Vietnam Defence Forum

[Viet]

On October 24, The Coast Guard Command signed a contract with Hong Ha Shipbuilding Company under the General Department of Defence Industry for building 4 more high-speed patrol boats TT-400 (the number 6,7,8,9 ).

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nice, that brings the total number of gunships to 8.

The dozen comes from the current program of 8 plus the option for an extra 4.
When they say 6 under construction, I think they mean the total program of building 6 under license.
I used to have these doubts also and a Navy officer clarified things for me.

Actually, I wish you would be right because that means more ships, but according to the navy people is just 8 total now.

It could also be possible that the navy already decided to do the option for the other 4 and now they are already working on a program of 12; in that case we would be talking about the same thing.

I just check the news again. you are right. in 2006 Vietnam signed $1b contract with Russia for 8 Molniya warships: 2 built by Russia, 6 by Vietnam shipyard Ba Son. some months ago, I read from a source Vietnam Navy is very satisfied with the performance of the warship and intends to have 10 more. unclear if the contract is signed yet.

 

[Viet]

Stop dreaming about frigates and destroyers, you can't afford them. Indian Talwar frigates cost over $500 million each. A 1.5t corvette armed with barak SAMs and sonar is good enough for you.

he he he...it is not only me who dreams of destroyers. Vietnam dreams of having a blue water navy in 2030. How can we realize such dream without heavy frigates and destroyers? impossible.

we have 2 Gepard frigates now, and 4 in 2017. I believe our economy generates cash surplus enough that we can afford more frigates and begin to build up a destroyer fleet. we have to catch up with the chinese. if we lost the war against them, everything would be too late and worthless. you begin to sound like many other chinese posters here.

 

[Viet]

some pics of Air defence unit

ZSU-23-4 radar guided anti-aircraft guns

37mm air defense artillery

57mm air defense artillery

 

[William Hung]

Its intriguing to me how they fit 24 Barak 1 missiles into a small ship, I'll have to research into it.
The Barak 1 missile is 17 cm in diameter while the both the MICA and SPYDER are 16 cm in diameter, so the VLS systems of all those should be of similar space. A typical Mica system is 12 missiles, but the system can handle 16 and they can be subdivided into small 6 cells VLS systems that can be located in different locations in the ship, its quite space efficient.

A basic Barak 1 system with an 8 cell VLS is $24 million, not very cheap.

I definitely agree with you that is nice to have 24 SAM missiles as opposite to 12, etc. I think that VN ships will have to operate in a very dense missile environment where saturation attacks would be typical.

I think it's the length of the missiles that restrict how many VLS cells you can install on a ship. On a small ship, the longer missiles can only be installed along the center area of the hull where the hull depth is deepest. With shorter missiles, you're more free to install the VLS on any area of the hull.

What's the cost for a 12 cells MICA VL system?

he he he...it is not only me who dreams of destroyers. Vietnam dreams of having a blue water navy in 2030. How can we realize such dream without heavy frigates and destroyers? impossible.

you begin to sound like many other chinese posters here.

Ask @TaiShang, he can confirm I am not a Chinese.

 

[Viet]

Air defence unit with S-300PMU-1

 

[Viet]

Ask @TaiShang, he can confirm I am not a Chinese.

the stop talking like a chinese. if we followed their advice it is worthless for vietnam to have an army at all, because we have no chance against them.

 

[Carlosa]

I think it's the length of the missiles that restrict how many VLS cells you can install on a ship. On a small ship, the longer missiles can only be installed along the center area of the hull where the hull depth is deepest. With shorter missiles, you're more free to install the VLS on any area of the hull.

What's the cost for a 12 cells MICA VL system?.

I was thinking the same thing, there is a 1 meter difference between the Barak 1 and Mica (or Spyder).
Other than that, I don't see any other difference.

I don't know the whole cost of the Mica VL, but its probably not much other than the cost of the VLS because the VLS and the missiles is all there is, no equipment racks, consoles or anything. The VLS interfaces directly to the CMS of the ship and that's it. But the thing is, the cost is in the missiles, just the standard load of 12 missiles is $36 million already. Pretty stiff.

 

[Carlosa]

nice, that brings the total number of gunships to 8.


I just check the news again. you are right. in 2006 Vietnam signed $1b contract with Russia for 8 Molniya warships: 2 built by Russia, 6 by Vietnam shipyard Ba Son. some months ago, I read from a source Vietnam Navy is very satisfied with the performance of the warship and intends to have 10 more. unclear if the contract is signed yet.

