Was Osama Bin Laden Allowed To Escape To Pakistan To Entrap Pakistan Later

[MastanKhan]

Creative Americans blamed Pakistan for missed cruise missile stike

@MastanKhan @Horus @AgNoStiC MuSliM @araz
my random ramblings for your viewing pleasures


Americans are the masters of mindcraft they can pull off a positive story in their favour & they know their mainstream media will sing in unison all in the name of patriotism and “freedom”.

Background

When OBL was first sited during Clinton era,

why wasn’t he targeted?

Apologetic view. Oh the Drones were not armed back then.

Did/ has CIA done all its killing via drones only?

clueless view: ??? what?

Naughty view: Clinton was more interested in getting into the knickers of Monica Lewinsky back then.


(A) Any further apologies/ explanations on this failure?

Hell yea. It was the Pakistanis that made an “untraceable” direct phone call to OBL… warning him about an incoming American Cruise Missile. The Missile which was flying over Pakistani airspace & Pakistan was informed in advance about the intended target. So OBL got off his wife, took a bath, changed clothes, put his shoes on, called his driver , got in his truck and drove away along with his wives, goats and friends and set a new world record of beating a cruise missile. Had the Pakistanis not been informed, they won’t have made the “untraceable” phone call directly on OBL’s satellite phone and he wont have got off his wife, took a bath, changed clothes, put his shoes on and called his driver to drive him away from the Tomahawk missile cruising towards him. Damn the untraceable phone calls and Toyota trucks.

What Helped the Americans to pull of OBL raid and claim sole glory?

The circumstances & personalities in Pakistan.

· A vindictive & petty president.

o President of Pakistan by accident with PPP/ Feudal history of hostility towards PA

· COAS on Weed.

o Clueless, ill-informed, self-serving & docile (as illustrious as Gen Jahangir Karamat). He originally thought the attack was on Pakistani nuclear installations.

· Hateful Haqqani

o More of an American viceroy rather than Pakistani Ambassador with morbid hatred towards Pakistani armed forces & found the chance to score against his most hated Pakistani institution)

What do above 3 have to do with the OBL raid and the fallout and all that?

Zardari/ Haqqani might have had some indication of something happening but information was kept out from COAS. OR, if they didn’t know, their follow-up actions (& words till today) were such that showed that they basked in the joy of seeing Pakistan military being ridiculed and its image tarnished. And Kyani? Well he never knew much and was mostly busy looking for his next cigarette.

Aftermath?

In one stroke the previous failures & mercy dealings were forgotten although the failure in Torabora was borderline treason & malicious when the American forces were told to stand down allowing OBL to escape. Gen Tommy Franks apologizes by blaming the Afghan allies but doesn’t go further.

but this (letting OBL go or stay in mystery) does make sense when you recall the news about OBL’s medical treatment by in American military hospital in Dubai.


The Media adds.

When the American administration graciously “cleared” Pakistani military leadership about knowing / harboring OBL in Abbottabad, another story was spinned saying that maybe middle/ lower ranking officers were responsible for keeping OBL in Abbottabad for 6 or 8 years. (another note for readers ignorant of how military works, no middle or lower ranking officer has any say or prior knowledge about who will come and replace him after 2 years which is maximum stay in one place before his rotation to another station. Expecting a cabal of lower ranking officers keeping it secret for nearly a decade from the rest of the leadership and the world sounds good for movie/ book plot but hard to pull off in reality.


Continue the onslaught on Pakistan for its “deceit” and “double game”. Foreign media discovered a former Pakistani COAS (for few hours) Gen Ziauddin Butt who “speculated” that Gen Mushrraf either “knew” about OBL in Abbottabad and he also mentioned a civil servant Mr shah who was responsible for the housekeeping of OBL. (dear readers, do keep in mind the timeline, Gen Ziaduddin was given the boot as Musharraf took over in 1999 and the OBL raid took place in 2011). Although one can set aside his personal grudge (and chance to settle score ) against Musharraf but one must wonder how he knows all this despite being out of the military for over 10 years?

