What can Pakistan learn from Bangladesh?

[Avicenna]

Just edited my previous post with extra information - just says it all about the trajectories of the two economies.
I sincerely hope that Pakistan does better if only for BD geopolitical interests in S Asia.

Rather than the title of this thread, the real question should be....What can Bangladesh learn from others to get better.

There's no shame in learning from others.

The arrogance and condescension on this thread is absurd.

 

[UKBengali]

Rather than the title of this thread, the real question should be....What can Bangladesh learn from others to get better.

Truth be told, BD is doing nearly as well as it can under the current circumstances.
It had a messed up 2 party system for two decades before the current government came into power.
Yes there is lack of democracy but this is not necessarily a bad thing as no 3rd world country that has been a true democracy has ever developed since WW2.
The one area of policy I do not agree with BD government is their too friendly attitude to India. Yes by all means develop a flourishing trade relationship with them but be tougher when it comes to transit etc. Also BD needs to militarize quicker.
If you look at 4.5 US billion dollar FDI last fiscal and no less than Damen planning to build their first shipyard in S Asia in BD, then what else do you need what others think of BD economy? BD companies in areas like IT, Pharma and electronics are flourishing and in IT and electronics are arguably better than India now.
BD needs to keep going for another 15-20 years and it will then be a "midde-income" economy.
Neither India even less Pakistan have such rosy economic prospects

 

[Avicenna]

Truth be told, BD is doing nearly as well as it can under the current circumstances.
It had a messed up 2 party system for two decades before the current government came into power.
Yes there is lack of democracy but this is not necessarily a bad thing as no 3rd world country that has been a true democracy has ever developed since WW2.
The one area of policy I do not agree with BD government is their too friendly attitude to India. Yes by all means develop a flourishing trade relationship with them but be tougher when it comes to transit etc. Also BD needs to militarize quicker.
If you look at 4.5 US billion dollar FDI last fiscal and no less than Damen planning to build their first shipyard in S Asia in BD, then what else do you need what others think of BD economy? BD companies in areas like IT, Pharma and electronics and flourishing and in IT and electronics are arguably better than India now.
BD needs to keep going for another 15-20 years and it will then be a "midde-income" economy.
Neither India even less Pakistan have such rosy economic prospects

Yup.

Just keep chugging along.

Let the results speak for themselves.

I agree with your post.

I don't like the overall acquiescence to Indian sensitivities.

But otherwise, BD is doing fairly well.

 

[bd_4_ever]

Pakistanis are involved in coming up with so many excuses to explain why they are 3rd world after 72 years of independence and still have no stable fast growing economic foundation. They even had access to BD resources during 1947-1971 to boot!
I hope the current government in Pakistan has a different attitude as otherwise Pakistan will not have any chance of moving forward economically.

Food for thought - Pakistan is predicted to slide to world's 50th largest economy by 2034 whereas BD is predicted to rise to 24th.

I'm consistently disappointed by the attitude of some of these guys.

Regardless, I wish the nation well. (As one should as a fellow Muslim)

But goddamn man SMFH reading some of this ish.

As for Bangladesh.....sure it has some problems which is needs to address.

But overall, the BD of 2020 is doing a hell of a lot better than the BD of 1990.

Bangladesh's problems aren't really that significant. Pakistanis can complain about Hasina and what not but she is an extremely smart woman. Her 'iron grip' on Bangladesh is exactly what Bangladesh needs at this point in time.

One has to realize that giving too much freedom/option to the population of a third-world country will create lot of issues. Lack of education, understanding and utilizing the true concept of democracy and exercising ones rights are the main catalysts. These things work in highly-developed or knowledge societies. If you look at Bangladesh's journey thus far and when our people had options (in terms of Hasina/Khaleda/Ershad), did Bangladesh have stability? No. Simply because there was a power-battle and massive political polarity leading to strikes, blockades and what not? Go back and count how much the country lost to each day due to this nonsense.

Fast forward now, when was the last time there was a strike? I can bet none of us remember. Do you like it this way? Hell yes you do.

