What's new

What if Hitler Never Declared War on America?

Nobody f**kn cares about british voters. He is responsible for hundreds and thousands of deaths in british india. Heisnt a hero, he is a murderer.

i never said churchill was a hero. do not put churchill in the same pedestal as hitler or stalin. hitler and stalin couldn't trust their countrymen.

do you want to guess the death toll in India if japanese or germans had taken over ?

Well, USA still occupies half of Europe - it is more then suspicious. And it is not like that countries took part in the henocide against USA people. Just occupation of countries on the other side of the globe for the sake of world domination and hegemony.

It is amazing people on this forum always want to speak for others. Tell that to the West Europeans. they must have missed the memo on occupation.

For the Europeans USA is an insurance policy against Russia. it is simple.
 
.
It is amazing people on this forum always want to speak for others. Tell that to the West Europeans. they must have missed the memo on occupation.

For the Europeans USA is an insurance policy against Russia. it is simple.
Sure. It was Russia who attacked Germany and France. Not vice versa.
By the way - do you really think Germany and France are small banana republics who need your "potection"?
Small profecy from me - when your forces leave Europe they will blame you in all their problems. And they will call it occupation.
 
.
Sure. It was Russia who attacked Germany and France. Not vice versa.
By the way - do you really think Germany and France are small banana republics who need your "potection"?
Small profecy from me - when your forces leave Europe they will blame you in all their problems. And they will call it occupation.

There are no American troops in France. They ordered Americans out in 1965

It is irrelevant who attacked whom. What mattered was Soviet Union suppressed East Europeans.
 
.
There are no American troops in France. They ordered Americans out in 1965

It is irrelevant who attacked whom. What mattered was Soviet Union suppressed East Europeans.
But they are in NATO - so, under your protection. There are neutral states in Europe who are not banana republics and they can take care of themselves - Swiss, Finland, Sweden. I do not think Germany and France are weaker.
So what are you doing in Germany or in Norway - you defend them from Russia? And what did you do there in 1994 when Russia was in collapse?
You can call it "protection" but people call it occupation. When your power will fall - all this states where your troops were located will call you occupants and supressors.
 
.
Hitler is no general
He was the supreme commander of the German armed forces throughout the duration of the war.
He had a warped mind for a German nationalist.
Okay, well that's your opinion.

But in reality, Hitler was inspired by the American Dream, the one when an entire continent was taken over by European colonists and the natives relegated to reservations. A very inspiring story from what Americans tell me. :tup:

Churchill never had to worry about a countryman killing him. No one could say that for Hitler.
Julius Caesar also had enemies within, so did Cyrus, so did Alexander, so did Napoleon, etc..

Men with influence have powerful enemies.

Churchill on the other hand was a mere puppet with personal financial debt.

Churchill never had to worry about a countryman killing him. No one could say that for Hitler.
Hitler met with armed soldiers on many occasions without ever having them disarmed.

The only people who tried to kill Hitler were the aristocrats only because they believed doing so would bring peace with western allies, which was a retarded belief.

Robert Lee fought for his people - Confederacy. He did not think secession was a good idea. He did not commit mass murder in pursuit of war. He could not see slavery is wrong. Beyond that he was not terribly evil. After the civil war he encouraged peace.
If you said this on any American college campus today you would be labeled a Nazi, you would lose your job, and for the rest of your life you and your family would be harassed.

What were once milquetoast views are now considered Nazi KKK views :lol: .

History is a narrative controlled by those in political power. Only sheeple take the mainstream narrative at face value. There is nothing wrong with looking at both perspectives and coming to your own conclusions, even if they are non-conventional.
He did not commit mass murder in pursuit of war.
The civil war was mostly between two armies, up until Sherman and his army marched and plundered, looted and torched their way down south.

Lee was a gentleman, thank God he was on the side of the South.
 
.
He was the supreme commander of the German armed forces throughout the duration of the war.
He was utterly incompetent at that.

But in reality, Hitler was inspired by the American Dream, the one when an entire continent was taken over by European colonists and the natives relegated to reservations. A very inspiring story from what Americans tell me. :tup:
The main difference is that he failed. America succeeded.


