US, UK, Russia, Poland, Turkey, Saudi Arabia are approaching PAF for experience

[Ultima Thule]

Oh dear.

List of TOP 500 supercomputers in the world: https://www.top500.org/list/2019/06/?page=1

Not a single Russian-made or even Russian-owned supercomputer in the list.

Supercomputers are instrumental in the R&D of advanced technologies with powerful simulations far beyond the capacity of personal computers.

Russia's fastest supercomputer is Lomonosov-2. It contain Intel Xeon E5-2697v3 14-core and Gold 6126 12-core CPUs, along with Nvidia K40 and P100 GPU nodes, and 3 PB of system memory.

"From a processor perspective, Intel continues to dominate the TOP500 list, with the company’s chips appearing in 95.6 percent of all systems. IBM Power CPUs are in seven systems, followed by AMD processors, which are present in three systems. A single supercomputer on the list, Astra, is powered by Arm processors.

A total of 133 systems on the TOP500 list employ accelerator or coprocessor technology, down slightly from 138 six months ago. Of these, 125 systems use NVIDIA GPUs. About half of those (62) using the latest Volta-generation processors, with the remainder (60) based on Pascal and Kepler technology."

Link: https://www.top500.org/news/top500-becomes-a-petaflop-club-for-supercomputers/

So what is the global footprint of much hyped Russian superduper semiconductor industry? Tell me about it.

There are solid reasons as to WHY Sukhoi was not able to produce anything on par with F-22A Raptor in a span of over 2 decades and came up far short in Su-57 which did not impress even Indians who are in love with Russian products otherwise.

Oh what ever you slave this is civilian tech not military tech which is more precise and powerful than civilian tech go fart somewhere else you slave

 

[LeGenD]

Oh what ever you slave this is civilian tech not military tech which is more precise and powerful than civilian tech go fart somewhere else you slave

Oh STFU you numbskull ignorant troll.

You do not even understand the purpose of supercomputers and the role of various universities and R&D centers in the matters of defense worldwide.

@The Eagle
@jaibi

Need to check on this member - he is only good for trolling and posting rubbish.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Oh STFU you numbskull ignorant troll.

You do not even understand the purpose of supercomputers and the role of various universities and R&D centers in the matters of defense worldwide.

@The Eagle
@jaibi

Need to check on this member - he is only good for trolling and posting rubbish.

from what I see you are the one who hijack and ruined this thread ..

 

[aliyusuf]

Yes, but how many countries even had this much at the time? - should be the question.

Yes but these were the initial export versions and were a quite useless piece of crap sold to Iraq ... that had faulty radar and suspect BVR capability. A far cry from the MiG-29K. Certainly no match to fighters in NATO inventory.

 

[War Historian]

If your claim is true,
Then was it possible, PAF had shot down both air force jets in conflicts.
Like shooting Israeli jets in 1967 and 73 wars with zero lost on PAF pilots side and against russian in afghan war. We had shot down several Soviet and afghan jets with soviet pilots with zero loss on PAF side.

I think Pakistan has better pilots than India,

But not better than US, Russia and Israel

 

[Smarana Mitra]

So everything in Iraqi hands was OLD and JUNK back in 1991? What kind of logic is this?

France does not make and sell junk for sure. And MiG-29K was as big of a name in 1991 as Su-35S is today.

Iraq had a very good military force back in 1991 - among the finest of the time. Iraq was WEAK only in the naval front because of losses in WAR with Iran.

Iraq of 2003 was a mere shadow of its formerself on conventional warfare level with a heavy tilt towards Mujahideen model.

Everything with Iraq was imported which meant that there was huge limitations. Iraq didn't have air defence, did not have enough missiles and ammunition to fire from planes and didn't even have enough quantity of planes.

USA got bases in GCC and prepared for 7-8 months by bringing in huge quantity of supplies, all of which were manufactured in USA. Iraq on the other hand could do nothing as it had no manufacturing industry at all. So, regardless of whether Iraq was Battle hardened or not, it was technologically pathetic in 1991

 

[LeGenD]

from what I see you are the one who hijack and ruined this thread ..

I addressed some responses in flow of other responses in this thread. But a TROLL amongst us ruined the flow. Keep your accusations to yourself.

Yes but these were the initial export versions and were a quite useless piece of crap sold to Iraq ... that had faulty radar and suspect BVR capability. A far cry from the MiG-29K. Certainly no match to fighters in NATO inventory.

The F-16s at our disposal are also imported, and they have served us well since the 1980s.

Americans also offered M1 Abrams MBT to Pakistan Army (although COAS Zia-ul-Haq was interested), Zia's successor refused this offer and Pakistani evaluation report was negative (am I right?). Same M1 Abrams outranged and outgunned all types of Soviet and Chinese Tanks in use by Iraqi army in the battlefield in 1991.

Russian stuff having quality issues is not something new. Indian retired military officials were complaining about quality issues of Su-30 MKI as well, years before 27-02-19: https://www.defensenews.com/air/201...es-problems-despite-russian-spare-parts-deal/

Since when is imported perceived for lack of quality by default? So imported products including cars are all bad by default?

The bottom line is that Russian products are OVER-HYPED in public discourses.

Everything with Iraq was imported which meant that there was huge limitations. Iraq didn't have air defence, did not have enough missiles and ammunition to fire from planes and didn't even have enough quantity of planes.

USA got bases in GCC and prepared for 7-8 months by bringing in huge quantity of supplies, all of which were manufactured in USA. Iraq on the other hand could do nothing as it had no manufacturing industry at all. So, regardless of whether Iraq was Battle hardened or not, it was technologically pathetic in 1991

This is all rubbish.