Bangladeshis can moan and cry on the internet about how there is no freedom of speech and democracy because hey, 'others can say and do whatever they want, so we want to too'. Question to most of the average Bangladeshis should be, if you love the concept of democracy so much, would you rise up against the government and ensure your rights are sustained? I can bet none would, at least not now. Because at the end of the day, as long as you got cloths, 3 meals, a job and medicines, majority wont give's a rat's ar$e. Need examples? Just ask a random rickshaw puller on the street to exchange his rickshaw for the right to vote in the country's next election and see what he says.

Many Bangladeshis might not appreciate this post and I understand that. However, one should be grateful for what we have today. Tomorrow, Hasina wont be there. Things will change and a new leader with a new vision will come to power. It might get better or worse. We dont know. Hasina has her faults but the economic and infrastructural foundation she is building for the country to launch itself, this will remain and pay us off in many many years to come. There is a opportunity cost to everything. You want development and stability, you need to let few things go. As a third world nation, we dont have much options.

 

[UKBengali]

Bangladesh's problems aren't really that significant. Pakistanis can complain about Hasina and what not but she is an extremely smart woman. Her 'iron grip' on Bangladesh is exactly what Bangladesh needs at this point in time.

One has to realize that giving too much freedom/option to the population of a third-world country will create lot of issues. Lack of education, understanding and utilizing the true concept of democracy and exercising ones rights are the main catalysts. These things work in highly-developed or knowledge societies. If you look at Bangladesh's journey thus far and when our people had options (in terms of Hasina/Khaleda/Ershad), did Bangladesh have stability? No. Simply because there was a power-battle and massive political polarity leading to strikes, blockades and what not? Go back and count how much the country lost to each day due to this nonsense.

Fast forward now, when was the last time there was a strike? I can bet none of us remember. Do you like it this way? Hell yes you do.

Bangladeshis can moan and cry on the internet about how there is no freedom of speech and democracy because hey, 'others can say and do whatever they want, so we want to too'. Question to most of the average Bangladeshis should be, if you love the concept of democracy so much, would you rise up against the government and ensure your rights are sustained? I can bet none would, at least not now. Because at the end of the day, as long as you got cloths, 3 meals, a job and medicines, majority wont give's a rat's ar$e. Need examples? Just ask a random rickshaw puller on the street to exchange his rickshaw for the right to vote in the country's next election and see what he says.

Many Bangladeshis might not appreciate this post and I understand that. However, one should be grateful for what we have today. Tomorrow, Hasina wont be there. Things will change and a new leader with a new vision will come to power. It might get better or worse. We dont know. Hasina has her faults but the economic and infrastructural foundation she is building for the country to launch itself, this will remain and pay us off in many many years to come. There is a opportunity cost to everything. You want development and stability, you need to let few things go. As a third world nation, we dont have much options.

Excellent post.

 

[Zayan]

What can Pakistan learn from Bangladesh?

Henry Kissinger, the secretary of state during the Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford administrations, ominously dubbed Bangladesh a basket case, and the moniker stuck, causing disappointment and dismay among Bangladeshis. In the 1970s, the derogatory appellation painted a dire picture of a country struggling with negative growth rates, dismal export potentials, empty coffers, and, to top it all off, the burden of meeting the needs of a population traumatised by a brutal independence movement. The future of Bangladesh, at the time, looked very bleak indeed.

Five decades later, Bangladesh has come out roaring. It has become one of the leading Asian economies and has, for over a decade, grown at a good clip. In fact, since 2011, Bangladesh’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth rate has been consistently over 6 %. In its latest report, the Asian Development Bank paints a promising picture of Bangladesh and puts it on a sure footing for achieving a growth rate of 8% in 2020, the highest in the region.

Due to the constant economic upheaval, the Bangladeshi economy will cast off the status of a least developed economy in less than five years and will join the list of developing economies. Bangladesh’s story of economic success is strewn with lessons on how to exploit resource endowments, not only to achieve economic growth, but also inculcate human development. That is why Bangladesh is higher on the human development index (HDI) than Pakistan.

It is somewhat ironic that it was Mahbubul Haq, a Pakistani economist, that developed the HDI along with Amartya Sen to assess the quality of life and standard of living of people within a country. Sen, a Nobel Laureate, called Haq an “outstanding economist and a visionary social thinker.” Haq believed that the policy outcomes that mattered the most were what a government did for its people so that they could lead a healthy and prosperous life. Taking a people-centric approach to judge the success of governmental policies, the HDI draws attention to three dimensions of people’s lives: education, health, and income.

