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What if Hitler Never Declared War on America?

Hitler was desperate to have unlimited targeting of US convey from Atlantic to Great Britain. He is no fool, just under estimate US involvement. If Hitler dont declared war on US. US convey can easily resupply British Africa forces with large number of Sherman tanks and P-40 curtis fighter plane and trucks since Germany cannot target US convoy.

Yep this is correct. I didn't say it was a wrong decision, he had very valid reasons to do so (for and against)...and it tipped in the "for" argument overall obviously given at that point the Axis were at their prime power.
 
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I can understand when people admire brutal but great conquerors, such as Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great (even after his empire did not survive his death). But admire Hitler? He is a loser who lost the war and turned Germany into an occupied banana republic for 100 years. This is trash.

True, had he won the history would be different and demons would be someone else.
But alas, it is what it is.
 
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I can understand when people admire brutal but great conquerors, such as Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great (even after his empire did not survive his death). But admire Hitler? He is a loser who lost the war and turned Germany into an occupied banana republic for 100 years. This is trash.

what did Genghiz Khan achieve ? The Mongols are backward people, irrelevant nation in grand scheme of things

Germany has achieved by economic strength what they could not achieve through military conquest. They lost some lands - East Prussia, Silesia and Pommarenia. But Bismarck is smiling in his grave
 
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what did Genghiz Khan achieve ? The Mongols are backward people, irrelevant nation in grand scheme of things

Germany has achieved by economic strength what they could not achieve through military conquest. They lost some lands - East Prussia, Silesia and Pommarenia. But Bismarck is smiling in his grave
Genghiz Khan created one of the greatest (or the greatest) Empire in human history.
Germany lost so many territories (the main goal of Hitler - new lands for Lebensraum) - it is in the borders of 10 ct. now. Severals generations of Germans have grown up under occupation - they even do not remember how it is to be independent nation. Total loser.
Bismarck is crying non-stop in his grave.
 
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Genghiz Khan created one of the greatest (or the greatest) Empire in human history.
Germany lost so many territories (the main goal of Hitler - new lands for Lebensraum) - it is in the borders of 10 ct. now. Severals generations of Germans have grown up under occupation - they even do not remember how it is to be independent nation. Total loser.
Bismarck is crying non-stop in his grave.

empires rise and fall. with nukes the boundaries are a little frozen compared to before. The Mongols are completely irrelevant.

an average german has more political and economic freedom than an average russian citizen. everyone is begging to join the EU - Ukranians, Syrian refugees.

what is the point of all the power Russia has ? a lot of poorer russian women are whores all over the world.
 
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But admire Hitler?
Sure, why not?

You admire Stalin who was a bank robber and murdered millions of his own people.

Why can't others admire Hitler who served his country (WWI) and was a man of integrity, even if he made some mistakes (he was human, afterall).

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He is a loser who lost the war
Lol, so then what does that say about your Soviet Union that lost the cold war without even firing a single bullet? Soviet built thousands of useless tanks, airplanes, ships & missiles for nothing:rofl:

At least Germans and their allies went down heroically fighting. They were Titans.
turned Germany into an occupied banana republic for 100 years
You mean Soviet Union and America turned Germany into an occupied banana republic for 100 years.
This is trash.
Look, I know you have a personal bias against Hitler after he mauled 25 million of your people because your Stalin wanted to go to bed with Nazis for his own personal gains.

But that doesn't mean others who had no dog in the fight between you and Nazis should hate Hitler.

Because I'm sure you don't shed a tear for the millions murdered by your ally Churchill in India, nor do you shed a tear for the 2 million Afghan Muslims your people killed in Afghanistan.

Similarly, I don't give two hoots if even the worst allegation against Hitler were true, that he would have enslaved every single slav and turned Russia into a colony, because its not my people.

No it is not. It is capitalism with high social standards. And in morality it has nothing commom with former socialism of USSR and Eastern Europe.
No, it is true socialism because it is revolutionary and destroys all traditional morality social structures.

USSR from Stalin onwards was a deviant Socialism/Communism because it reinstituted "bourgeoisie" morality and nationalism.

True Communist does not believe in religious morality, nationalism or conservatism.


@Nilgiri @Psychic @Metanoia @LeGenD
 
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Hitler's one biggest mistake was to declare war on Red Army if he would have avoided that he could have even taken over USA.
 
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Ukranians, Syrian refugees.
People also want to live in the tropical islands where primitive tribes are living. So what? It does not cancel the fact that Germany is an occupied country with limited sovereignty - like banana republic.
By the way - until the very last years Russia was the most desired direction for migrants in Europe. And there are definitely more Ukrainians working in Russia, than in Germany. Even in Poland there are more migrants from Ukraine than in Germany.
Russian girls are beauty ones. No one will pay for sex with fat ugly American girl. Even fat ugly Americans prefer Russian girls.
 