All there is is the first batch of 8 and the second batch of 4 for a total of 12.

I don't believe the rumors for another 10, all that comes from a Russian official that said that VN was going to order another 10 Molniyas and had 4 Gepards on order (instead of 2). All the VN articles get the story from that. My gut feeling when I read that was that I didn't make sense, too many Molniyas and I knew the navy wants to switch to a larger corvette that is better equipped. The Molniyas have no stealth at all and they are very vulnerable.

I checked with my source in the navy and I was told that indeed it didn't make any sense. The Russial official got all the numbers confused, the 10 Molniyas are the 10 building under license in the 2 batches and the 4 Gepards are the 2 on order and the 2 on commission.

Going back to the 12 Molniyas, since your article says that there are 6 under construction and that the program ends in 2017, that makes me think that VN already approved the second batch of 4 (without announcement as usual) and they already started to work on them, otherwise 2017 makes no sense because I know that the program of 8 ends around the middle of next year, so this means that it will be 12 for sure.

Yesterday Alvin confirmed that the navy is developing the follow on to the Molniya, so that confirms everything and it makes total sense.

nice, that brings the total number of gunships to 8.

No, the total number is 9, as the article says, hulls numbers 6,7,8 and 9.

Air defence unit with S-300PMU-1

They are already upgraded to PMU-2 now.

 

[Viet]

Hanoi, October 27: meeting with Chinese State Councilor Yang Jiechi
besides of usual bla bla (Vietnam/China brotherhood), only one thing is remarkable: both parties have agreed to accelerate negotiations on the demarcation of waters off the Gulf of Tonkin. No word about when China will lift the travel warning against Vietnam.

India, Bodhgaya city October 27: Prime Minister Nguyen, his spouse and delegation arrived India. Let see how India leadership means serious with the committments of helping Vietnam in the dispute. the visit of immense strategic importance for both countries.

 

[Viet]

All there is is the first batch of 8 and the second batch of 4 for a total of 12.

I don't believe the rumors for another 10, all that comes from a Russian official that said that VN was going to order another 10 Molniyas and had 4 Gepards on order (instead of 2). All the VN articles get the story from that. My gut feeling when I read that was that I didn't make sense, too many Molniyas and I knew the navy wants to switch to a larger corvette that is better equipped. The Molniyas have no stealth at all and they are very vulnerable.

I checked with my source in the navy and I was told that indeed it didn't make any sense. The Russial official got all the numbers confused, the 10 Molniyas are the 10 building under license in the 2 batches and the 4 Gepards are the 2 on order and the 2 on commission.

Going back to the 12 Molniyas, since your article says that there are 6 under construction and that the program ends in 2017, that makes me think that VN already approved the second batch of 4 (without announcement as usual) and they already started to work on them, otherwise 2017 makes no sense because I know that the program of 8 ends around the middle of next year, so this means that it will be 12 for sure.

Yesterday Alvin confirmed that the navy is developing the follow on to the Molniya, so that confirms everything and it makes total sense.

yes, it seems the navy places a big bet on small and medium vessels. when will they think of big warships?

No, the total number is 9, as the article says, hulls numbers 6,7,8 and 9.

do we have 4 or 5 in service? I assume 4.
UPDATE: Vietnam reveals fourth TT400TP patrol vessel - IHS Jane's 360

They are already upgraded to PMU-2 now.

you are right.

 

[Viet]

Ship guns (AK series), installed on Gepard, Molyina, BPS-500, Turya, Svetlyak, TT400TP class

 

[Carlosa]

he he he...it is not only me who dreams of destroyers. Vietnam dreams of having a blue water navy in 2030. How can we realize such dream without heavy frigates and destroyers? impossible.

we have 2 Gepard frigates now, and 4 in 2017. I believe our economy generates cash surplus enough that we can afford more frigates and begin to build up a destroyer fleet. we have to catch up with the chinese. if we lost the war against them, everything would be too late and worthless. you begin to sound like many other chinese posters here.

Everything in steps bro, need to build the littoral navy before going into the blue water navy and also need to set up the surveillance and stand off targeting system as well as the C3ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) in order to properly use the blue water navy. Need to also beef up the air force further in order to provide better cover for the navy.

When all the pieces are in place and the country's GDP grow enough, then that will be the time for destroyers, etc. Patience is a virtue bro.

do we have 4 or 5 in service? I assume 4.
UPDATE: Vietnam reveals fourth TT400TP patrol vessel - IHS Jane's 360
.

