We salute Pak fight against terror: Israel

[muse]

l

iberalism is the cancer that is eating us !!!! and west implanted that in our body cells It's not the Arabs they are our fellow Muslim brothers

Side with arabs who finance insurgency against your fellow Pakistanis?? And you actually expect that message to gain acceptance?

 

[Mutee]

l

Side with arabs who finance insurgency against your fellow Pakistanis?? And you actually expect that message to gain acceptance?

You side with westerners who kill our own brothers and you expect me to buy that bc ?

 

[DV RULES]

l

Side with arabs who finance insurgency against your fellow Pakistanis??

Typical point of thinking, blame others but never take actions to correct yourself.
Unfortunately our people likely used to make comments like that,

THEY DID
THEY RESPONSIBLE
THEY INVOLVED

 

[muse]

No I don't expect you to buy into my position -- I respect your position and the ideas that inform it - I think the ideas that misform you today, if not corrected, will end up causing you and yours, harm. See, Pakistan is going to get past Islamican political violence, in other words the self respect of ordinary Pakistanis requires that Islamican political violence be defeated - it does nto matter who supports the Islamicans, whether it's arabs, or army or America, Islamican political violence will be defeated, Pakistan will be a part of the world and it will have diplomatic relations with Israel - some will like and some not, but it will happen -- seems to that it's not wise to invest such emotion as you do in the position

 

[DV RULES]

Recall Napak-istan?? Recall Kafir e Azam? and some say Pakistan " came into existence on Islamic ideology", an outright lie. No one, regardless of how the so called "religious" try and lie about it, will forget, Napak-istan and no one is goig to forget Kafir e Azam -- so chill, make arguments of reason, if you try and falsify history, you only end up hurting your position.

muse

I know only one thing, those who use to call Pakistan & Quaid e Azam with prefix Na & Ka are psychologically dis balanced, they are people who use to sit eat food and then stand with saying " Cook is disqualified & food tasteless" Shame on them.

 

[Mutee]

No I don't expect you to buy into my position -- I respect your position and the ideas that inform it - I think the ideas that misform you today, if not corrected, will end up causing you and yours, harm. See, Pakistan is going to get past Islamican political violence, in other words the self respect of ordinary Pakistanis requires that Islamican political violence be defeated - it does nto matter who supports the Islamicans, whether it's arabs, or army or America, Islamican political violence will be defeated, Pakistan will be a part of the world and it will have diplomatic relations with Israel - some will like and some not, but it will happen -- seems to that it's not wise to invest such emotion as you do in the position

brother just one question Have you read the holy Quran ? If yes please translate Surat AL_ MAEDA For me?

 

[Mutee]

I am here waiting

 

[DV RULES]

No I don't expect you to buy into my position -- I respect your position and the ideas that inform it - I think the ideas that misform you today, if not corrected, will end up causing you and yours, harm. See, Pakistan is going to get past Islamican political violence, in other words the self respect of ordinary Pakistanis requires that Islamican political violence be defeated - it does nto matter who supports the Islamicans, whether it's arabs, or army or America, Islamican political violence will be defeated, Pakistan will be a part of the world and it will have diplomatic relations with Israel - some will like and some not, but it will happen -- seems to that it's not wise to invest such emotion as you do in the position

Frankly speaking, from 1st post to last post in this thread i wrote without any emotions and i don't know what kind of emotions in politics & strategic relations. Ok let we assume that relations with Israel we will develop but i am repeating that we have not to make mistake what usually we are doing in developing relations.
Believe me there is so difference between Israeli & Pakistani general point of thinking, their style of dealing, plannings not comparable, why because we got hit because of our hospitality and they make hit because of our hospitality.
Right, every country keep first his own interest but we have to evaluate and analyze counter interests.
Moreover a big drawback of our foreign policy or government lack of making balance of relations between countries. Just look over India, playing with both super powers and we? like a man in trance following a country who didn't built progressive unless a factory of militants which production is killing us and we get to death bear his messes.
Develop relations but not forget with whom we are going to develop ties.

 

[Omar1984]

Yes kill your own people Pakistanis for this war OF terror. Only the enemies of Pakistan will benefit, Israel and India.

Pakistan should never accept Israel. Imagine Israeli "diplomats" walking around Islamabad, Lahore, and Peshawar. They'll be 1000 times worst than Raymond Davis. Those Zionists hate Muslims more than anything in the world.

Pakistan is a threat to Zionists because Pakistan is the only Islamic country that is a Nuclear Power.

 

[Mutee]

Please every one who supports this idea of friendship with them ask them to translate surah AL-MAIDA for u

 

[muse]

Believe me there is so difference between Israeli & Pakistani general point of thinking, their style of dealing, plannings not comparable, why because we got hit because of our hospitality and they make hit because of our hospitality.
Right, every country keep first his own interest but we have to evaluate and analyze counter interests.