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People also want to live in the tropical islands where primitive tribes are living. So what? It does not cancel the fact that Germany is an occupied country with limited sovereignty - like banana republic.
By the way - until the very last years Russia was the most desired direction for migrants in Europe. And there are definitely more Ukrainians working in Russia, than in Germany. Even in Poland there are more migrants from Ukraine than in Germany.
Russian girls are beauty ones. No one will pay for sex with fat ugly American girl. Even fat ugly Americans prefer Russian girls.

people migrate to live in those tropical islands as retirees. nobody works there
Germany is no banana republic - they could build nukes tomorrow. there is nothing anyone can do about it

the only ones queuing to Russia are folks who cannot migrate to the EU

As far as fat females go you can see then in all countries
Russia's obesity rate is close to America's

most females don't like to be whores if they can avoid it
 
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Hitler's one biggest mistake was to declare war on Red Army if he would have avoided that he could have even taken over USA.
No, Germany could not take over USA.

Ask the Japanese; they had a much stronger navy than German, and pulled off Pearl Harbor. And what happened afterwards?

Red Army is overrated.
 
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No, Germany could not take over USA.

Ask the Japanese; they had a much stronger navy than German, and pulled off Pearl Harbor. And what happened afterwards?

Red Army is overrated.

In world war 2 USA was nothing where as Germany was super power and Soviet was china of that era a developing military with lost of comrades. UK was the only surviving nation in Europe who only contributed in breaking enigma which is a hoax. I think uboats were enough for any Atlantic navy.
 
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In world war 2 USA was nothing where as Germany was super power and Soviet was china of that era a developing military with lost of comrades. UK was the only surviving nation in Europe who only contributed in breaking enigma which is a hoax. I think uboats were enough for any Atlantic navy.
Bro, I am not sure what kind of revisionist history you are reading but I am well-versed in WW2 era stuff.

Red Army fought as well as it could but it was being pushed back by advancing Wehrmacht columns until US solved Red Army's logistics problems (Lend Lease Program). US also made it impractical for the Wehrmacht to replenish their forces in the Eastern front since 1943, by joining hands with the British, and attacking and routing German positions across Africa (including legendary German commander Erwin Rommel), and then thrust into Italy in 1943. Next big thrust came via Normandy in 1944, and it was game over for the Wehrmacht afterwards. Pay proper attention and you will notice that the Wehrmacht began to suffer setbacks in the Eastern front since 1943, and this is not mere coincidence. American + British bombers were also subjecting German mainland to strategic bombing runs since 1943, and American + British combat aircraft were thining German Air Force in the process. German Air Force diminished by 1944.

Hitler himself admitted that US was the single biggest threat to the Third Reich, because US was creating problems for German forces almost everywhere.

Above all, Enigma decoding wasn't a hoax. It was a breakthrough for Allied forces, in understanding German communication techniques, and this changed the course of WW2 in their favor.

@Desert Fox
 
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Hitler's one biggest mistake was to declare war on Red Army if he would have avoided that he could have even taken over USA.

LOL....nope. US is a whole different beast to continental europe.

Hitler would have had really tough time taking over UK even (even if he acted smart instead of emotional and let Dunkirk come to its appropriate conclusion instead of handing them Brits a real free lifeline)....given the naval factor in play there (there is reason why U-boats were put on much more juicy role of interdicting ocean supply routes rather than confronting Royal navy head to head like blitz was trying to do with RAF aerially)

Forget a whole ocean in between and continent size (with massive industry and 2nd amendment)....it would need tons of other things to happen over much much longer time period first.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the US = easy if eastern front never started.

The real reason there was a failure in Eastern front is what @Desert Fox said....lot of mixed competing objectives between OKW (esp Halder) and Hitler. Hitler original gut feeling to go for the oil and wheat in one single thrust (and deny the soviets of that), was in hindsight probably the best strategy. But it was not followed (and instead conflated with drive to Moscow and helping the Finns out up north...and nothing was really a "primary objective"....but just lot of secondary ones which reduced velocity of the (broad) front, played to USSR strengths long term and created massive logistics nightmare no matter how good your army is).

@AUSTERLITZ
 
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In world war 2 USA was nothing where as Germany was super power and Soviet was china of that era a developing military with lost of comrades. UK was the only surviving nation in Europe who only contributed in breaking enigma which is a hoax. I think uboats were enough for any Atlantic navy.
Bro, I am not sure what kind of revisionist history you are reading but I am well-versed in WW2 era stuff.

