakistan as a "Colonial British" product which needs to be .

all above you mentioned yet you still live in Britain ?