Vietnam Defence Forum

[Viet]

Air and Sea battle is about training and equipments, both of which we have better. You can't really hit us if we out range you by 50 km. Your missile will stop before it reaches us and the fact our radar is better is also for all to see.


But that's not the point.

Let me ask you one thing, why was Vietnam colonized by the French? Because they became civilized and this a heavy price cannot be paid.

Just like now, they are no longer peasant farmers and other bums that will wait to be slaughtered.

Someone said if I understand Vietnam, I understand Vietnam too much, because you are just like Chinese, but from a smaller and weaker state.

We may have sacrificed 20 million during WW2 and then more millions in the civil war, even 300,000 thousand during Korea and thousands during 1979, but we cannot lose that many people again, anything above 500 will raise eyebrows, maybe even 500 or less.


The past can be an indication, ONLY if all the variables remain the same. It didn't.


Also Vietnam is a push over, Vietnam hasn't reform the army to fit modern warfare, I know because I follow its exercises, but China has, within 2020, China will complete major reforms, from joint chiefs, to reduced regions, better integration, to more responsibility to field officers and NCOs, and much more.

Until Vietnam is a modern army, it is easily defeated, just look at Chinese defense, I got a thread there about China's recent exercises and how newly modeled army easily defeated old, but the best equipped armies, and Vietnam isn't better equipped, not by a long shot.

Aaaaahhhh...and what is your conclusion?

 

[Viet]

brainwashed by commie books? If there is a place where that really applies, that's China, major wholesale revision of historical facts going on in order to suit the needs of current government policy such as:

the mongolians are chinese, so actually china was never defeated by mongolia, it was just an internal power struggle;

Gengis Khan was chinese,

etc, etc and not even talk about the bs of the historical rights to the south china sea and the "discovery" of those islands by chinese when actually the polynesian-malay cultures extensively navigated those waters all the way to Taiwan BEFORE the chinese !!!

If hypothetically in one day the Indians successfully conquered China, the Chinese would claim India was the land of their forefathers and Indian ocean belongs to China since ancient time.

Bro, talking to Chinese is like talking against the wall. Though they have a rich civilization, but many of them are arrogant and aggressive, hyper nationalistic and rude. moreover they lack of the basic understanding what right what wrong.

 

[Carlosa]

Air and Sea battle is about training and equipments, both of which we have better. You can't really hit us if we out range you by 50 km. Your missile will stop before it reaches us and the fact our radar is better is also for all to see.


But that's not the point.

Let me ask you one thing, why was Vietnam colonized by the French? Because they became civilized and this a heavy price cannot be paid.

Just like now, they are no longer peasant farmers and other bums that will wait to be slaughtered.

Someone said if I understand Vietnam, I understand Vietnam too much, because you are just like Chinese, but from a smaller and weaker state.

We may have sacrificed 20 million during WW2 and then more millions in the civil war, even 300,000 thousand during Korea and thousands during 1979, but we cannot lose that many people again, anything above 500 will raise eyebrows, maybe even 500 or less.


The past can be an indication, ONLY if all the variables remain the same. It didn't.


Also Vietnam is a push over, Vietnam hasn't reform the army to fit modern warfare, I know because I follow its exercises, but China has, within 2020, China will complete major reforms, from joint chiefs, to reduced regions, better integration, to more responsibility to field officers and NCOs, and much more.

Until Vietnam is a modern army, it is easily defeated, just look at Chinese defense, I got a thread there about China's recent exercises and how newly modeled army easily defeated old, but the best equipped armies, and Vietnam isn't better equipped, not by a long shot.

I could simply say: Underestimate Vietnam at your own peril: but I'll add:

You got the facts wrong, china has superior assets in general and a lot more money to spend in defense, but Vietnam has been preparing quite a bit and preparing for future threats as well, just one example: Vietnam has been setting up a very sophisticated radar network, with both passive and active radars dedicated to detect stealth aircraft as preparation to when china deploys the J-20.

Vietnam has been reforming quite a lot contrary what you stated, the thing is, and this is a key point, the viet army is extremely secretive and they are extremely good at enforcing that, you are not going to see a leaked picture of anything that they don't want to be seen. Much of the new equipment that has been deployed in the last few years remains as "unconfirmed" and without official records until a supplier makes a leak by mistake such as recently a Russian company saying that Vietnam bought the Bal-E coastal missile defense system. Vietnam is already deploying Iskander ballistic missiles (that are better than anything that China has) and sophisticated air defense systems, etc, etc. If you really know about the vietnamese military, then you should know that you are not going to learn much about then by going to wikipedia, etc.

Air and sea, particularly sea is where Vietnam is weakest, they are working in that direction but it does take time, anyway, I tell you again, Vietnam is not a pushover and china will do well not to find that out the hard way.

Its true that chinese and vietnamese are very similar, but vietnamese are a lot nicer that chinese by a long shot. I know both very well.

 

[Carlosa]

If hypothetically in one day the Indians successfully conquered China, the Chinese would claim India was the land of their forefathers and Indian ocean belongs to China since ancient time.