During the last two decades, Bangladesh has made great strides with regards to improving the lives of its people. To get a sense of where it stands today, we will compare Bangladesh with Pakistan on some of the key indicators of HDI, knowing full well that such a comparison can generate controversy due to the long standing friction between the two countries.

When we look at the ranking of the two countries on the human development scale, Bangladesh is ahead on the 135th position as opposed to Pakistan’s 152nd. The average life expectancy in Bangladesh is also higher at 72.3 years in comparison to Pakistan’s 67.1 years whereas the mortality rate is also significantly lower in Bangladesh at 26.9 versus 61.2 in Pakistan. A child born in Bangladesh can expect to be in school longer than a child born in Pakistan at an average of 11.2 years versus 8.5 years while the mean years of schooling for females in Bangladesh is 5.3 years compared to 3.8 years in Pakistan. What is perhaps most surprising is that, according to the World Bank, Bangladesh now has a higher per capita Gross National Income than Pakistan, $1,750 versus $1,590 to be precise. Overall, Bangladeshis now enjoy a higher standard of living than their Pakistani counterparts.

Among the different developmental policies that Bangladesh implemented to improve the standard of living for its people, the two that stand out are the economic empowerment of women and the focus on infrastructural development. Comparatively, while both Pakistan and Bangladesh essentially exported their unemployment problems by sending people to work in the restrictive environment of the Middle East, Bangladesh also looked for ways to create employment opportunities internally for its labour force. It slowly and steadily expanded the textile sector to create employment opportunities, especially for women, who now form the backbone of the industry.

As a result, female labour now accounts for more than 90%of the workforce in the textile sector which currently employs over four million people. These jobs have not only improved the lives of families, but have also given women discretionary purchasing power and access to financial instruments.

Bangladesh has become a textile powerhouse, exporting apparel products and producing for retailers such as Zara, Gap, Uniqlo, Hugo Boss, H&M and other multinationals. A once fledgling industry has now been transformed into a $30 billion business which has established Bangladesh as the second largest exporter of garments and apparel products in the world after China. The experience and the network of relationships that its executives have developed along with the business prowess they have gained will be instrumental in moving Bangladesh towards the next phase of development which is the production and marketing of high value-added products.

Unfortunately, in the case of Pakistan, the data on human development looks bleak. Its story is one of lost opportunities. Once a beacon of development and modernity in South Asia, Pakistan’s economy has stagnated due to rampant corruption and mismanagement. Successive governments have failed to construct a growth-conducive economic model whereas a feudal mentality has curtailed the entrepreneurial spirit that propelled growth during the early years of Pakistan’s existence in the financial, educational, healthcare, aviation, and transportation sectors. Therefore, sooner rather than later, Pakistan will need to create conducive conditions in order achieve what Mahbub ul Haq valued – a good life for the general populace.

The author is Professor Emeritus of Marketing at Marquette University in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA, and a Fulbright scholar. He has published extensively in business and marketing journals and has taught graduate and undergraduate level courses in North America, Europe, South America, and Asia.

https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/92997/bangladesh-not-a-basket-case-anymore/

I wanna say just one thing besides you guys are going in right direction and your life standards are higher then us but!
As a pakistani , having nukes I and most of pakistanis feel which you guys can't imagine this give us much more comfort then your statistics
Our economic is bad bcz we went for nukes which destroyed our economic
But saray paysay is feeling kay hai(all comfort is of this feeling)

 

[UKBengali]

I wanna say just one thing besides you guys are going in right direction and your life standards are higher then us but!
As a pakistani , having nukes I and most of pakistanis feel which you guys can't imagine this give us much more comfort then your statistics
Our economic is bad bcz we went for nukes which destroyed our economic
But saray paysay is feeling kay hai(all comfort is of this feeling)

True that BD needs to build up it's military - this is happening and will be complete by around 2030.

But blaming nukes is not enough to say why your economy is not doing better. Your high defence spending is compensated by 24 more years of independence(+ 24 years of subsidy from BD during 1947-1971) and also your vastly greater natural resources.

 

[313ghazi]

What can Pakistan learn from Bangladesh?