Did the foreign media not think was he the one who made the “untraceable” phone call to OBL when Clinton was nailing Monica? I mean a TomaHawk was heading towards OBL in Afghanistan?

Another convenient omission made by American narrative is the ISI contribution towards tracking OBL. The Abbottabad place was raided before and found empty but the key lead was provided by ISI when it passed the suspicious movements of the AQ courier. ISI had no prior knowledge of the person outside Pakistan but it was godsend for CIA that had this guy marked outside Pakistan and thus it served as a crucial piece of information. But this breakthrough was not shared with ISI (as the narrative goes).


Other honorable mentions

· What became of OBL’s wife?

o Where is she? What did she say? Did American’s ask for her from Pakistan? Could Pakistan refuse to hand her over after it had been “exposed” sheltering OBL? (as per popular narrative).

· Why no mention of Chinook?

o Yes there was a recovery helicopter sent by Americans (“sans the sexy stealth”) that came to pickup SEAL’s & equipment after the crash? It gets a passing reference in one documentary & audience is left to believe that one “stealth Hawk” was able to carry the crew of two helicopters + intel retrieved + the OBL body.

Some Contradictions

· OBL raid & Benazir’s Comment to Frost

o Ok, not a conspiracy argument but since we are talking OBL, one cant help but recall that short clip where Benazir mentioned the death of OBL and David Frost never interrupted or clarified with her.

o

· American Marine Col Bob Papas claim

o OBL was killed in Tora Bora raid. But the information was kept secret to keep the war going.

· Gen Musharraf maintained that OBL couldn’t survive without dialysis due to his kidney problem and needed constant medical attention so he was in Pakistan (or American hospital in Dubai) all the time and the American drone mistook a goat for OBL during Clinton time and the American special forces were chasing his discarded turban in Tora Bora


Why So sentimental?

a laughable excuse by the American administration about not showing Binladen’s body was that it will aggravate Muslims in the world and will put American lives in danger. Talk about being subtle after invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq leading to the deaths of millions of people though direct military action and decades old sanctions/ blockade of Iraq… the American administration was suddenly worried about the sentiments (and danger to Americans) after killing their prime

Hi,

Thank you for your comments.

The drone at kandhar was armed and itching to launch.

 

[Oldman1]

Why dont you go out of Kabul in Afghanistan and you will know wether taliban are hiding in Pakistan or what.Yes IRAQ is nt ruled by sadam as it is ruled now by the Peace keepers ISIS.Only an american would consider this a victory

Who gets out of Kabul? You know American forces goes around hunting Taliban wherever they are. I mean look where the Navy Seals went to find Osama. Thats right in Pakistan. Thats far from Kabul if you know your geography.

And each year the Taliban likes to start what they called Spring Offensive each year since 2001. Shows where they like to hide.

 

[my2cents]

A few days ago---Hilary Clinton's email information released stated that Gen Tommy Frank and Rumsfeld allowed the escape of Osama Bin Laden fro Kandhar and Tora Bora-----

The loitering armed drone over kandhar had the house on the camera screen where Osama Bin Laden--Mullah Omar and their cohorts were present and the all the concerned generals and staff in the U S military were watching the scenario. The drone loitered around for somewhere around an hour over the house---but no order was given to pull the trigger to launch the missiles to kill the terrorists and the murderer of 3000 american men and women.

The entourage ultimately came out of the house---got in their trucks and took off and the drone was called back as it was running out of fuel.

Fast forward it to a few days later. Osama Bin Laden is trapped at Tora Bora by a contingent of the u s rangers who are desperately begging for reinforcements and aerial strikes---though none materialize and Osam Bin Laden and his team climbing thru the Tora Bora passes disappears into the high mountains.

On both these occasions Gen. Tommy Franks and Mr. Rumsfeld were watching the scenario on live camera and tv broadcast along with many other generals and high ranking politicians.

There might have been other sightings of Osama later by the australians---but no one authorized the team to pull the trigger.