Bro, talking to Chinese is like talking against the wall. Though they have a rich civilization, but many of them are arrogant and aggressive, hyper nationalistic and rude. moreover they lack of the basic understanding what right what wrong.

You got that right !!!

Didn't you hear about the moon? The chinese were the first to do close up observation and cartography of the moon with telescopic instruments since ancient times, therefore, the moon has been an integral part of china since ancient times and china has undisputable rights to the moon since they were the first to "discover" and map the moon in ancient times.

Rich civilization in ancient times, now.............

Arrogant, agressive and rude? Tell me about it, I'm in the middle of them right now, I've been coming extensibly to china for the last 12 years, some years spending up to half the time there.

Another key feature is "untrustworthy"; In the 12 years that I've been doing business with them, I still have to find one whose word can be trusted. I always had good experiences dealing with Taiwanese people that do business in china, but mainland chinese, you just can't trust them, period! Taiwanese feel the same way about them.

People in the main coastal cities of china are becoming a lot more civilized than the rest of china, but still, it will take 2 more generations until mainland chinese people approach the level of Taiwanese people today.

To be fair, they have the good, the bad and everything in between like in all countries, but they have a definitely much higher share of the bad than many other countries. I've travelled to many countries and I lived in a few, but sorry to say, china is the less desirable of all of them (just my personal opinion). Every time I have to go there is like "oh God, have to go to china again"..........

 

[ComradeNam]

If you trust Chinese you are doom yourself like Tibetan self immolation in the hope to wake up their nationalism which is being slowing absorb. Vietnam survive bcause it learnt not to trust Chinese. For every generation of Vietnam goes to war with China though both countries share culture similarity. We survive because we know them well, we walk in their gut. they can't deceive us.

 

[Carlosa]

If you trust Chinese you are doom yourself like Tibetan self immolation in the hope to wake up their nationalism which is being slowing absorb. Vietnam survive bcause it learnt not to trust Chinese. For every generation of Vietnam goes to war with China though both countries share culture similarity. We survive because we know them well, we walk in their gut. they can't deceive us.

Words of wisdom !!!

 

[ComradeNam]

I could simply say: Underestimate Vietnam at your own peril: but I'll add:

You got the facts wrong, china has superior assets in general and a lot more money to spend in defense, but Vietnam has been preparing quite a bit and preparing for future threats as well, just one example: Vietnam has been setting up a very sophisticated radar network, with both passive and active radars dedicated to detect stealth aircraft as preparation to when china deploys the J-20.

Air and sea, particularly sea is where Vietnam is weakest, they are working in that direction but it does take time, anyway, I tell you again, Vietnam is not a pushover and china will do well not to find that out the hard way.

Its true that chinese and vietnamese are very similar, but vietnamese are a lot nicer that chinese by a long shot. I know both very well.

The Chinese here or on other internet sites, they can only talk to make them feel better of themselves. The reality is they can do nothing to Vietnam. How many time Vietnam battle with them? More than 10 since ancient and we always came out on top. Not only we beat them, we beat their boss the Qing Manchus and the Mongol Yuan.

The Chinese have not won a single major battle in hundred years. while we brought the entire France empire to collapse with the battle of Dien Bien Phu which triggered France's colonies to fight for independent, we discouraged the American expand their influence in Asia. We faced two front war, South west battle to get rid of Chinese pawn Khmer Rouge, and Northern front against the Chinese massive invasion, and we still came out on top.

The Chinese on here think by showing some copy cat weapons can really scare us? Only in their dream Vietnamese scare of Chinese. Just look at the Haiyan rig and how we response to that move, just make Vietnamese more angry and aggressive toward the Chinese.

Le Duan and the Break with China

In the wake of WWII, everyone held the
international gendarme to be American imperialism. They could take over and bully all of the world. Everyone, including the big powers, were afraid of the US. It was only Vietnam that was not afraid of the US.

I understand this matter for my line of work has taught me it. The first person to fear [the Americans] was Mao Zedong. He told me, that is, the Vietnamese and Lao, that: “You must immediately turn over the two liberated provinces of Laos to the [Vientiane] [government]. If you do not do so, then the US will use it as a pretext to launch an attack. That is a great danger.” As for Vietnam, we said: “We have to fight the Americans in order to liberate southern Vietnam.” He [Mao] said: “You cannot do that. southern Vietnam must lie in wait for a long period, for one lifetime, 5-10 or even 20 lifetimes from now. You cannot fight the Americans. Fighting the US is dangerous”. Mao Zedong was scared of the US to that extent.

But Vietnam was not scared. Vietnam went ahead and fought. If Vietnam had not fought the US, then southern Vietnam would not have been liberated. A country which is not yet liberated will remain a dependent one. No one is independent if only one-half of the country is free. It was not until 1975 that our country finally achieved its full independence. With independence would come freedom. Freedom should be freedom for the whole of the Vietnamese nation.

