What does China want?

[Beidou2020]

LOL, an American foreigner promoting regionalism, how typical.

Nationalism is about unity, regionalism is about dividing people. Which is why the CPC is so opposed to regionalism.

I ALWAYS vote for the pro-Beijing camp in all the HK elections, which dominates the HK political sphere and gives the Beijing government enormous influence here. I also go on every public march that I can in favor of the pro-Beijing camp.

It is the votes of me and my family that allow Beijing to have unprecedented influence in the HK political system through the dominance of the pro-Beijing camp.

Now, what do American foreigners do apart from trying to divide Chinese people and promote regionalism?

Did you sign the Anti-Occupy Central petition?
So you're telling me you did nothing to counter the the anti-CPC scum?

China needs as many pro-CPC foreigners as they can get. People like me are important than pro-CPC Chinese as most Chinese are pro-CPC anyway.

 

[sweetgrape]

The author point is that in fact CCP gave zero F to Chinese massacred by Japan because those were not their people, those were enemies or at the very least potential enemies..

Oh, Chinese also give F to the autho's point!

My point is that you are now crying for the enemies of your grandfathers. Or worse using the death of your enemies to gain advantages. You should respect them, but should never avenge the death.

Enemy? they are not Chinese? so you opinion is we just using our death of Chinese who are enemy of CCP? what a ridiculous opinion, hehe, you really understand what do Mao's word real to explain?(And show the sourse that Mao said these word)

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Did you sign the Anti-Occupy Central petition?
So you're telling me you did nothing to counter the the anti-CPC scum?

China needs as many pro-CPC foreigners as they can get. People like me are important than pro-CPC Chinese as most Chinese are pro-CPC anyway.

You are not pro-CPC at all, you are spreading regionalism which is exactly what the CPC is trying to get rid of.

Whenever Xi Jinping makes a decision, like on the BRICS bank, it is me who is supporting them. It is you who is always opposing the CPC policy, and pretending that you somehow know "better" than some of the most experienced national leaders on the planet.

Now I vote for the pro-Beijing camp in every election, and I attend every pro-Beijing march that I can.

Now why don't you try coming to China, and marching against CPC policies like the BRICS bank? As a foreigner you can't even do that, you can't vote in local elections and you can't even march. You'll be lucky if you're even allowed to use your return ticket, if you pull a stunt like that.

 

[xunzi]

This article too long to read. Let me guess, another butthurt article that want to war with us but doesn't have the gut to do so. LOL

 

[xesy]

This article too long to read. Let me guess, another butthurt article that want to war with us but doesn't have the gut to do so. LOL

Ok, here is a summary:

China is undeniable rising power, and seeking total control of its operating ground, i.e East Asia. But China is also an irresponsible power, abuses its power to gain advantages in competition, not to maintain the current world order.

CCP stops using communism as the core theory and switches to nationalism. Their mission is no longer building a ideal society, but to restore the former glory of China Empire. By manipulating Chinese nationalism, they justify their right to rule the nation. The author points out that doing that is dangerous because nationalism is a raging volcano that one it goes off, the world will burn.

The rest are jokes, useless information. I recommend looking at the note for higher quality documents, in English of course.

Source: What does China want? | Page 6
My summary again.

 

[Beidou2020]

You are not pro-CPC at all, you are spreading regionalism which is exactly what the CPC is trying to get rid of.

Whenever Xi Jinping makes a decision, like on the BRICS bank, it is me who is supporting them. It is you who is always opposing the CPC policy, and pretending that you somehow know "better" than some of the most experienced national leaders on the planet.

Now I vote for the pro-Beijing camp in every election, and I attend every pro-Beijing march that I can.

Now why don't you try coming to China, and marching against CPC policies like the BRICS bank? As a foreigner you can't even do that, you can't vote in local elections and you can't even march. You'll be lucky if you're even allowed to use your return ticket, if you pull a stunt like that.

I am happy at least you vote pro-CPC camp. But we need you to do counter protests against the anti-CPC movement. We need you to counter the Falun Gong movement in Hong Kong. Did you sign the Anti-Occupy Central petition?

If I was president, Hong Kong and Macau would be Chinese provinces, not SAR. I would tear up those agreements with the British and Portuguese and treat HK and Macau as just another Chinese province.

If the BRICS bank can counter the WB and IMF, then I fully support it. But I have my doubts with India being in it that they will be a Western puppet inside BRICS bank. Remove India and I think BRICS concept is great.

I have my doubts of your pro-CPC views due to your support of the anti-China leader Modi. No true Chinese patriot goes around supporting its rival nations.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I am happy at least you vote pro-CPC camp. But we need you to do counter protests against the anti-CPC movement. We need you to counter the Falun Gong movement in Hong Kong. Did you sign the Anti-Occupy Central petition?

Of course, just like our Chief Executive CY Leung did.

I am actually doing something on the ground, voting for the pro-Beijing camp (which allows them to completely dominate the HK government at all levels), and attending every pro-Beijing march that I can.

You, as an American foreigner can do neither.

If I was president, Hong Kong and Macau would be Chinese provinces, not SAR. I would tear up those agreements with the British and Portuguese and treat HK and Macau as just another Chinese province.