So---the concern occurs that---did the U S let Osama escape intentionally both the times---did this escape have ulterior motives---was this escape planned to push pakistan down in the future---was this escape planned in such a manner to manipulate the situation against pakistan---was this escape planned that if on a future date Pakistan became too demanding and out of control---the Osama card could be played by the U S to neutralize the threat being posed by pakistan in the future. The reason being that having good relations with pakistan was not on the cards of the U S----what had happened was situational and it would not be prolonged after a certain time period.

So---a prop need to be set in place to be pulled down when the time became right to cut off pakistan at its knees. The american president stated in his speeches that Osama Bin Laden's capture was not a top priority---Osama had no stake left in the power projection of al qaeda---Osama had become a nobody---we do not care about Osama---as much as the U S govt was trying to down play the position of Osama amongst the terrorist community---so many RED FLAGS were going up at the same time.

A prudent observer would have started thinking about the deceit and deception being masked behind those statements---a question should have been asked " what the hell is happening over here "----what is happening with the U S----why is the U S making these statements----what is behind this game face---what is the U S trying to do---who is the U S trying to frame---but none came up with those conerns.

That prop became Osama Bin Laden himself---and the U S became the conduit in finding a place for him thru proxy---and there is a very good possibility that Osama had no clue who was behind setting him up or who suggested the place and the location for the house that he lived in---or who pushed and nudged the team to move in Abbotabad location close to the military academy.

The agency playbook states that if you want to hide in the woods---you become a tree---on the side of a mountain---become a rock----and in a city---become a part of one of the houses----and the best place where about and location of the house---close to a police station---military installations or place close or right next to security agencies----living right under their noses and act and mould in the community you are living in.

Osama followed all those rules and guidelines right to the dot.

Knowing the pakistanis----no pakistani would help do that---. They would sell their first born for the 25 million dollars reward.

So---when a phone trace was caught by the ISI and the U S was informed by pak militray about the courier---the U S was in a quandry---what to do---. The action had to be taken---possibly the time was not ripe for the action because there was no end to the game in afghanistan.

So---after the operation ended---even though the media blasted pakistan and every conspiracy theorist blamed pakistan for setting up Osama---the govt of united states kept quiet about the issue---not saying anything----makes you wonder!


Bush Had No Plan to Catch Bin Laden After 9/11 - by Gareth Porter

Osama Bin Laden Escaped in 2001 Because of Donald Rumsfeld: Hilary Clinton - Pakistan Latest News Online!

Complete 911 Timeline: Escape From Afghanistan

Declassified documents shed light on scramble to 'hit' bin Laden before 9/11 – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

Here is the reply Mr. Micheal Scheuer wrote to Mr. Gary Schoen a CIA field agent after the intel memo he furnished about OBL was not acted upon in 1998.

"This is the third time you and your officers have put UBL in this government's sights and they have balked each time at doing the job. ... They spent a good deal of time yesterday worrying that some stray shapnel might hit the Habash mosque and 'offend' Muslims."

Mind you, they were in hunt for OBL even before 9/11 happened in 2001. There were lot of missed opportunities wrt OBL post 9/11 also. Now how far are you going to go with your theory of defaming Pakistan.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

The only understandable logic by analyzing all the events is that:
After 9/11 US pointed out OBL as the mastermind behind the attack. Leaving all conspiracy theories aside that either he did that or not.. USA attacked Afghanistan and then Iraq, chasing Al-Qaeda and its leadership.
Now if OBL and other top figures were taken out right at the start, then there were little justifications behind to continue WoT. That clearly then administration did not want. To continue the war, there has to be some objective. In this war, that was OBL.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

By the Grace of ALLAH USA has failed to achieve for whatever reason they came to Afghnistan and like every time in the last 50 years they will be going back home like losers with trillions of dollars down the drain and alot of dead soldiers.

Or, due to the bad behaviour of Taliban and Saddam,
Allah called down a curse over Afghanistan and Iraq
in the form of the United States Army, much worse than
the ten plauges hitting Egypt.

Many bad people got killed by a flash from an open sky.

Anything is possible in an infinite universe.

 

[MastanKhan]

Here is the reply Mr. Micheal Scheuer wrote to Mr. Gary Schoen a CIA field agent after the intel memo he furnished about OBL was not acted upon in 1998.