Julius Caesar also had enemies within, so did Cyrus, so did Alexander, so did Napoleon, etc..

Men with influence have powerful enemies.

Churchill on the other hand was a mere puppet with personal financial debt.

Elected leaders are puppets of the masses who elected them. that is the bloody nature of the job. I would not expect you to understand that.

No one in Germany thinks much of Hitler. you seem more eager to support Hitler than the very people he claimed to represent
What else is new on PDF ??

But they are in NATO - so, under your protection. There are neutral states in Europe who are not banana republics and they can take care of themselves - Swiss, Finland, Sweden. I do not think Germany and France are weaker.
So what are you doing in Germany or in Norway - you defend them from Russia? And what did you do there in 1994 when Russia was in collapse?
You can call it "protection" but people call it occupation. When your power will fall - all this states where your troops were located will call you occupants and supressors.

Which People ?? Putin's henchmen.

these countries can order USA out. They are extremely well educated. they can speak for themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_deployments
There are 356 US military personnel in Norway. When Germany occupied Norway they deployed 300,000 troops

russia might not like it because you cannot blackmail them and extort money from them.
 
.
He was utterly incompetent at that.
That's debatable
The main difference is that he failed. America succeeded.
So then you agree he wasn't doing anything wrong, only that he failed at it. Cool, glad we're on the same page
Elected leaders are puppets of the masses who elected them. that is the bloody nature of the job. I would not expect you to understand that.
Hitler was elected in 1933
No one in Germany thinks much of Hitler.
That's because Germans have been brainwashed to hate themselves for the last 70 years

you seem more eager to support Hitler than the very people he claimed to represent
That's false. Im allowed to come to different conclusions based on my own effort to learn and understand history from an objective and non-biased standpoint.
 
.
That's debatable

So then you agree he wasn't doing anything wrong, only that he failed at it. Cool, glad we're on the same page

Hitler was elected in 1933

That's because Germans have been brainwashed to hate themselves for the last 70 years


That's false. Im allowed to come to different conclusions based on my own effort to learn and understand history from an objective and non-biased standpoint.

I did not say he was not wrong. He failed at it. I am trying to show Hitler was incompetent who exploit the times for his narrow advantages. Hitler was never given a full majority in 1933.

Again we are speaking for others.
"That's because Germans have been brainwashed to hate themselves for the last 70 years"

Germans are smart. They did what they have to do to reunite their country. They rebuilt their nation to become the most powerful state in Europe.

You are allowed to come to your own conclusion based on facts and observations. But I would assume you would speak to the Germans before deciding Hitler was a great leader for them. If you want to decide if Hitler was a great military commander you may want to study the WW2 archives and listen to what his generals think about him.

From my standpoint Hitler lost 1/3 of Germany for good - Silesia, Pommerania, Danzig and East Prussia. He stained good name of Germany with mass murder. He lost millions of German lives in the process. Nothing you say good about Hitler changes any of these.
 
.
Which People ?? Putin's henchmen.

these countries can order USA out. They are extremely well educated. they can speak for themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_deployments
There are 356 US military personnel in Norway. When Germany occupied Norway they deployed 300,000 troops

russia might not like it because you cannot blackmail them and extort money from them.
So Russia is blackmailing Swiss or Sweden or Ireland and extort money from them? You know that Germany do not need your "protection" - do not you? You have absolutely zero reasons to hold your occupation forces in Europe - it is only your lust for power, your desire to be world tyran amd hegemon.
 
Last edited:
.
So Russia is blackmailing Swiss or Sweden or Ireland and extort money from them? You know that Germany do not need your "protection" - do not you? You have absolutely zero reasons to hold your occupation forces in Europe - it is only your lust for power, your desire to be world tyran amd hegemon.

It is hard for Russian troops to get to Switzerland or Ireland bypassing all those NATO states

it is upto the Germans to decide fate of American occupation troops
there are 60,000 American troops in Europe occupying a continent of 350 million people.

If Russia is not planning to extort money why would Russia be worried about 60,000 American troops in Europe.
 
