US, UK, Russia, Poland, Turkey, Saudi Arabia are approaching PAF for experience

[Ultima Thule]

Contrary to popular belief, not much of the equipment was digitalized back then. Much of the equipment in American hands was also a mix of 1960s, 1970s and 1980s origin at the time.

Mirage F1 and MiG-29K in 1991 were akin to Rafale F3R and Su-35S today.

AH ONLY THEY HAVE (USA ) HAD F-4 OF 60S AND MAY BE USN HAD F-8 ON THEIR CARRIERS REST OF OF THEIR RELATIVELY NEW JETS (F-16/f-15), AND THEN THEIR (USAF) CONSIDER THEIR F-15/F-16 AKIN TO F-22/F-35 IN FIRST GULF WAR

 

[LeGenD]

i am not talking about US superiority or something like that PLEASE DO TELL ME THAT THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE AGAINST SUPERIOR OR EQUAL AIR FORCES

They have no peer in Air Force since the 1970s. Any other country have no choice but to draw a comparison with them with what they have as of late.

 

[Ultima Thule]

They have no peer in Air Force since the 1970s. Any other country have no choice but to draw a comparison with them with what they have as of late.

How about Russian/Chinese air forces they are quite comparable to USAF

 

[LeGenD]

AH ONLY THEY HAVE (USA ) HAD F-4 OF 60S AND MAY BE USN HAD F-8 ON THEIR CARRIERS REST OF OF THEIR RELATIVELY NEW JETS (F-16/f-15), AND THEN THEIR (USAF) CONSIDER THEIR F-15/F-16 AKIN TO F-22/F-35 IN FIRST GULF WAR

That is a misleading parallel.

F-14 ; F-15 ; F-16 ; and F-18 = all 4th generation class of 1970s origin. Russian MiG-29K was of the same class.

Similarly, much of the equipment in American hands in 1991 was a mix of 1960s, 1970s and 1980s origin across all spectrums (Air - Land - Sea).

Real breakthrough was in the spectrum of infiltrating techniques with introduction of LO class cruise missiles, helicopters and bombers in the mix - stuff that was largely unknown in public discourses back then.

Americans utilized those tools in conjunction with powerful EW assets to great effect in 1991 to disrupt Iraqi C&C infrastructure, energy sector, and activity in Iraqi military bases in the cover of darkness across the board. Iraqi military machine fell into disarray in the face of an unrecognized model of warfare because they were trained and equipped to fight a different kind of war - the war that was entrenched in Soviet psyche back then.

Iraqi Air Force could not operate in the manner it was intended to while subjected to precision strikes from cruise missiles and LO class bombers which could evade radar detection. Those brave Iraqi pilots who somehow managed to take the fight to Americans in the AIR, were up against odds they could not hope to contend with, individual merits of MiG-29K and Mirage F1 notwithstanding.

--- --- ---

F-22A and F-35 variants = entirely new class of warfare capabilities with mating of VLO, 4th generation warfighting concepts, and sensor fusion in the mix (intelligent machines). This is revolution in the making with no true analogue in history.

How about Russian/Chinese air forces they are quite comparable to USAF

No, they are not.

 

[Ultima Thule]

No they are not.

Why please explain in details

I am sorry but this is misleading parallel.

F-14 ; F-15 ; F-16 ; and F-18 = all 4th generation class of 1970s origin. Russian MiG-29K was of the same class.

Similarly, much of the equipment in American hands in 1991 was a mix of 1960s, 1970s and 1980s origin across all spectrums (Air - Land - Sea).

Real breakthrough was in the spectrum of infiltrating techniques with introduction of LO class cruise missiles, helicopters and bombers in the mix - stuff that was largely unknown in public discourses back then.

Americans utilized those tools to great effect in 1991 to disrupt Iraqi C&C infrastructure, energy sector, and activity in Iraqi military bases in the cover of darkness across the board. Iraqi military machine fell into disarray in the face of an unrecognized model of warfare because they were trained and equipped to fight a different kind of war - the war that was entrenched in Soviet psyche back then.

Iraqi Air Force could not operate in the manner it was intended to while subjected to precision strikes from cruise missiles and LO class bombers which could evade radar detection. Those brave Iraqi pilots who somehow managed to take the fight to Americans in the AIR, were up against odds they could not hope to contend with, individual merits of MiG-29K and Mirage F1 notwithstanding.

They have relatively new technologies does Iraq had wihitecomb area rule fuselage jets, does they had negative stability jets like F-16/F-15/F-18 with exception of Mig-29, how did Iraq stands against 15-20 attacking countries with latest ECM/AWACS stuffs at their disposal, stop being have slave mentality sir

 

[LeGenD]

Why please explain in details

This would turn into a very lengthy discussion for which I do not have sufficient time as of late.

USAF is already operating a large number of combat aircraft with no peer in avionics and VLO capabilities. USAF also have superior EW and network-centric capabilities on hand.

Russians are far behind in this race actually. To give you an idea, they are very late to equip their combat aircraft with an AESA radar system whereas USAF achieved this milestone in the 1990s and is now shifting to 4th generation AESA radar systems.

China is doing better than Russia in certain aspects such as in the domain of avionics and airframe design but the CORE of its aviation expertise is still Russian in large part.

Why please explain in details


They have relatively new technologies does Iraq had wihitecomb area rule fuselage jets, does they had negative stability jets like F-16/F-15/F-18 with exception of Mig-29, how did Iraq stands against 15-20 attacking countries with latest ECM/AWACS stuffs at their disposal, stop being have slave mentality sir

You do not cheapen battlefield accomplishments of others - this is my point.

WE didn't shoot down anything vastly superior than an F-16 MLU in Su-30 MKI.