"This is the third time you and your officers have put UBL in this government's sights and they have balked each time at doing the job. ... They spent a good deal of time yesterday worrying that some stray shapnel might hit the Habash mosque and 'offend' Muslims."

Mind you, they were in hunt for OBL even before 9/11 happened in 2001. There were lot of missed opportunities wrt OBL post 9/11 also. Now how far are you going to go with your theory of defaming Pakistan.

Hi,

I am looking at the overall picture but more so on the " situational development "---like---

Q---you know what---sh-it--hey man---Osama---we got him---what do you want me to do with him---

A---let me think----how can we use him----let me think about it a little more---just let him go and keep an eye on him---see if he is pushed into pakistan.

Q---so there is no problem!---I should let him go

A---yeah---keep a tracker on him


a couple of days later---same two people

Q---hey---these rangers caught onto to Osama at Tora Bora---they want re-inforcements

A--- no---don't send any----.

Q---they want to bomb him---they have given me the co-ordinates

A---tell them no planes are available at this time

Q---they saying he is escaping into the pass---they can see him

A---tell them not to worry---situation has been taken care of.

If Osama died in those two occasions--the war was over---there was no reason to continue---. So---he was given a reprieve---.

Next---when he escaped towards pakistan thru the mountains----in provided of another opportunity----of probing and nudging him towards a certain area---let him live there and at the right time---take him out and blame pakistan.

The plan for Iraq---Libya---Egypt---Syria and Pakistan was prepared. Egypt got lucky that Sisi was smart enough to understand the issue and took out the religious fundamemntal govt on a fastrak.

Qaddafi took too long in undertsanding the consequences-----and Bashar Asad was sort of ready----so that went into a civil war----and in pakistan---with the premature targeting of Osama---pakistan could not be targeted as well.

By the Grace of ALLAH USA has failed to achieve for whatever reason they came to Afghnistan and like every time in the last 50 years they will be going back home like losers with trillions of dollars down the drain and alot of dead soldiers.

Sir,

Either you are blind or you are clueless----. There are over a million and a quarter afghans dead in this war---over 2 million Iraqis dead in this war----over 250K libyans dead---over a million syrians dead---4 muslim countries totally smashed----3 of them very well off---and you have the AUDACITY to call it the GRACE OF ALLAH----this is the WRATH OF ALLAH.

You know what---give me the permission to kill all your family member and the total tribe of yours in the most atrocious manner and destroy all your property---and then I will ask you---IS THIS THE GRACE---or---IS THIS THE WRATH.

 

[LeGenD]

By the Grace of ALLAH USA has failed to achieve for whatever reason they came to Afghnistan and like every time in the last 50 years they will be going back home like losers with trillions of dollars down the drain and alot of dead soldiers.

Bro, this is an extremely shortsighted statement.

What have Pakistan achieved in its conflicts with India? Hint: nothing. And some Pakistani still believe that we have the finest army in the world.

So far, US have defeated several nations in conflicts (examples include Germany, Japan, Iraq, Serbia and Libya), occupied several nations against their wishes for years (examples include Japan, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan), and assassinated lot of influential individuals whom they deemed as threats. No need to underestimate its performance and experience in the matters of conflicts.

Only Americans are in the position to decide what they wanted to achieve and have achieved in their conflicts. Their motives aren't exactly clear to us.

It is 100% correct that US had located the position of Mullah Omar during the major combat operations phase of Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan, but for some reason, let him escape. Nonetheless, Mullah Omar is irrelevant because he is dead anyhow.

 

[Oldman1]

Bro, this is an extremely shortsighted statement.

What have Pakistan achieved in its conflicts with India? Hint: nothing. And some Pakistani still believe that we have the finest army in the world.

US have defeated several powerful nations in wars (examples include Germany, Japan and Iraq) and assassinated lot of influential individuals thus far. No need to underestimate its performance and experience in the matters of conflicts.

Only Americans are in the position to decide what they wanted to achieve and have achieved. Their motives aren't exactly clear to us.

It is 100% correct that US had located the position of Mullah Omar during the major combat operations of Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan but for some reason, let him escape. Nonetheless, Mullah Omar is irrelevant because he is dead anyhow.

