Vietnam Defence Forum

[ice bomb]

yes, back then, the Mongol hordes conquered China, but failed in Vietnam.
you see that is the difference. We defeated the Mongols, while you became slaves.

Vietnam was a vassal to Yuan. Learn your history, kid. You must be real brainwashed by commie books.

 

[Carlosa]

yes, back then, the Mongol hordes conquered China, but failed in Vietnam.
you see that is the difference. We defeated the Mongols, while you became slaves.

Right on brother !!!!

 

[terranMarine]

Remember, I'm not Vietnamese, I don't have the emotional, nationalistic stuff that vietnamese and chinese people have. I have a position, but I try to be objective, most of you guys have your perceptions colored by nationalistic emotions and you don't see things objectively.

I'm telling you, war with Vietnam will not be a walk in the park, if you were to know and understand vietnamese people, you would understand that. These people have a hell of a fighting spirit, they don't give up, they are like a spring, the more you push it down, the stronger that it comes back up.

Warfare is not just counting tanks and planes, etc. Look at the Afghans, nobody has been able to defeat them, just ask the russians and americans. How many tanks, planes and helicopters does the Taliban have? You can invade them, but they'll keep fighting until they push you out. The Vietnamese will accept the total ruin of their country and economy as the price of victory. How about china? I don't think so? Vietnam got invaded multiple times, but in the end, they always prevail.

If we don't see things objectively then how come a Spanish person living in Vietnam repeating the rubbish the Vietnamese here have been spraying all the time? And the answer is no, they don't always prevail. Japan got defeated by America so Vietnam was liberated, after that the French wanted to control Vietnam again which failed. If they always prevail how come they were ruled by China for over a thousand years? Sorry my Spanish friend it is you who failed to understand that China knows its history with Vietnam. I'm not saying China won't get hurt in a war with Vietnam but if China was ever serious in the future Vietnam can say goodbye. Today there's only dispute in SCS with our Southern neighbor and not about border dispute so China does not need to go to war for that. The fact Vietnam does not dare shoot at our oil rig proofs they don't want to escalate to a war because they know it will be disastrous to them.

 

[Carlosa]

Vietnam was a vassal to Yuan. Learn your history, kid. You must be real brainwashed by commie books.

brainwashed by commie books? If there is a place where that really applies, that's China, major wholesale revision of historical facts going on in order to suit the needs of current government policy such as:

the mongolians are chinese, so actually china was never defeated by mongolia, it was just an internal power struggle;

Gengis Khan was chinese,

etc, etc and not even talk about the bs of the historical rights to the south china sea and the "discovery" of those islands by chinese when actually the polynesian-malay cultures extensively navigated those waters all the way to Taiwan BEFORE the chinese !!!

 

[Rechoice]

Vietnam was a vassal to Yuan. Learn your history, kid. You must be real brainwashed by commie books.

Yuan dynasty belong to Mongolian, they ruled Chinese bro.

 

[Carlosa]

If we don't see things objectively then how come a Spanish person living in Vietnam repeating the rubbish the Vietnamese here have been spraying all the time? And the answer is no, they don't always prevail. Japan got defeated by America so Vietnam was liberated, after that the French wanted to control Vietnam again which failed. If they always prevail how come they were ruled by China for over a thousand years? Sorry my Spanish friend it is you who failed to understand that China knows its history with Vietnam. I'm not saying China won't get hurt in a war with Vietnam but if China was ever serious in the future Vietnam can say goodbye. Today there's only dispute in SCS with our Southern neighbor and not about border dispute so China does not need to go to war for that. The fact Vietnam does not dare shoot at our oil rig proofs they don't want to escalate to a war because they know it will be disastrous to them.

We are talking in general terms, not trying to be super accurate here, and I'm talking about the recent period, not trying to go back thousands of years, but anyway, if after 1000 years of chinese domination, they got out, rather than becoming assimilated like Manchuria, I would say that they prevailed. They were under Japanese occupation and they were also fighting the Japanese, how that would have ended up long term we don't know. The point is, they fight until they prevail whatever long it takes.

I don't think I'm talking rubbish here, I think at least most of my posts are quite factual, but of course we have different opinions.

You guys are overconfident and you are overreaching and you are doing precisely what the americans need. Vietnam did the right thing by not escalating over the oil rig, but don't misunderstand that as weakness or fear and keep pushing because in the end they will fight no matter what the consequences and most likely other parties will also step in. China is on a collision course with too many powers at the same time and that usually ends up pretty bad.