I think one of the key things Bangladesh did was the microfinancing by Muhammad Yunus. He helped finance women getting the tools/training required to do small jobs. Around the world they have found that working women tend to spend more money on their kids and their household, leading to improved standards of living, nutrition and healthcare of those households.

We have to be careful though. There comes a social cost to this too. If women and men are at work, who's looking after the children? Who's raising your next generation? I think there is a balance to be had.

Ultimately Pakistan should work towards a financial model where the typical requirements of a household can be met by 1 income. We should work towards a work environment where there are 1.5 earners in a home (1 full time, 1 part time, or 2 shared part time). This would allow the additional income to be spent as disposable income, or to be put towards pensions or other investments. We can achieve this through up skilling and training our women folk. We need to create a culture of freelancing and working from home, and employers should be encouraged (maybe through some form of tax breaks) to offer roles in part time hours, ie 9-3, only during term time; so women (or men) with children of school going age can contribute to the economy and still have time for family life after school.

Yes BD is single ethnic but Pakistan had the following advantages:

1. 24 year head start in independence and helped itself to BD resources during 1947-1971 and so that is a double bonus!
2. Vastly more natural resources.

All I see here is Pakistanis making excuse after excuse and not seeing why they have failed economically after 72 years of independence.

It is interesting that during a worldwide economic slowdown, BD per capita is still expected to grow at over 6 % a year over the next 2 years - something that Pakistan only managed for a few years in more than 7 decades.

Maybe, but it doesn't mean some of these "excuses" are not valid. The US sanctions for developing nuclear weapons, the 2 waves of refugees from Afghanistan, the war on terror fought on our own soil (most of the terrorists came from Afghanistan or had support from Afghanistan) and worst of all; post Zia democracy.

Yes we've failed to take opportunities, but it's easier to take these opportunities without huge external influences. Post 911, Bangladesh didn't get forced at gunpoint to become a base for a 20 year war. Of course there are huge opportunities missed which are completely independent of all this; like the low literacy rate, women in the workplace, the electricity shortages of past etc.

 

[UKBengali]

Maybe, but it doesn't mean some of these "excuses" are not valid. The US sanctions for developing nuclear weapons, the 2 waves of refugees from Afghanistan, the war on terror fought on our own soil (most of the terrorists came from Afghanistan or had support from Afghanistan) and worst of all; post Zia democracy.

Yes we've failed to take opportunities, but it's easier to take these opportunities without huge external influences. Post 911, Bangladesh didn't get forced at gunpoint to become a base for a 20 year war. Of course there are huge opportunities missed which are completely independent of all this; like the low literacy rate, women in the workplace, the electricity shortages of past etc.

These are decisions that an independent Pakistan took. The war on terror was a direct consequence of Pakistan's support for the Taliban in the 1990s.

Post Zia-democracy is also a choice that Pakistan as independent nation made.

It is depressing to see Pakistanis making excuses for their economic failure and so there is little hope that they will be prepared to change a failed economic system.

Like I say your need to spend more on defence and geopolitical environment is more than made up by your 24 years head start in independence, 24 year subsidy from BD during 1947-1971 and vastly greater natural resources.

 

[Progressive1]

good for them but we need nothing to learn from bangadesh

Only people from which we need to learn many things are western countries and our iron brother china.

 

[UKBengali]

good for them but we need nothing to learn from bangadesh

Only people from which we need to learn many things are western countries and our iron brother china.

Everyone in BD admires Imran Khan, including Hasina, and he will be more than welcome to come to BD to learn any applicable lessons and implement them in Pakistan.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Its like prescribing vaccines for a cancer patient. Different problems require different solutions.

 

[313ghazi]

These are decisions that an independent Pakistan took. The war on terror was a direct consequence of Pakistan's support for the Taliban in the 1990s.

Post Zia-democracy is also a choice that Pakistan as independent nation made.

It is depressing to see Pakistanis making excuses for their economic failure and so there is little hope that they will be prepared to change a failed economic system.

Like I say your need to spend more on defence and geopolitical environment is more than made up by your 24 years head start in independence, 24 year subsidy from BD during 1947-1971 and vastly greater natural resources.