Think it was the Afghan Intelligence that found out he was dead when the Taliban tried to keep his death a secret. They did it for 2 years or so.

 

[my2cents]

Hi,

I am looking at the overall picture but more so on the " situational development "---like---

Q---you know what---sh-it--hey man---Osama---we got him---what do you want me to do with him---

A---let me think----how can we use him----let me think about it a little more---just let him go and keep an eye on him---see if he is pushed into pakistan.

Q---so there is no problem!---I should let him go

A---yeah---keep a tracker on him


a couple of days later---same two people

Q---hey---these rangers caught onto to Osama at Tora Bora---they want re-inforcements

A--- no---don't send any----.

Q---they want to bomb him---they have given me the co-ordinates

A---tell them no planes are available at this time

Q---they saying he is escaping into the pass---they can see him

A---tell them not to worry---situation has been taken care of.

If Osama died in those two occasions--the war was over---there was no reason to continue---. So---he was given a reprieve---.

Next---when he escaped towards pakistan thru the mountains----in provided of another opportunity----of probing and nudging him towards a certain area---let him live there and at the right time---take him out and blame pakistan.

The plan for Iraq---Libya---Egypt---Syria and Pakistan was prepared. Egypt got lucky that Sisi was smart enough to understand the issue and took out the religious fundamemntal govt on a fastrak.

Qaddafi took too long in undertsanding the consequences-----and Bashar Asad was sort of ready----so that went into a civil war----and in pakistan---with the premature targeting of Osama---pakistan could not be targeted as well.

So, your conclusion is that Americans missed on purpose and allowed the war to drag until they are satisfied with enough killing of muslims. Then they target OBL who was scapegoat all along to achieve their sinister designs for muslim world ie mass extermination..

Do you actually believe that?? And American citizens are all fools who went along with this plan unwittingly and that too for so long???

 

[VCheng]

So, your conclusion is that Americans missed on purpose and allowed the war to drag until they are satisfied with enough killing of muslims. Then they target OBL who was scapegoat all along to achieve their sinister designs for muslim world ie mass extermination..

Do you actually believe that?? And American citizens are all fools who went along with this plan unwittingly and that too for so long???

Those who believe that are actually in an overwhelming majority not just here in the forum membership and at the highest levels, but in the actual country as well.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

A few days ago---Hilary Clinton's email information released stated that Gen Tommy Frank and Rumsfeld allowed the escape of Osama Bin Laden fro Kandhar and Tora Bora-----

The loitering armed drone over kandhar had the house on the camera screen where Osama Bin Laden--Mullah Omar and their cohorts were present and the all the concerned generals and staff in the U S military were watching the scenario. The drone loitered around for somewhere around an hour over the house---but no order was given to pull the trigger to launch the missiles to kill the terrorists and the murderer of 3000 american men and women.

The entourage ultimately came out of the house---got in their trucks and took off and the drone was called back as it was running out of fuel.

Fast forward it to a few days later. Osama Bin Laden is trapped at Tora Bora by a contingent of the u s rangers who are desperately begging for reinforcements and aerial strikes---though none materialize and Osam Bin Laden and his team climbing thru the Tora Bora passes disappears into the high mountains.

On both these occasions Gen. Tommy Franks and Mr. Rumsfeld were watching the scenario on live camera and tv broadcast along with many other generals and high ranking politicians.

There might have been other sightings of Osama later by the australians---but no one authorized the team to pull the trigger.

So---the concern occurs that---did the U S let Osama escape intentionally both the times---did this escape have ulterior motives---was this escape planned to push pakistan down in the future---was this escape planned in such a manner to manipulate the situation against pakistan---was this escape planned that if on a future date Pakistan became too demanding and out of control---the Osama card could be played by the U S to neutralize the threat being posed by pakistan in the future. The reason being that having good relations with pakistan was not on the cards of the U S----what had happened was situational and it would not be prolonged after a certain time period.