Red Army fought as well as it could but it was being pushed back by advancing Wehrmacht columns until US solved Red Army's logistics problems (Lend Lease Program). US also made it impractical for the Wehrmacht to replenish their forces in the Eastern front since 1943, by joining hands with the British, and attacking and routing German positions across Africa (including legendary German commander Erwin Rommel), and then thrust into Italy in 1943. Next big thrust came via Normandy in 1944, and it was game over for the Wehrmacht afterwards. Pay proper attention and you will notice that the Wehrmacht began to suffer setbacks in the Eastern front since 1943, and this is not mere coincidence. American + British bombers were also subjecting German mainland to strategic bombing runs since 1943, and American + British combat aircraft were thining German Air Force in the process. German Air Force diminished by 1944.

Hitler himself admitted that US was the single biggest threat to the Third Reich, because US was creating problems for German forces almost everywhere.

Above all, Enigma decoding wasn't a hoax. It was a breakthrough for Allied forces, in understanding German communication techniques, and this changed the course of WW2 in their favor.

@Desert Fox
You both made valid points, although I would disagree that Germany was a superpower.

Germany was not a superpower because it lacked two key ingredients necessary to become one: 1) raw materials and resources (oil, rubber, timber, various metals like iron, copper, nickel, etc.) 2) as well as strategic depth (like the Soviet Union) or the protection of natural barriers (like USA & Britain's oceanic barriers).

Germany certainly was an aspiring superpower, and it certainly had one major advantage over all of its adversaries and that was technological advancement and know-how. Germans in general are by their nature a very civilized and productive people. Germany was facing a brain drain during the 19th and early 20th centuries when millions of Germans had immigrated to America thus taking their productivity with them and "melting" into the American "melting pot" (the entire American midwest is populated by descendants of German origin). The famous Brooklyn Bridge (first of its kind) was designed by a German engineer. The famous American general who commanded coalition forces during Operation Desert Storm was General Herbert Norman Schwarzkopf.

This is why Hitler did indeed consider America the greater and long term threat whereas the Soviet Union was the immediate threat, and as Hitler called it "the right arm of the international Jewish plutocracy".

This is also why Hitler sought lebensraum in Russia, because only a continental power could challenge the looming threat of American hegemony.

Hitler explains his foreign policy agenda in his second book, which is a very interesting read on his views about relations between nations, and he certainly was a Machiavellian and a strict believer of real politics, though in practice he did make some ideological decisions during WW2 that certainly contributed to his defeat, though this shows more of his integrity.

But then again, men are ideological beings.

In world war 2 USA was nothing where as Germany was super power
Yes, technologically Germans were ahead, but America was an industrial behemoth with the entire North and South American continent at its disposal.
Hitler himself admitted that US was the single biggest threat to the Third Reich, because US was creating problems for German forces almost everywhere.

Yes this is true. USA: long-term threat, Soviet Union: immediate threat

Red Army is overrated.
Red army is indeed overrated, especially in the movies.

For the Soviets it was all about quantity. But this isn't to say there wasn't quality either.

Soviets built the first amphibious tanks. They built the first high altitude bomber that had the capacity to sustain oxygen supplies to the crewmen at altitudes where oxygen did not exist and where enemy interceptors could not reach. They built the first true heavy tank (KV series) that was operational as early as 1939 just in time for WW2 (coincidence? I think not. And then people say Stalin was "unprepared" for war, LOL).

Soviet Union was basically one large military industrial complex where everything was aimed towards military production and R&D.

Imagine living in a society where in the name of collectivization food is distributed in rations and the people are worked to fulfill extreme quotas in the name of socialism and a distant utopian dream, feeding a massive war machine being prepared to carry the "world revolution" against the "capitalist nations" (which for a communist is any society that is not communist).

Communism interprets all of history through materialist lens, which is why it views humans as no different from animals, or "human material" there too be expended. Communism denies that a soul exists. Basically humans are animals who happen to be creative with their environment, therefore more evolved, but still animals. In other words, Communism only recognizes a humans base urges (sleep, sex, eat, defecate, etc.) and not the creative, spiritual and personal factor known as the soul, or the spirit.

The real reason there was a failure in Eastern front is what @Desert Fox said....lot of mixed competing objectives between OKW (esp Halder) and Hitler. Hitler original gut feeling to go for the oil and wheat in one single thrust (and deny the soviets of that), was in hindsight probably the best strategy. But it was not followed (and instead conflated with drive to Moscow and helping the Finns out up north...and nothing was really a "primary objective"....but just lot of secondary ones which reduced velocity of the (broad) front, played to USSR strengths long term and created massive logistics nightmare no matter how good your army is).
Well said. And I would also add to this that Germany had to carry the weight of her European allies who were for the most part industrially underdeveloped.

Whereas the Western allies and Soviet Union were all industrially primed with almost unlimited manpower.

Honestly, looking at this, one can only consider the Germans titans, regardless of their defeat.
 
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Honestly, looking at this, one can only consider the Germans titans, regardless of their defeat.

Yep I share same sentiment for Confederates in the civil war as you know already. They had so much stacked against them but really gave a right ole thrashing given the circumstances.
 
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