That's BS and you know it. The support for the Taliban was required to protect us from the civil war in Afghanistan. Our support for them ended the war in their country. The WoT had nothing to do with the Taliban, it had everything to do with OBL who was offered by the Sudanese to the CIA and later by the Taliban post 911 to the Saudi's. The US wanted blood not justice. Next you'll be justifying the invasion of Iraq too.

There is nothing independent about Pakistani democracy. It's the dictatorship of the fuedal elite with a sham election every 4 years. Regardless of who you select, you get the same faces. Perhaps sometimes a PPP supporting brother will be replaced by a PMLN supporting cousin. Musharraf intervened and things improved fiancially, then due to his own greed and massive external pressures, he signed the NRO allowing both these parties back into Pakistan. When both parties are corrupt in a 2 party system - the choice is gone.

Also you keep going on about this 24 year head start, almost as if Bangladesh was led to starve for those 24 years and asset stripped. It was the region that was heavily involved in generating exports, of course wealth generated by one area was going to be used to help develop other areas. It would be like Karachi complaining that taxes paid there should only be spent there - it's a ridiculous notion.

As for military spending, had we chosen to be subservient to India, as Bangladesh has, then yes, we wouldn't have needed to spend so much - but we choice independence ahead of finances.

 

[UKBengali]

Also you keep going on about this 24 year head start, almost as if Bangladesh was led to starve for those 24 years and asset stripped. It was the region that was heavily involved in generating exports, of course wealth generated by one area was going to be used to help develop other areas. It would be like Karachi complaining that taxes paid there should only be spent there - it's a ridiculous notion.

Karachi subsidises the rest of Pakistan as it is richer than them.
Where on the planet you ever heard of a poorer region(BD) subsidising a richer region(Pakistani)?
Doers poorer Wales subsidise richer England?

Anyway keep up with your excuses while BD grows and grows. Unless Pakistan changes, 20 years down the line it will be still a 3rd world country and BD a solid 2nd world economy.

I hope the current Pakistani government is a lot more humble than the Pakistani posters here as otherwise the future for Pakistan is very bleak.


PS - Your larger military is directly the result of having built up a large one during the 24 years you were with BD and also the dispute over Kashmir. BD has no territorial dispute with India and so has chosen to focus on economy. As the economy grows then the military will grow with it.

 

[313ghazi]

Karachi subsidises the rest of Pakistan as it is richer than them.
Where on the planet you ever heard of a poorer region(BD) subsidising a richer region(Pakistani)?
Doers poorer Wales subsidise richer England?

Anyway keep up with your excuses while BD grows and grows. Unless Pakistan changes, 20 years down the line it will be still a 3rd world country and BD a solid 2nd world economy.

I hope the current Pakistani government is a lot more humble than the Pakistani posters here as otherwise the future for Pakistan is very bleak.

The Welsh and English comparison is clumsy, but lets entertain it for a moment. Where did you think all the Welsh coal went? Did the money get spent in Wales? Perhaps Yorskhire should be asking for it's share of the profits Britain made from using/selling it's coal. Scotish oil is another example. Scotland doesn't get all the money from that - yet it's clearly not as wealthy as SE England. How about the steel in Wales, Sheffield etc - exported all over the world, yet you don't see Sheffield as Dubai or Singapore.

In nations the wealth is placed in the hands of government and spent where required, or where the government sees fit. You get to change that at the ballot box. In third world countries, sometimes you don't get to do that either. Bangladeshis who justified a civil war and the creation of another state from 1 based on the context of supression of democracy, are today in this very thread making excuses for Hasina's quashing of democracy for a sense of the greater good.

Sometimes you have to look beyond the bias.

Karachi subsidises the rest of Pakistan as it is richer than them.

Also as for Karachi, it is richer, but a big part of that is because of the luck of geography. A historical port city, former capital of the country, gateway for imports, also then makes it desireable for manufacturing as there is less transport costs involved in getting parts north and products back south.

I'm not saying Karachi doesn't deserve it's wealth or that it's people aren't working hard or making the most of their opportunities, but it's geography gave it an edge. Just like Punjabs geography gives it an edge in agriculture. Balochistans geography gives it natural gas. As a nation we share the input that each of us give.

Do we have issues we distribution of that input - of course we do. Government are to blame for that.