 

[ice bomb]

brainwashed by commie books? If there is a place where that really applies, that's China, major wholesale revision of historical facts going on in order to suit the needs of current government policy such as:

the mongolians are chinese, so actually china was never defeated by mongolia, it was just an internal power struggle;

Gengis Khan was chinese,

etc, etc and not even talk about the bs of the historical rights to the south china sea and the "discovery" of those islands by chinese when actually the polynesian-malay cultures extensively navigated those waters, including Taiwan BEFORE the chinese !!!

..............and what exactly are we disagree again? You may learn to read my post carefully.
I find it hard to digest your post when you are only making accuzations without proof.

Yuan dynasty belong to Mongolian, they ruled Chinese bro.

What does that got to do with my post? You have trouble understanding basic english?

 

[BoQ77]

Mongol Yuan was defeated three times, and Tran dynasty killed a lot of Mongols and Chinese as Yuan stroops and generals.

No unrest in China by Han under Yuan rule ? If yes, share me then ?

 

[Carlosa]

..............and what exactly are we disagree again? You may learn to read my post carefully.
I find it hard to digest your post when you are only making accuzations without proof.

My main point again is: china is going in the wrong direction, a policy of confrontation and attempt to control and dominate will only create enemies and will not bring the desired results. China would have much more to gain by using its power for the benefit of all in the region, but I guess old habits die hard. Well, we'll see how the game plays out.

 

[Rechoice]

What does that got to do with my post? You have trouble understanding basic english?

Just reminder you that china was in worser situation when china was conquered by Mongolian,

 

[Viet]

Vietnam was a vassal to Yuan. Learn your history, kid. You must be real brainwashed by commie books.

the Mongol hordes conquered Han China, took your women and made men to slaves.
that is the fact. Yes, we paid tribues to the Mongols. It is much better than being slaves, isn´t it?

here is the figure of Trần Hưng Đạo, who led the Dai Viet army and crushed the Mongolians in the 13 century.

Why not US transfer their 400 A-10s to Vietnam, Laos and other areas where they can easily launch an attack over China.

...says the best friend of China? nice idea. what we need now is to convince Uncle Sam.

 

[Viet]

a new order for Damen’s Song Cam shipyard in Haiphong City: a Australian aviation training ship (ATS) on the basis of OPV 2400 model, 90-metre, 2400-tonne, top speed of 23 knots, crew of 60 people, can carry a heli. The vessel will be delivered in 2017.

Aussies ship to be built in Vietnam in major contract blow | News.com.au

 

[Viet]

handover a new fishery surveillance vessel, coded KN-782

 

[Viet]

that news is not necessarily correct for this defence section, however I think this type of vessel may be suitable for defence purposes, too as the ships are made by composite materials. the result is ships are lighter than steel made ones.

about 200 composite tuna fishing ships will be built, funded by Japan-based company Yanmar Co.

In any cases It is another step forward to strengthen the ship building industry.

 

[Genesis]

I think you don't understand that a country defending itself doesn't have to be as powerful as the attacking country in order to be successful. Vietnam already demonstrated that to USA and France in the past.

In ground warfare for example, it is a typical rule that the attacking forces need to be 3 to 5 times stronger than the defending forces in order to be successful. China has a much bigger army, but it is deployed in many fronts, it can't put all is resources in just one border.

Obviously china has the most advantage in a naval and air war, but there is still a price to pay.

Vietnam is not intimidating to china, but is not a pushover either. Its up to china to decide if Vietnam has enough power of deterrence or not, but I would suggest that they don't miscalculate as the americans did.

As Ho Chi Minh once said after the french defeat: "They lost because they don't understand our history". Does china understand Vietnam's history?

Air and Sea battle is about training and equipments, both of which we have better. You can't really hit us if we out range you by 50 km. Your missile will stop before it reaches us and the fact our radar is better is also for all to see.


But that's not the point.

Let me ask you one thing, why was Vietnam colonized by the French? Because they became civilized and this a heavy price cannot be paid.

Just like now, they are no longer peasant farmers and other bums that will wait to be slaughtered.

Someone said if I understand Vietnam, I understand Vietnam too much, because you are just like Chinese, but from a smaller and weaker state.

We may have sacrificed 20 million during WW2 and then more millions in the civil war, even 300,000 thousand during Korea and thousands during 1979, but we cannot lose that many people again, anything above 500 will raise eyebrows, maybe even 500 or less.


The past can be an indication, ONLY if all the variables remain the same. It didn't.


Also Vietnam is a push over, Vietnam hasn't reform the army to fit modern warfare, I know because I follow its exercises, but China has, within 2020, China will complete major reforms, from joint chiefs, to reduced regions, better integration, to more responsibility to field officers and NCOs, and much more.

Until Vietnam is a modern army, it is easily defeated, just look at Chinese defense, I got a thread there about China's recent exercises and how newly modeled army easily defeated old, but the best equipped armies, and Vietnam isn't better equipped, not by a long shot.