Yes, there is and ought to be, they are not us and we are not them -- we are talking about diplomatic relations, not some kind of marriage -- Are they different, sure they -- UK are different from us, are they not? and Russia are different from us, are they not? and Brazil are different from us, isn't that so? and yet we have diplomatic relations with UK, Russia and Brazil.

See, DV, diplomatic relations are just an acknowledgment of reality -- Islamicans, because they are Utopians, have a problem with acknowledging reality -- I'm not suggesting the Israeli are good guys, nor am I suggesting that in Pakistan there are not many who find that it is a issue of conscience with them, this problem between Israel and what is left of Palestine, but none of these things are open to influence or change, without engaging them -- see, the whole rejection bit, it's very satisfying emotionally - you know, it's like telling someone off -- but what will happen after the ten minutes when your temper has died down and the problem still remains, right??? can the affairs of nations be run in such a personal and emotional manner?

See, I know they can't and they won't -- it's best to be reasonable and see how issues that are important for many Pakistanis, get a reasonable hearing among Israelis - but first, before our concerns get reasonable hearings, they must be seen as concerns from people who are not enemies, who are fair and who genuinely want to understand the complexity and want both sides to break the bonds of emnity, don't you think?? Sure you do, because it's fair and reasonable.

 

[DV RULES]

See, DV, diplomatic relations are just an acknowledgment of reality -- Islamicans, because they are Utopians, have a problem with acknowledging reality -- I'm not suggesting the Israeli are good guys, nor am I suggesting that in Pakistan there are not many who find that it is a issue of conscience with them, this problem between Israel and what is left of Palestine, but none of these things are open to influence or change, without engaging them -- see, the whole rejection bit, it's very satisfying emotionally - you know,

See, I know they can't and they won't -- it's best to be reasonable and see how issues that are important for many Pakistanis, get a reasonable hearing among Israelis - but first, before our concerns get reasonable hearings, they must be seen as concerns from people who are not enemies, who are fair and who genuinely want to understand the complexity and want both sides to break the bonds of emnity, don't you think?? Sure you do, because it's fair and reasonable.

Yes, you are right & i am agree with you.
Nice to discuss with you.

 

[Developereo]

we are talking about diplomatic relations, not some kind of marriage

Diplomatic relations denote an implicit acceptance of their actions and ideology. It was preciesly the Arab countries' diplomatic relations with Israel which gave India the cover it needed to cement its relationship with Israel.

Pakistan did not have diplomatic relations with apartheid-era South Africa; we should not have relations with Israel.

problem between Israel and what is left of Palestine, but none of these things are open to influence or change, without engaging them

The United States of America has zero influence on Israel when they dig their heels in. What makes you think Pakistan will have any influence? This bit about influence is a rationalization to cover our guilt.

issues that are important for many Pakistanis, get a reasonable hearing among Israelis

Let's dispel that myth also. I have known many Israelis and they are, first and foremost, diehard nationalists.
Does anyone think for one microsecond that, by having diplomatic relations with Israel, Pakistan will derive any real benefit?
Will the Israeli lobbies in the West drop their attacks on Pakistan?
Will they support Pakistan against India in the Kashmir issue? Or even diminish support for India?
Will it have the slightest dent in the India-Israel military relationship which formed precisely to oppose Pakistan?

Bottom line: reognizing Israel has zero benefits for Pakistan. It only benefits Israel by enhancing their veneer of acceptability in the Muslim world.

Even Turkey is beginning to accept the true face of Israel and distancing themselves from it.

 

[Patriot]

We should not have diplomatic relations with Israel.Why: Because fundoos at home will have another target for conspiracy theories and will probably end up attacking their embassies.

 

[muse]

Diplomatic relations denote an implicit acceptance of their actions and ideology

Pakistan has diplomatic relations with India - Does that mean Pakistan approve of Hindutva and the Indian governments behavior in captive Kashmir?? Well??

During the wars with India, Pakistan continued to maintain diplomatic relations with India - was that because even as pakistan warred with India, Pakistan implicitly accepted Indian actions and ideology??

See, Developero, I think the statement you haver offered is not among some of your best.

Will the Israeli lobbies in the West drop their attacks on Pakistan?
Will they support Pakistan against India in the Kashmir issue? Or even diminish support for India?
Will it have the slightest dent in the India-Israel military relationship which formed precisely to oppose Pakistan?

Israeli lobbies in the West are are attacking Pakistan?? Will they support Pakistan over India?? No, I don't think so, should Pakistan and India continue to be locked into hostile and self defeating postures??
Will Israel and India continue to have military relationship? Sure, why not?

No reason for hysterical arguments, take it, nice and easy - we are not deciding the fate of the universe of anything.

Diplomatic relations serve as the foundations for deeper relations, in other words, diplomatic relations come before even the possibility of deeper relations - it's a unreasonable frame of mind that suggests it's give me everything and I'll give diplomatic relations