What can Pakistan can purchase to improve air defense?

[araz]

So you actually believe this hilariously fake news?

Iran's head of air defence was promoted to the assistant commander of Iran's army.

Brig. Gen. Esmaili named assistant commander of Iran Army

https://en.mehrnews.com/news/134524/Brig-Gen-Esmaili-named-assistant-commander-of-Iran-Army

You're in a defence forum for god sakes, how do you not know how to properly research these things.
Forgetting the fact the F35 cannot even reach Iran properly, you actually thought the Kuwaiti news posting this was authentic?



Let's take Iran's air defence for example, hasn't Iran shot shot Americans systems few times already? What's your definition of "something concrete"? You Pakistanis are importing Chinese systems that have never seen anything close to combat, and yet when Iranians (member on here) offer you systems that have actually been used, you make such silly claims.

I wonder if you actually believe your statements or if you're just saying it because you can't stand the fact Iran is developing such systems? If so, then instead of being jealous, be happy that your neighbour is developing such advanced systems by itself. Iran-Pakistan are brothers, despite what many propagandists wants you to believe.

My brother.
You dont know what is in my heart so dont talk about what you think I believe as a fact. I wish the Iranians the best of luck in all their endeavours. Currently they have no product which we would want to buy( even if we could due to the embargo). When there is a suitable product we will make enquiries. The rest of your post is absolutely irrelevant so I wont respond. It is simply a case of what we need and what you can provide.
A

 

[WinterNights]

My brother.
You dont know what is in my heart so dont talk about what you think I believe as a fact. I wish the Iranians the best of luck in all their endeavours. Currently they have no product which we would want to buy( even if we could due to the embargo). When there is a suitable product we will make enquiries. The rest of your post is absolutely irrelevant so I wont respond. It is simply a case of what we need and what you can provide.
A

For example, why Pakistan would not need/want to buy Iran's third of khordad air defence.

This is the system that downed the American triton with ease. It is a highly mobile air defence, with active homing missiles ranges up to a range of 105km. It also has AESA radars.

This system would be a nightmare for your enemies. My brother, don't underestimate Iran's defence capability. Short of a major war, it has tested many of it's system in combat, ranging from missiles to UAVs.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

For example, why Pakistan would not need/want to buy Iran's third of khordad air defence.

This is the system that downed the American triton with ease. It is a highly mobile air defence, with active homing missiles ranges up to a range of 105km. It also has AESA radars.

This system would be a nightmare for your enemies. My brother, don't underestimate Iran's defence capability. Short of a major war, it has tested many of it's system in combat, ranging from missiles to UAVs.

No thank you

 

[SOHEIL]

For example, why Pakistan would not need/want to buy Iran's third of khordad air defence.

This is the system that downed the American triton with ease. It is a highly mobile air defence, with active homing missiles ranges up to a range of 105km. It also has AESA radars.

This system would be a nightmare for your enemies. My brother, don't underestimate Iran's defence capability. Short of a major war, it has tested many of it's system in combat, ranging from missiles to UAVs.

There is no downgraded version like Russian and Chinese systems for export !

 

[araz]

I think if we ask,your army will give it to us.i think there is still good relations between the two countries.



Sir I understand your point.economy is a very big problem and I feel that project azm is in danger due to financial crisis but this long range radar is extremely important because India is planning more attacks in Pakistan just like balakot do we must prepare ourselves.

Arsalan
Without going into detail I will reemphasize Iran has nothing to offer us. Take it or leave it. As to radars we require small quantities and will probably end up buying them from a reputable supplier.
A

For example, why Pakistan would not need/want to buy Iran's third of khordad air defence.

This is the system that downed the American triton with ease. It is a highly mobile air defence, with active homing missiles ranges up to a range of 105km. It also has AESA radars.

This system would be a nightmare for your enemies. My brother, don't underestimate Iran's defence capability. Short of a major war, it has tested many of it's system in combat, ranging from missiles to UAVs.