You're an American foreigner, who still doesn't understand that China is not an immigration nation.

You claim to be a "white American", have you seen any white Americans in the Politburo? You must be joking, all our leaders are Chinese. Even white Americans who are fluent in speaking Chinese (unlike you) find it almost impossible to get citizenship, that's just not how China works.

Those black people in Guangzhou and those white people in Shenzhen, none of them are Chinese citizens. They are only there on temporary visas. They are not Chinese citizens.

I do agree on the SAR bit though, I would prefer to have the Mainland system here in Hong Kong. As I have stated many times before.

 

[Beidou2020]

Of course, just like our Chief Executive CY Leung did.

I am actually doing something on the ground, voting for the pro-Beijing camp (which allows them to completely dominate the HK government at all levels), and attending every pro-Beijing march that I can.

You, as an American foreigner can do neither.



You're an American foreigner, who still doesn't understand that China is not an immigration nation.

You claim to be a "white American", have you seen any white Americans in the Politburo? You must be joking, all our leaders are Chinese. Even white Americans who are fluent in speaking Chinese (unlike you) find it almost impossible to get citizenship, that's just not how China works.

I do agree on the SAR bit though, I would prefer to have the Mainland system here in Hong Kong.

I'm glad to hear you contributing to the pro-CPC camp. Lets hope it continues and not jump to the anti-CPC camp.

Yes I don't want foreigners to have positions in the CPC. Han Chinese must rule China. Plain and simple.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Yes I don't want foreigners to have positions in the CPC. Han Chinese must rule China. Plain and simple.

It's not just Han Chinese, don't you know that there are 56 ethnic groups that make up "Chinese people"?

Or do you also disagree with the CPC's policy of ethnic equality?

Anyway, I am a Han Chinese. Of Hakka descent.

You are a white American (or so you claim). That's not included in the 56 ethnic groups, your chances of getting Chinese citizenship are just about zero.

So unfortunately you won't get a chance to vote against CPC policies in local elections (I will always vote for the pro-Beijing camp no matter what, they must keep dominating the system) or march against their policies like the BRICS bank.

But I will always be voting in favor of the CPC's policies, and marching to support them. Because I trust that they have China's best interests at heart, and moreover I understand and support the logic behind their decisions.

They have lifted 800 million Chinese people out of poverty, they have done more for my Chinese brothers and sisters than anyone else on Earth.

 

[xunzi]

Ok, here is a summary:

China is undeniable rising power, and seeking total control of its operating ground, i.e East Asia. But China is also an irresponsible power, abuses its power to gain advantages in competition, not to maintain the current world order.

CCP stops using communism as the core theory and switches to nationalism. Their mission is no longer building a ideal society, but to restore the former glory of China Empire. By manipulating Chinese nationalism, they justify their right to rule the nation. The author points out that doing that is dangerous because nationalism is a raging volcano that one it goes off, the world will burn.

The rest are jokes, useless information. I recommend looking at the note for higher quality documents, in English of course.

Source: What does China want? | Page 6
My summary again.

Thank you, my friend. Please allow me to respond to you.

You are right that we seek total control over our turf. We want the US's Monroe Doctrine but we also know in order to achieve that doctrine, we must grow to be an invincible power. Does that answer your concern why we build our military up? Irresponsible power is relative. Was the US a responsible power in the 19th and 20th century during their rise? They bulldog their ways toward supremacy in Latin America. Whether we are responsible or not, is not important. We feel we are very responsible considering the provocative caused by some of the troublemakers. Currently there are too many puppets in Asia who feel inferior to the West (namely the US) that they don't seek to challenge it. They don't accept our lead. We understand that. The US is military superior and they fear US retaliation. So we have to test it. Will there be challenge to the goal? Of course! We expect challenge. We embrace it, we love it!

Ideal society based on harmony is the same as restoring the former glory. It is mutually exclusive, my friend. We have an opportunity. Why shouldn't we pursue it? Nationalism is a cute word that you used because you don't understand us. Japan used nationalism to re-militarize again. You, Vietnam, used nationalism to keep away from color revolution. Likewise, the CCP will use nationalism to motivate Chinese people to achieve the "Chinese Dream". I suppose you know that "Chinese Dream" right?

 

[tranquilium]

Given the number of years that would take, perhaps you or @Raphael can provide a rebuttal, or at least point us in the direction of resources that would provide a more complete picture (articles, books, etc.) from the Chinese perspective. I understand that Chinese members here vigorously disagree with the article, but I don't understand why. @Chinese-Dragon 's post in this thread about economic dominance followed by military dominance seems to bolster the author's assertions; and the "century of humiliation" is certainly a recurring theme in the China forum. Where do you think the author has gone wrong?

Short of such a discussion, it appears we must resign ourselves to a permanent misunderstanding, and thus, inevitable conflict.

While your recommendation is good, if entire culture can be understood with a few paragraph or even just a few books, we would all be culture experts. It only take me a few days to read a few million words and the only cultures I am familiar with are the ones I have personal experience with.