In fact, F-16 MLU have superior avionics and BVR engagement profile than Su-30 MKI. F-16 Block 52+ is even better.

In fact, read this: https://www.defensenews.com/air/201...es-problems-despite-russian-spare-parts-deal/

 

[Ultima Thule]

This would turn into a very lengthy discussion for which I do not have sufficient time as of late.

USAF is already operating a large number of combat aircraft with no peer in avionics and VLO capabilities. USAF also have superior EW and network-centric capabilities on hand.

Russians are far behind in this race actually. To give you an idea, they are very late to equip their combat aircraft with an AESA radar system whereas USAF achieved this milestone in the 1990s and is now shifting to 4th generation AESA radar systems.

China is doing better than Russia in certain aspects such as in the domain of avionics and airframe design but the CORE of its aviation expertise is still Russian in large part.

And why do you assume that older avionics of Russians no better than US/western avionics, and what kind of tech they are using, Russian first to developed fighter jet sized PESA (MIG-31)

 

[LeGenD]

And why do you assume that older avionics of Russians no better than US/western avionics, and what kind of tech they are using, Russian first to developed fighter jet sized PESA (MIG-31)

Do you have any conception of R&D or such? OR you think Russia is a peer of USA in everything tech-related by DEFAULT (Magic)? Do you not see the disparity between Russian defense budget and American defense budget?

All I see from you is argue for the sake of argue in this thread.

You talk about PESA solution, then take a look at Arleigh Burke class. No contest.

 

[Ultima Thule]

You do not cheapen battlefield accomplishments of others - this is my point.

WE didn't shoot down anything vastly superior than an F-16 MLU in Su-30 MKI.

In fact, F-16 MLU have superior avionics and BVR engagement profile than Su-30 MKI. F-16 Block 52+ is even better.

Don't have slave mentality, Su-27 and its versions MKI are comparable to F-15 series of jets and admitted by USAF/Pentagon/western world and MKI using French/Israeli avionics with Russian radar (BARS PESA) not using solely Russian avionics and Radar

 

[LeGenD]

Don't have slave mentality, Su-27 and its versions MKI are comparable to F-15 series of jets and admitted by USAF/Pentagon/western world and MKI using French/Israeli avionics with Russian radar (BARS PESA) not using solely Russian avionics and Radar

You are one ignorant person. You do not know much about technologies in general and do not understand the difference between hype and reality. Slave mentality my foot.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Do you have any conception of R&D or such? OR you think Russia is a peer of USA in everything tech-related by DEFAULT (Magic)? Do you not see the disparity between Russian defense budget and American defense budget?

All I see from you is argue for the sake of argue in this thread.

You talk about PESA solution, then take a look at Arleigh Burke class. No contest.

Do you get rid of your slave mentality and be neutral, Su-27 have a lots of classified techs in it hat we don't know about it defense budget comparison is nothing they can secretly doing research from years just like USA doing for it secret project named BLACK PROJECTS

 

[LeGenD]

Do you get rid of your slave mentality and be neutral, Su-27 have a lots of classified techs in it hat we don't know about it defense budget comparison is nothing they can secretly doing research from years just like USA doing for it secret project named BLACK PROJECTS

Digest this:

"The [Su-30MKI] fleet is prohibitively expensive equipment and faces problems due to high, premature failure rate of subsystems like

engines, radars, missiles, avionics, etc.," said Vinod Kumar Narang, a retired Indian Air Force air vice-marshal.

From year 2017.

 

[Ultima Thule]

You are one ignorant person. You do not know much about technologies in general and do not understand the difference between hype and reality. Slave mentality my foot.

you're retarded person and you know all the technologies, what a retarded and self egoistic person you're

Digest this:

"The [Su-30MKI] fleet is prohibitively expensive equipment and faces problems due to high, premature failure rate of subsystems like

engines, radars, missiles, avionics, etc.," said Vinod Kumar Narang, a retired Indian Air Force air vice-marshal.

From year 2017.

So that doesn't means its not comparable to F-15 but they have a quality control problems, most western militaries consider Su-27 as a Russian counterpart of F-15, you're west praising argument doesn't have any weight, i believes on western militaries statements or you ridiculous fake claims

 

[LeGenD]

you're retarded person and you know all the technologies, what a retarded and self egoistic person you're

Listen, MORON. Digest this:

"The [Su-30MKI] fleet is prohibitively expensive equipment and faces problems due to high, premature failure rate of subsystems like

engines, radars, missiles, avionics, etc.," said Vinod Kumar Narang, a retired Indian Air Force air vice-marshal.

Link: https://www.defensenews.com/air/201...es-problems-despite-russian-spare-parts-deal/

Don't be a MORON.

Listen to, and learn from, better informed people.

There is a clear difference between REALITY and IMAGINARY worldview (yours) in which Russians are able to match American advances in technology-related matters with not even a 10th of budget, economic might and R&D capability.

you're retarded person and you know all the technologies, what a retarded and self egoistic person you're


So that doesn't means its not comparable to F-15 but they have a quality control problems, most western militaries consider Su-27 as a Russian counterpart of F-15, you're west praising argument doesn't have any weight, i believes on western militaries statements or you ridiculous fake claims

No, they do not.

FYI: https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/eagle-versus-flanker-deadlier

Consider your assertion debunked.

 

[Caprxl]

I doubt every single jet is not deployed and some are kept in reserve.

I doubt that, But if we get few new Vipers n upgrade old ones, its good. Its d only way i see to get the numbers filled otherwise we wont b getting a single or couple of em.
Fingers crossed.

PS: Still mourning on d loss , our national Asset that cant be replaced with any amount of money.