You have downed a US drone and you think you have the arms to sell us. Please enlighten me as to how you propose we bypass the current arms embargo that Iran has. To date NO ONE has bought a teddy penny's worth of arms from Iran. Why do you think this is so. The whole world cannot be against Iran. So answer me why do you think we should buy an untested system which no one will buy. There is a lot more going on in Pakistan defence circles and we dont need arms from Iran.
Please let me re emphasize I wish Iran the best of luck in its endeavours. You have a great nation with history dating back 4000 yrs. So you will eventuallly achieve your rightful position in the world. But currently there is nothing you offer which we need.
A

 

[WinterNights]

A


You have downed a US drone and you think you have the arms to sell us. Please enlighten me as to how you ropose we bypass the current arms embargo that Iran has. To date NO ONE has bought a teddy penny's worth of arms from Iran. Why do you think this is so. The whole world cannot be against Iran. So answer me why do you think we should buy an untested system which no one will buy. There is a lot more going on in Pakistan defence circles and we dont need arms from Iran.
Please let me re emphasize I wish Iran the best of luck in its endeavours. You have a great nation with history dating back 4000 yrs. So you will eventuallly achieve your rightful position in the world. But currently there is nothing you offer which we need.
A

So in the same post where you say Iran downed a US drone, you then say the system is untested? Do you want them to shoot down a F-22 before you say it's tested?
The reason "no one" officially buys Iranian systems is due to sanctions, however, as you can see, Iranian arms are being used all over the place. If indeed Iran is willing to sell and Pakistan wants to buy, Iran can workaround the sanctions.

 

[fitpOsitive]

From what I understand Pakistan's air defence capabilities are somewhat lacking. What I propose Pakistan do is simple, buy more air defense systems comprising Short Range Air Defense (SHORAD) and High to Medium Air Defense (HIMAD). The most likely supplier would be China which would be the best choice in terms of the supply of parts, radars, and associated equipment in conflicts. I know Pakistan has purchased the LY-80 and the FM-90 but the number purchased was insufficient and their engagement ranges aren't very far. The KS-1 SAM is a good missile for Pakistan because of a variant called HQ-22 which has performance comparable to the HQ-9

• HQ-22: The HQ-22 (export version FK-3) is China’s new generation medium-range, radar-guided surface-to-air missile. It is a second-generation variant of the HQ-12, has a range of up to 170km and an effective altitude from 50 m to 27 km. It is relatively cheaper to produce than the HQ-9 and will form one of the mainstays of China’s air defense system, replacing the Cold-War era HQ-22. Command guidance/semi active radar homing guidance.

If Pakistan purchased 10-20 of these spread around the country in strategic positions India would surely suffer aircraft losses that are unacceptable.

If you have any input be sure to tell me.

Now I will talk about SHORAD procurement that I think would do Pakistan good. The Sky Dragon 50 is a SAM developed from the PL-12 air to air missile that is comparable to the NASAMS. The Sky Dragon 50 uses the DK-10A missile derived from the surface-to-air missile PL-12 series. The DK-10 is derived from SD-10A, and the missile is lengthened with an additional booster stage, which has larger diameter than the original air-to-air missile. SD-10 is the export version of the PL-12. The DK-10A has a range from 3 to 50 km and can be used from altitude of 30 m to 20 km. The missile flies at a velocity of more than 1,000 m/s and is highly maneuverable, with a maximum overload of up to 38 g. To hit the target, the missile uses an inertial guidance system and data-link. The missile has a 20 kg High Explosive (HE) fragmentation warhead. If 20-30 of these systems were purchased an additional defense against Indian aircraft and even if India achieves air superiority they can still be harrased by SAM systems.

For short range air defense on a mobile system I think the Sky Dragon 12 and it looks pretty similar to the Pantsir and would be a good system to purchase for short range air defense. The Sky Dragon is fitted with 12 Tianlong 12/ SD-12/ FK-1000 missiles which is Russian 9M311 missile exported to China in 2005. The 9M311 missile (NATO designation SA-19 Grison) has semi-automatic radar command to line-of-sight guidance, weighs 40kg with a 9kg warhead. It is 2.5m long with a diameter of 1.7m and wingspan of 2.2m. The missile's maximum speed is 900m/s and can engage targets travelling at speeds up to 500m/s. The range of the FK-1000 missile is from 2 to 12 km for and can be used has an altitude from 15 m to 5,000m. This is the missile from the Tunguska.

You still feel that Pakistani air defenses are weak?