I remember discussing with you in another post and at the end we have to agree to disagree and admit there is a barrier that we can't cross. Considering that you are one of the more reasonable ones on this forum and you can see why my best recommendation is actually spending some time in China.

I am not too worried about misunderstanding though. While smaller nations are often cursed to have their fates decided by powerful outsiders, large nations are at least fortunate enough that their success and failure is mainly determined by their own effort. As long as we understand our own and that is often enough.

 

[Beidou2020]

It's not just Han Chinese, don't you know that there are 56 ethnic groups that make up "Chinese people"?

Or do you also disagree with the CPC's policy of ethnic equality?

Anyway, I am a Han Chinese. Of Hakka descent.

You are a white American (or so you claim). That's not included in the 56 ethnic groups, your chances of getting Chinese citizenship are just about zero.

So unfortunately you won't get a chance to vote against CPC policies in local elections (I will always vote for the pro-Beijing camp no matter what, they must keep dominating the system) or march against their policies like the BRICS bank.

But I will always be voting in favor of the CPC's policies, and marching to support them. Because I trust that they have China's best interests at heart, and moreover I understand and support the logic behind their decisions.

They have lifted 800 million Chinese people out of poverty, they have done more for my Chinese brothers and sisters than anyone else on Earth.

Hakka can be untrustworthy from what I've heard. Not sure it's true but I guess from your Modi love, I can understand that view point.

Han Chinese must rule China, I don't want a Tibetan ruling CPC.

True Chinese patriots don't go around giving love to Modi. That's just unacceptable. I hope you understand that. So I think if you truly want to be patriotic, you must stop supporting India and Japan.

This is why the CPC will trust me more than a Modi-loving Hong Kong person.

Seriously? Supporting Modi? Wishing our rivals get stronger? what is wrong with you man?
Cut it out.
If you are a true Chinese patriot, behave like one.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Hakka can be untrustworthy from what I've heard. Not sure it's true but I guess from your Modi love, I can understand that view point.

Han Chinese must rule China, I don't want a Tibetan ruling CPC.

True Chinese patriots don't go around giving love to Modi. That's just unacceptable. I hope you understand that. So I think if you truly want to be patriotic, you must stop supporting India and Japan.

This is why the CPC will trust me more than a Modi-loving Hong Kong person.

Seriously? Supporting Modi? Wishing our rivals get stronger? what is wrong with you man?
Cut it out.
If you are a true Chinese patriot, behave like one.

Like I already said, I supported Modi for the same reason Aeronaut supported Modi.

Because with Modi in power, the 200 million Indian Muslims would make sure that India never becomes a challenger to us in the future, due to internal instability, unrest and possibly even fragmentation. Everyone knows how much Muslims hate Modi, they won't be able to help themselves.

Like I said, I do not care what he does to Indian citizens. The question is what he will do for India's stability, and overall national strength. Both of which are sure to be negative.

True, he may badly hurt some South Asians (your cousins) but I'm not going to shed fake tears over something I do not care about.

And apparently Xi Jinping doesn't care either, he was happy to invite Modi into the BRICS bank, the AIDB, the SCO and even the Silk Road project. What matters is Chinese interests, not whatever bloodshed Modi has in plan for South Asians (which will either be big or enormous). They are not Chinese citizens, they are not our responsibility.

They voted for him themselves, whatever he does to them, will be on their own head.

 

[Beidou2020]

Like I already said, I supported Modi for the same reason Aeronaut supported Modi.

Because with Modi in power, the 200 million Indian Muslims would make sure that India never becomes a challenger to us in the future, due to internal instability, unrest and possibly even fragmentation.

Like I said, I do not care what he does to Indian citizens. The question is what he will do for India's stability, and overall national strength. Both of which are sure to be negative.

True, he may badly hurt some South Asians (your cousins) but I'm not going to shed fake tears over something I do not care about.

And apparently Xi Jinping doesn't care either, he was happy to invite Modi into the BRICS bank, the AIDB, the SCO and even the Silk Road project. What matters is Chinese interests, not whatever bloodshed Modi has in plan for South Asians (which will either be big or enormous).

Modi as leader = India becomes stronger
=>
Stronger India = greater challenge for China.

Right wing leaders of rival nations are no friends of China.
Modi, Abe, etc are right wing and highly anti-China.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Modi as leader = India becomes stronger
=>
Stronger India = greater challenge for China.

Right wing leaders of rival nations are no friends of China.
Modi, Abe, etc are right wing and highly anti-China.

Wrong.

India has 200 million Muslims, the 2nd most out of any country in the world.

And Muslims HATE Modi. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.

There is zero chance that those 200 million Muslims will follow Modi's idea of India. Zero.

India as a country is made up of a vast number of different ethnic and religious groups. Unity in diversity is the only reason they were able to stay united, now that a Hindu Extremist is in power, all of that will be shattered. It might even result in Partition 2.0. Indian Muslim leaders are already declaring that they do not recognize his authority, and communal riots are increasing exponentially all over India.

If he succeeds in breaking India, then that is one potential competitor gone. Whatever bloodshed he inevitably visits on South Asians is their own business, they are the ones who voted him in.