.
It is hard for Russian troops to get to Switzerland or Ireland bypassing all those NATO states

it is upto the Germans to decide fate of American occupation troops
there are 60,000 American troops in Europe occupying a continent of 350 million people.

If Russia is not planning to extort money why would Russia be worried about 60,000 American troops in Europe.
What about Finland? Is it hard for Russia to get there?
Well - it does not really matter how many occupation troops you have there. British also had not much occupation forces in India.
Why should Russia worry about US troops near our own borders? Good joke. You got some sence of humor I must admit.
 
.
What about Finland? Is it hard for Russia to get there?
Well - it does not really matter how many occupation troops you have there. British also had not much occupation forces in India.
Why should Russia worry about US troops near our own borders? Good joke. You got some sence of humor I must admit.

When Indians wanted out the British could not suppress Indians with such a small force

"Why should Russia worry about US troops near our own borders?"
Replace US with Russia. Replace Russia with Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine. You will get the same feeling
 
.

by Robert Farley

If, despite all this, Germany and Italy had somehow managed to avoid an open declaration of war against the United States, conflict would have continued in the North Atlantic. The U.S. would have continued to supply Britain and the Soviet Union with war material, potentially with somewhat more secure lines of supply, especially if the Germans continued to avoid attacks along the Atlantic seaboard.

What if Germany had never declared war on the United States during World War II?

Scholars and analysts have long wondered whether this represented one of the great “what-ifs” of World War II; could the Germans have kept the United States out of the war, or at least undercut popular support for fighting in the European Theater, by declining to join the Japanese offensive?


Was the decision to declare war on the United States, effectively relieving the Roosevelt administration of the responsibility of mobilizing American sentiment for war in Europe, among Hitler’s greatest blunders?

Probably not. Washington and Berlin agreed that war was inevitable; the only question was who would fire the first shots.


At War:

The United States and Germany were at war in all but name well before December 1941. Since early 1941 (at least) the United States had shipped war material and economic goods to the United Kingdom, enabling the British government to carry on with the war. American soldiers, sailors, and airmen served in the British armed forces, albeit not in great numbers. And in the late summer of 1941, the United States effectively found itself at war in the Battle of the Atlantic. The Greer Incident, in which a U.S. destroyer tangled with a German U-boat, served to bring the conflict into sharp focus.


The Fireside Chat delivered by President Roosevelt on September 11, 1941 made clear that the United States was already virtually at war with Germany:

“Upon our naval and air patrol -- now operating in large number over a vast expanse of the Atlantic Ocean -- falls the duty of maintaining the American policy of freedom of the seas -- now. That means, very simply, very clearly, that our patrolling vessels and planes will protect all merchant ships -- not only American ships but ships of any flag -- engaged in commerce in our defensive waters. They will protect them from submarines; they will protect them from surface raiders.


It is no act of war on our part when we decide to protect the seas that are vital to American defense. The aggression is not ours. Ours is solely defense.

But let this warning be clear. From now on, if German or Italian vessels of war enter the waters, the protection of which is necessary for American defense, they do so at their own peril.”

This declaration did not simply apply to U.S. territorial waters. The United States would escort convoys filled with military equipment to Europe with surface ships and anti-submarine craft, firing at will against any German submarines, ships or planes that they encountered.

Moreover, even U.S. ground forces had begun to participate in the war. In early July 1941, the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps, with Navy support, began deploying to Iceland. The Americans relieved British and Canadian troops who had invaded the island a year earlier.

Why?

In the long run, Hitler (and the rest of the German government) believed that confrontation with the United States was virtually inevitable. The U.S. had intervened in 1917 on behalf of Russia, France, and the United Kingdom; it was almost certain to do so again. U.S. behavior in 1941 reaffirmed this belief. Starting the war on German terms, before the U.S. was prepared to effectively defend itself, was the consensus position within the German political and military elite.