 

[Fieldmarshal]

Let's put it this way...
If Iran had the option they themselves wouldent buy their own systems

 

[WinterNights]

Let's put it this way...
If Iran had the option they themselves wouldent buy their own systems

That's why Iran rejected Russia's offer for S-400 and instead went for its own system? Next time think a litle before making such a nonsensical claim. Iran is one of the few nations that can claim it's hardware have actually been tested in combat.

 

[araz]

So in the same post where you say Iran downed a US drone, you then say the system is untested? Do you want them to shoot down a F-22 before you say it's tested?
The reason "no one" officially buys Iranian systems is due to sanctions, however, as you can see, Iranian arms are being used all over the place. If indeed Iran is willing to sell and Pakistan wants to buy, Iran can workaround the sanctions.

There is a subtle difference between a slowly moving drone and a fast jet. Knowing the difference should have made the penny drop. However you persist in your nationalism. Please carry on and best of luck.
A

 

[Dubious]

And Pakistan's ISI has Iranian blood on her hands ... Even thinking about exporting arms to Pakistan as long as ISI exists sounds disgusting !

@waz this on the other hand deserves a minimum warning in my opinion!

 

[WinterNights]

There is a subtle difference between a slow ly moving drone nd a fst jet. Knowing the difference should have made the penny drop. However you persist in your nationalism. Please carry on and best of luck.
A

A $200 million dollar UAV flying at 52,000 feet equipped with state of art Raytheon EW suite systems being downed may not be downing an F-35, but it still shows a capability. I am just highlighting your hypocrisy where Iranians system apparently have to reach a higher bar to be consider tested even though they actually have been tested and you're okay importing systems from places like China whose system you rather wants (in case of air defence) have seen nothing like an actual tested.

This has nothing to do with nationalism. Just common sense observations.

 

[zulu]

Thats why i tag mods rather than engaging him myself just deleting the post is not sufficient because he directly accused our armed forces of such baseless crimes and all this on PDF??? @Arsalan than u complain why we start trolling aisii galiyaan dainy py aisyy hi chor dain ???

@waz this on the other hand deserves a minimum warning in my opinion!

 

[loanranger]

I don't know ... But I know some Pakistani members hate Iran so much !

Umm it might be because Iran plays a strange double game where it backs baloch rebels aswell as RAW operatives aswell as pitting chabhar as a rival to Gawadar yet acts as if Pakistan is its friend.
Solution to our problem: F**k India as they will not leave the US for you and the US is your enemy.

 

[925boy]

Arsalan
Without going into detail I will reemphasize Iran has nothing to offer us. Take it or leave it. As to radars we require small quantities and will probably end up buying them from a reputable supplier.
A

In general, Iran has little to offer Pakistan. I can agree with that. But i can also agree that Iran has something to offer to a Pakistan that has a lower/weaker budget for weapons. You guys want top notch arms but you're sacrificing your national development for them because you dont have enough $$$ to fund them all and your national devt at same time and def not without sacrificing your external reserves...cash is your achilles heel. You guys also actually blocked the pipeline with Iran because you said it was the sanctions, but we have news that its because you were actually taking Saudi cash to NOt connect the Iranian pipeline to Pakistan. thats ok, you have your real situation, but we should be open and honest about it in public.

have downed a US drone and you think you have the arms to sell us.

Thats your conclusion. Iranian weapons and equipment are not top notch, but for their price and availability, they are good enough. Iran has many weapons to sell to Pakistan if a deal could happen. Just because you dunno what Iran can sell to Pakistan, you shouldnt conclude and say Iran has no arms to sell to Pakistan.

enlighten me as to how you propose we bypass the current arms embargo that Iran has.

The embargo on selling weapons to Iran ends next year, so its only 1 year for the UN arms embargo to expire, but you still wont buy, because Saudis and GCC have you following instructions for their $. Sorry.

To date NO ONE has bought a teddy penny's worth of arms from Iran. Why do you think this is so. The whole world cannot be against Iran. So answer me why do you think we should buy an untested system which no one will buy.

Is that so? Sudan bought drones and military trucks, Syria has bought Fast Attack Crafts with cruise missiles, mobile ballistic missiles(M600/F-110), Iraqi PMU and armed forces have bought trucks, sniper rifles, tank shells etc from Iran. You just dont know enough on this topic and you are concluding prematurely.