Iraq had a formidable AA/AD infrastructure back in 1991 with a mix of French and Soviet AA/AD equipment guided by 500 radar systems in different locations in total - one of the best in the world at the time. In fact, just the city of Baghdad was better protected than any city in the WEST and also majority of cities in ASIA back then.

Thanks to WAR with Iran and Iraq receiving lot of foreign equipment in the process (including latest offerings), Iraq emerged as one of the most militarized countries back in 1990, and captured Kuwait in a span of just 2 hours (an event which motivated American military deployment in response afterwards). Kuwaiti military had modern Western equipment back then but was swiftly overwhelmed.

Coalition losses in the AIR in 1991 are all attributed to Iraqi AA/AD arrangements in the field.

This however: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-u...af-for-experience.656744/page-4#post-12147337

On one hand, many militaries around the world study Persian Gulf War (1991) at great lengths to draw valuable lessons and devise tactics, on the other hand there are some members of PDF with preconceived notions about American battlefield accomplishments (to cheapen them).

Since Iraq lost the war in 1991, pin the blame on equipment now - even the best of it. Nevermind battlefield tactics and innovations in conduct of warfare, and the surprises that Americans had in store for the entire world back then. Nevermind the vast battlefield experience of USA since its independence - they never defeated a well-equipped army before.

In fact, opening salvo came from a small team of special forces armed with helicopters with LO treatments and powerful EW capabilities to slip through enemy lines, and knocked out two powerful Iraqi OTH radar systems in the cover of darkness; this assault opened up a GAP in Iraqi radar coverage and hundreds of Coalition Iraqi combat aircraft slipped through this GAP to strike at military bases and positions across. The tactical brilliance of this move cannot be understated.

FYI: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/desert-storms-opening-shots-came-from-this-daring-helic-1753466057

US utilized similar tactics to assassinate some of the worst of scum in highly contested spaces since then. Foremost among these is Operation Neptune Spear in 2011.

So yes, victory in an all-out engagement scenario is never strictly contingent on the quality of equipment. Tactical brilliance is equally important measure.

PAF outgunned IAF on 27-02-19 with tactical brilliance, and not just on the basis of equipment (F-16s for instance).

 

[aliyusuf]

Since when is imported perceived for lack of quality by default? So imported products including cars are all bad by default?

Not by default. A practice followed by the Russians at the time ... of exporting substandard watered down versions of their military products. Due to which their hardware got a bad rep. A rep that they have not been able to shake till this day. Americans never followed that rule. If they didn't want a certain capability to reach a certain country through their military hardware sales ... they would be upfront about it.

 

[LeGenD]

Not by default. A practice followed by the Russians at the time ... of exporting substandard watered down versions of their military products. Due to which their hardware got a bad rep. A rep that they have not been able to shake till this day. Americans never followed that rule. If they didn't want a certain capability to reach a certain country through their military hardware sales ... they would be upfront about it.

Bro,

This is a misconception and blown out of proportion in Public discourse.

Military equipment that is EXPORTED to other countries is in accordance with its advertised specifications from any supplier - always. And there is standard procedure of evaluating it before induction. Back in the days when Iraq had a professional army, they followed this standard procedure for inducting weapon systems as well.

Every Soviet tanks had vulnerable spots including their ammo storage not being separate from crew positions. No Soviet tank had protection on the level of M1 Abrams which is HEAVY ARMOR and WEIGHT class.

Soviet tanks not only underperformed in Iraq, they underperformed in Afghanistan and also in Chechnya including their latest T-80 variants. Underperformed in the sense that they were rather easier to destroy even with an RPG type weapon. Persian Gulf War (1991) simply exposed these vulnerabilities in Soviet tanks to great lengths.

US-led coalition battlefield victory in 1991 was as much about tactical brilliance in terms of excecution as in the case of certain types of equipment - recheck my response to another member above.

Iraq had a battle-hardened well-equipped military force back in 1991 by any measure (navy being an exception) otherwise, and its defeat in the Persian Gulf War (1991) cannot be pinned on supposedly poor quality equipment. Same Iraqi armed forces humiliated Iranian military positions inside Iraq in 1988 (Battle of Forty Stars among others), and overwhelmed a relatively modern Kuwaiti military in a span of 2 hours in 1990. No wonder KSA was spooked.

 

[aliyusuf]

This is a misconception and blown out of proportion in Public discourse.

The misconception is not with public discourse as much as it seems to be an obsession for you to uphold what you believe in, that is my humble opinion. Since this is a trivial issue, there is no use delving further into discussion on it. We have a differing points of view, so lets agree to disagree.

 

[LeGenD]

The misconception is not with public discourse as much as it seems to be an obsession for you to uphold what you believe in, that is my humble opinion. Since this is a trivial issue, there is no use delving further into discussion on it. We have a differing points of view, so lets agree to disagree.

Continue to live in your bubble then.

Next time S-400 system fails to deliver in the battlefield, I will be awaiting your long list of excuses for it.

 

[aliyusuf]

Stick with your bubble then.

On the contrary, you seem to be nicely perched inside yours.

 

[LeGenD]

On the contrary, you seem to be nicely perched inside yours.

Don't be a troll. You have lost ground in this argument and unable to address points on merit anymore.

Next time S-400 system fails to deliver in the battlefield, I will be awaiting your long list of excuses for it.

 

[aliyusuf]

Don't be a troll. You have lost ground in this argument - own it.

Not at all, I can see the futility to continue in a sensible exchange with you. Be matured enough to part without stooping to name calling.

 

[LeGenD]

Not at all, I can see the futility to continue in a sensible exchange with you. Be matured enough to part without stooping to name calling.

Great going, bro.

When you are unable to address points on merit, you resort to trolling and blame others for not being mature in the exchange. Syndrome of self-delusion.

This thread have been a good chapter of exposing preconceived notions and misconceptions. I enjoyed popping some bubbles here.