And so Germany declared war on the United States not out of a fit of pique, but rather because it believed that the United States was already effectively a belligerent, and that wider operations against the U.S. would help win the war. In particular, the Axis declaration of war enabled an operation that the Germans believed was key to driving Britain out of the conflict; a concerted submarine attack against U.S. commercial shipping. Although the Kriegsmarine had targeted U.S. vessels in the months and years before Pearl Harbor, it radically stepped up operations in the first months of 1942, launching a major effort just off the U.S. Atlantic seaboard.

The German tactics were devastatingly effective against a U.S. military that lacked good tactics, equipment, and procedures for fighting the U-boats. For their part, British military and political authorities worried that the German offensive might work, destroying enough shipping to cut Britain’s lifeline to North America. The Royal Navy and Royal Air Force quickly dispatched advisors to the United States in an effort to staunch the bleeding, but 1942 nevertheless proved the most devastating year of the war for shipping losses. Overall, Operation Drumbeat proved far more successful for the Axis than the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

But What If…

If, despite all this, Germany and Italy had somehow managed to avoid an open declaration of war against the United States, conflict would have continued in the North Atlantic. The U.S. would have continued to supply Britain and the Soviet Union with war material, potentially with somewhat more secure lines of supply, especially if the Germans continued to avoid attacks along the Atlantic seaboard.

In the real war, U.S. air, naval, and ground forces made their first decisive contribution in the Mediterranean. Plenty of analysts, now and then, have questioned the strategic logic of the Mediterranean campaign, but in the long run it helped beat U.S. ground and air forces into shape. If the U.S. had maintained formal neutrality, Operation Torch (the invasion of North Africa) might never have happened, and progress in the Med would have come much more slowly.

U.S. participation in the Combined Bomber Offensive (CBO), designed to destroy German industry and morale and drive the Third Reich from the war, might also have developed more slowly. Given the limited impact and immense cost of the CBO in its early stages, however, it’s unclear how much of a net impact on the tides of war that this would have made.

A reduced U.S. combat commitment in the Atlantic could have led to a greater effort in the Pacific, although it’s difficult to see what impact that would have made in the first year of the war. Over time, the U.S. built up an enormous advantage over the Japanese; this would have happened even more quickly with a smaller commitment to Europe. Still, the overwhelming superiority that the U.S. exhibited in 1944 depended on technology, training, and the availability of ships that remained on the slipways in 1942. Schemes to step up the fight in China or in Southeast Asia suffered from immeasurable logistical problems, which the U.S. could not solve until 1944 in any case.

The Final Salvo

Both Hitler and Roosevelt believed that war was inevitable, and they were both probably right. Restraining the war machine in December of 1941 might have bought some additional time for Germany in the Med and (possibly) in the skies, but would have forced the Kriegsmarine to forego an offensive that it believed could win the war. And in the end, the Americans likely would have joined the conflict anyway, perhaps with less experience, but with greater overall preparation to make a decisive commitment.

Robert Farley , a frequent contributor to TNI, is author of The Battleship Book . He serves as a Senior Lecturer at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce at the University of Kentucky. His work includes military doctrine, national security, and maritime affairs. He blogs at Lawyers, Guns and Money and Information Dissemination and The Diplomat .




@Nilgiri @Psychic @LeGenD @Metanoia @OsmanAli98
USA was asked to participate in war. It was not Hitlers choice, nor it was USAs.
This had to happen like that..einfach.
 
Last edited:
.
When Indians wanted out the British could not suppress Indians with such a small force

"Why should Russia worry about US troops near our own borders?"
Replace US with Russia. Replace Russia with Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine. You will get the same feeling
Indians wanted British out since the beginnig of occupation. But Britain was too strong and Indians - too devided.
All thosse countries bordering with Russia. USA is not. I suppose if some states will separate from USA the rest USA will not so glad to see Russian troops in former USA states on the borders of USA.
 
.
Indians wanted British out since the beginnig of occupation. But Britain was too strong and Indians - too devided.
All thosse countries bordering with Russia. USA is not. I suppose if some states will separate from USA the rest USA will not so glad to see Russian troops in former USA states on the borders of USA.

Indians wanted the British out. But they never could agree who replaced the British

60,000 US troops is not an occupation force. it is a tripwire force. we all knows what that means
 
.
Back
Top Bottom