4 in service, 1 under construction and now 4 in the new order, total is 9, that's why they gave those hull numbers.

We are talking TT-400 for the coast guard, don't confuse them with the TT-400TP for the navy.

 

[Zeenar]

Hơ hơ, tự nhiên có 2 cái nick mới: 1 cái treo cờ Pak, 1 anh nữa thì khoe là đang tại ngũ ở cái lữ abc nào đó ... ai chui vào đây diễn trò thế !?

P/S: sorry, I want to speak Vietnamese with my fellow ...

Người ta là nick mới nhưng có hiểu biết chứ không như ai đó chá dám mở miệng lúc đang tranh cãi rồi đợi nguội mới dám đâm chọt sau lựng

Since we still have large numbers of M48 in reserve after the Vietnam War, we should ask Israelis to sign a contract to upgrade our M48s to Magach 5 standard if we have the money and we might as well continue to find a better modernization program for the T-54/55s too.

 

[William Hung]

I was thinking the same thing, there is a 1 meter difference between the Barak 1 and Mica (or Spyder).
Other than that, I don't see any other difference.

Look at this Saar 4.5 boat. It's only 500tons but carries 32 barak-1 SAMs (4x 8cells VLS module at the back):

Each VLS modules are tiny. Notice how they can be installed right at the edge of the stern (longer missiles cannot be this close to the edge of a small boat) :

I don't know the whole cost of the Mica VL, but its probably not much other than the cost of the VLS because the VLS and the missiles is all there is, no equipment racks, consoles or anything. The VLS interfaces directly to the CMS of the ship and that's it. But the thing is, the cost is in the missiles, just the standard load of 12 missiles is $36 million already. Pretty stiff.

$3 million for 1 MICA missile really? the Aster 15 sold to the UK and Italian was around $1.2 million each. I saw a documentary on the ESSM and it said they cost around $1mil as well. You might as well wait for the newer MBDA Sea Ceptor (CAMM). They supposedly have similar performances to the Aster 15 but designed to be smaller and cheaper.

India just sealed a contract to buy +200 barak-1 missiles at $550,000 each.

Remember for any SAM system, you have to buy plenty of missiles to stock up. So if the VPA buys 30 MICAs, that would cost about $90million already. 30 barak-1 would only cost around $17million. That's why I said for a small corvette under 1.5ton which probably cost less than $150million, I would prefer a cheaper system like the Barak-1.

 

[Carlosa]

Người ta là nick mới nhưng có hiểu biết chứ không như ai đó chá dám mở miệng lúc đang tranh cãi rồi đợi nguội mới dám đâm chọt sau lựng

Since we still have large numbers of M48 in reserve after the Vietnam War, we should ask Israelis to sign a contract to upgrade our M48s to Magach 6/7 standard if we have the money and we might as well continue to find a better modernization program for the T-54/55s too.

Magach 6/7 standard is only for the M-60 tank. Magach 5 would be the one for the M-48.

The T-54/55 can still be put to good use, but in my opinion, the Achilles heel of the Israeli T-55M3 upgrade program for those tanks is that it uses the old british L-7 gun of 105 mm. I feel it needs to be a 125 mm gun; there are other upgrades that use the 125 mm in the T-54/55.

Look at this Saar 4.5 boat. It's only 500tons but carries 32 barak-1 SAMs (4x 8cells VLS module at the back):

Each VLS modules are tiny. Notice how they can be installed right at the edge of the stern (longer missiles cannot be this close to the edge of a small boat) :

$3 million for 1 MICA missile really? the Aster 15 sold to the UK and Italian was around $1.2 million each. I saw a documentary on the ESSM and it said they cost around $1mil as well. You might as well wait for the newer MBDA Sea Ceptor (CAMM). They supposedly have similar performances to the Aster 15 but designed to be smaller and cheaper.

India just sealed a contract to buy +200 barak-1 missiles at $550,000 each.

Remember for any SAM system, you have to buy plenty of missiles to stock up. So if the VPA buys 30 MICAs, that would cost about $90million already. 30 barak-1 would only cost around $17million. That's why I said for a small corvette under 1.5ton which probably cost less than $150million, I would prefer a cheaper system like the Barak-1.

Holy pepperoni, looking at the location of those Barak 1 launchers, its definitely the short length of the missile that makes it possible to have so many VLS units.

Yes, Mica is 3 million and exocet is 5 million, crazy, but french stuff is very expensive.

In my opinion VN should it have ordered the Sigmas with KH-35 and Barak 8, that will save a lot of money.