I have to repeat it like that, for before China had sent advisers to us [some of our Vietnamese] brothers did not understand. They thought the [Chinese] were very capable. But they are not so skilled, and thus we did not follow [the Chinese advice]. In 1952, I left northern Vietnam for China, because I was sick and needed treatment. This was my first time abroad. I put questions to them [the Chinese] and saw many very strange things. There were areas [which had been] occupied by Japanese troops, each with a population of 50 million people, but which had not [had] a single guerrilla fighter.

When I returned from China, I met Uncle [Ho]. He asked me:
- —This was your first time to go abroad, isn’t that right?
- —Yes, I went abroad for the first time.
—- What did you see?
- —I saw two things: Vietnam is very brave and they [the Chinese] are not brave at all.

 

[Viet]

You got that right !!!

Didn't you hear about the moon? The chinese were the first to do close up observation and cartography of the moon with telescopic instruments since ancient times, therefore, the moon has been an integral part of china since ancient times and china has undisputable rights to the moon since they were the first to "discover" and map the moon in ancient times.

Rich civilization in ancient times, now.............

Arrogant, agressive and rude? Tell me about it, I'm in the middle of them right now, I've been coming extensibly to china for the last 12 years, some years spending up to half the time there.

Another key feature is "untrustworthy"; In the 12 years that I've been doing business with them, I still have to find one whose word can be trusted. I always had good experiences dealing with Taiwanese people that do business in china, but mainland chinese, you just can't trust them, period! Taiwanese feel the same way about them.

People in the main coastal cities of china are becoming a lot more civilized than the rest of china, but still, it will take 2 more generations until mainland chinese people approach the level of Taiwanese people today.

To be fair, they have the good, the bad and everything in between like in all countries, but they have a definitely much higher share of the bad than many other countries. I've travelled to many countries and I lived in a few, but sorry to say, china is the less desirable of all of them (just my personal opinion). Every time I have to go there is like "oh God, have to go to china again"..........

the people of Taiwan are quite different to mainland Chinese.
Taiwanese are nice, have a good behaviour and actually present the good side of China.

 

[Viet]

Correct, the same can be said of Singaporean chinese and some others.

Chinese are not the way they are just because they are chinese. People are a byproduct of their environment and as such, mainland chinese reflect the social environment that they were in for the last 100 years or more, which was not a very nice one, a lot of hardships, war and trying to survive. Over time that will change and hopefully they'll get to a level like the Taiwanese or Singaporeans of today, but it will take a while and in the meantime have to put up with them.....

Yes, look at Singapore Chinese. I find they are the best among Chinese descent.

 

[Grand Historian]

Again, who is talking about ROC? Check mainland china recent history books.

Doesn't matter what the average chinese TODAY thinks about Gengis Khan, that doesn't change the current actions of the chinese state and the educational authorities. The revision of history starts now, give it enough years of that and enough brainwashing and the chinese kids of tomorrow will totally believe that Gengis Khan is chinese the same ways that chinese kids today believe that James Shoal is the southernmost part of china and has always been, because that's what they are taught in school.

Again provide the source,you claimed that mainland chinese history books claim Genghis Khan as their own yet you don't even show any texts.

Its not taught in Chinese schools I've even asked my relatives in mainland China,keep on spewing out your propaganda that PRC brainwashes their children.

 

[ice bomb]

You know so little about china that is just laughable kid. When was the last time you talked to chinese businessmen about the quality of chinese workers? If you bother to ask them, they'll tell you that they suck, specially the young workers, they are useless, they are spoiled brats that are not good for anything. Go ahead, go to some business forum in china and ask, maybe you'll learn something.

Last time I checked China was still the largest trade nation. If the "quality" of chinese workers sucks then one wonder the quality of the workers in your country.....
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

I just told you I have nothing against chinese just because they are chinese, I almost marry a chinese once, like I said, I treat individuals as individuals, doesn't matter what nationality, race or religion they have. You are letting your pride get the best of you kid. I'm starting to think that you are a chinese fundamentalist.

That is not what you said:
Quote:
When I talk about china and chinese people in general, at that point I talk in general terms since all nationalities have typical features. You don't like what I think about them when I talk in general terms, well, sorry, I understand that reality often hurts.

If you still dont realize how stupid you are, then you really need some help.....

 

[Grand Historian]

Sorry, but you are getting incoherent, you need to relax and maybe tomorrow with a calm mind, read everything again, because you are not getting it and we are wasting valuable forum space, I think people want to read about military issues in these pages, not about this thing between you and me. Take a break kid.

Nothing will justify your racism and your blatant trolling.

@Hu Songshan I ask that you punish us both for off topic and ad hominems.

 

[Carlosa]

I think you need to read the definition of discrimination.

Its almost 1 am in china. Time to sleep. Good bye kid.

 

[Aepsilons]

Gentlemen, let's get back to Viet Nam military review and discourse. Thanks.

 

[Carlosa]

Gentlemen, let's get back to Viet Nam military review and discourse. Thanks.

Thank you for your graceful advise and calm words of wisdom, an attitude worthy of a Samurai!