So---a prop need to be set in place to be pulled down when the time became right to cut off pakistan at its knees. The american president stated in his speeches that Osama Bin Laden's capture was not a top priority---Osama had no stake left in the power projection of al qaeda---Osama had become a nobody---we do not care about Osama---as much as the U S govt was trying to down play the position of Osama amongst the terrorist community---so many RED FLAGS were going up at the same time.

A prudent observer would have started thinking about the deceit and deception being masked behind those statements---a question should have been asked " what the hell is happening over here "----what is happening with the U S----why is the U S making these statements----what is behind this game face---what is the U S trying to do---who is the U S trying to frame---but none came up with those conerns.

That prop became Osama Bin Laden himself---and the U S became the conduit in finding a place for him thru proxy---and there is a very good possibility that Osama had no clue who was behind setting him up or who suggested the place and the location for the house that he lived in---or who pushed and nudged the team to move in Abbotabad location close to the military academy.

The agency playbook states that if you want to hide in the woods---you become a tree---on the side of a mountain---become a rock----and in a city---become a part of one of the houses----and the best place where about and location of the house---close to a police station---military installations or place close or right next to security agencies----living right under their noses and act and mould in the community you are living in.

Osama followed all those rules and guidelines right to the dot.

Knowing the pakistanis----no pakistani would help do that---. They would sell their first born for the 25 million dollars reward.

So---when a phone trace was caught by the ISI and the U S was informed by pak militray about the courier---the U S was in a quandry---what to do---. The action had to be taken---possibly the time was not ripe for the action because there was no end to the game in afghanistan.

So---after the operation ended---even though the media blasted pakistan and every conspiracy theorist blamed pakistan for setting up Osama---the govt of united states kept quiet about the issue---not saying anything----makes you wonder!


Bush Had No Plan to Catch Bin Laden After 9/11 - by Gareth Porter

Osama Bin Laden Escaped in 2001 Because of Donald Rumsfeld: Hilary Clinton - Pakistan Latest News Online!

Complete 911 Timeline: Escape From Afghanistan

Declassified documents shed light on scramble to 'hit' bin Laden before 9/11 – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

I just want to know one freaking thing, where is the proof that he was actually caught in abbottabad? WHERE IS THE PROOF?

His body was dumped in the ocean with no proof of any kind, no video proof, no DNA proof, not even a single picture of his corpse and nobody tries to question the official story.

Just the American Government's testimony is proof enough BS.

 

[Spectre]

Those who believe that are actually in an overwhelming majority not just here in the forum membership and at the highest levels, but in the actual country as well.

Is it surprising? History revision is not a new concept - Heroes and Villains are often interchangeable in today's world of relative morality.

But prevalence of conspiracy theories points towards serious issues psychologically and the traumas suffered- it is a recent phenomenon that complete societies from certain demographics have fallen prey to this bug - I wonder what it portends about the state of affairs.

Disclaimer - I am not absolving or incriminating anyone. It bears to keep in mind that the next stage of evolution from delusion is often mania. The Whole world must do it's part to contribute in the healing process and reverse this sad decay for which it is we who are responsible.

 

[mikhail ivanovich]

yes, he was. Because how america would have killed so many **** citizens in drone strike which was covertly supported by their own govt. Pakistan is a land of conspiracy theories and the same conspiracy theories are slowly but steadly eating pakistan from inside out.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Think it was the Afghan Intelligence that found out he was dead when the Taliban tried to keep his death a secret. They did it for 2 years or so.

that is right. NDS was blamed for the "leak" thus sabotaging the 4 parties peace initiative resulting in further deaths of civilians and personnel from Afghan and NATO. (much to the relief of the Indians)

 

[VCheng]

Is it surprising? History revision is not a new concept - Heroes and Villains are often interchangeable in today's world of relative morality.

But prevalence of conspiracy theories points towards serious issues psychologically and the traumas suffered- it is a recent phenomenon that complete societies from certain demographics have fallen prey to this bug - I wonder what it portends about the state of affairs.

Disclaimer - I am not absolving or incriminating anyone. It bears to keep in mind that the next stage of evolution from delusion is often mania. The Whole world must do it's part to contribute in the healing process and reverse this sad decay for which it is we who are responsible.

The world will be just fine, every country for itself, as always.