US should declare that Pakistan has no claim on Kashmir:US Expert.

[KRAIT]

Bhai US can get their supplies through northern route but what about all that heavy equipment, weapons and other stuff that cannot be airlifted? How will that move out of Afghanistan? US cannot leave it just like that.

As for the sanctions, any such move by US will compel Pakistani govt to declare / view it as an enemy and all bets will be off. And what is the guarantee that US will just stop at that? Next, they will want us to let go Baluchistan or else they will slap sanctions again. So my point is Pakistan will have to draw the line sooner rather then later and it will also have to learn to stand on its own feet.
Afghanistan War: Closed Pakistan Routes Costing U.S. $100 Million a Month - ABC News

I think US already has a plan B for such situation. Point is, is Pakistan in a state to view US as an enemy ? And most important is can it Treat like an enemy ?

US has important say in all economic agencies where Pakistan has applied for funds and recently US has blocked few of them in World Bank and IMF.

I get it when you say that you will stand on your own feet if situation arises, what I am focusing is on what cost ?

Kashmir issue is a delicate issue but taking too many assumptions and taking the best one and ignoring the worst will be biggest mistake. Foreign Policy of Pakistan should be mature enough to avoid US making such declarations at first. Even if they declare, it comes down to diplomacy to make them reverse their stand which is not easy.

One just cannot make US as their enemy just because it declares something. It will be naive thing to do. One has to be realistic and look for worst case scenario as I said earlier. Why not we discuss what will be the side effects of Pakistan treating US as enemy ?

 

[Rafael]

I think US already has a plan B for such situation. Point is is Pakistan in a state to view US as an enemy. And most important is can it Treat like an enemy.

US has important say in all economic agencies where Pakistan has applied for funds and recently US has blocked few of them in World Bank and IMF.

I get it when you say that you will stand on your own feet if situation arises, what I am focusing is on what cost ?

Kashmir issue is a delicate issue but taking too many assumptions and taking the best one and ignoring the worst will be biggest mistake. Foreign Policy of Pakistan should be mature enough to avoid US making such declarations at first. Even if they declare, it comes down to diplomacy to make them reverse their stand which is not easy.

One just cannot make US as their enemy just because it declares something. It will be naive thing to do. One has to be realistic and look for worst case scenario as I said earlier. Why not we discuss what will be the side effects of Pakistan treating US as enemy ?

Unless they are planning to burn all the equipment, I don't see any plan 'B' to pull out everything from Afghanistan.

Like I said, Pakistan will have to draw a line somewhere. Next they will declare Baluchistan an independent state, what would you like us to view US as? A friend?

 

[vsdoc]

Unless they are planning to burn all the equipment, I don't see any plan 'B' to pull out everything from Afghanistan.

Like I said, Pakistan will have to draw a line somewhere. Next they will declare Baluchistan an independent state, what would you like us to view US as? A friend?

I think its in your best interests to facilitate a painless US drawdown.

 

[Rafael]

I think its in your best interests to facilitate a painless US drawdown.

Indeed it is as long as US does not make a move to harm Pakistan's interests, diplomatically or militarily.

 

[vsdoc]

Indeed it is as long as US does not make a move to harm Pakistan's interests, diplomatically or militarily.

How do you see either happening?

Have the drones stopped?

Most other nations with an army like yours would have drawn the line in the sand before that.

 

[Rafael]

How do you see either happening?

Have the drones stopped?

Most other nations with an army like yours would have drawn the line in the sand before that.

I don't see any thing happening so long the US is stuck in Afghanistan. Once they leave home safely, anything can happen.

True that. Very unfortunate!

 

[vsdoc]

True that. Very unfortunate!

What happens if Imran gets elected and the drones continue?

Does it mean collusion or helplessness?

Or eventually, both?

 

[KRAIT]

Unless they are planning to burn all the equipment, I don't see any plan 'B' to pull out everything from Afghanistan.

Like I said, Pakistan will have to draw a line somewhere. Next they will declare Baluchistan an independent state, what would you like us to view US as? A friend?

Declaring regarding Kashmir as a third party interest is different from Baluchistan issue. I think you do understand that there is huge difference between Kashmir and Baluchistan.

What they have proposed in terms of Baluchistan, till now, is just statements. Both govt.s, US and Pakistan knows that it doesn't bear too much significance. But I agree that if they demand for independent Baluchistan then treat them as enemy.

Again it all comes down to diplomacy where Pakistan can avoid it or not. I just want you to explore the idea and impact of US turning into Pakistan's enemy. What will be the effects ? Start will "cons" then we can talk abut "pros". This is most important and pressing issue.

P.S. US is not completely withdrawing from Afghanistan post 2014. It will leave 25,000 soldiers forces to work with ANA and while they are giving billions as aid to Afghanistan they can leave these equipments for ANA. US has its own interest in being present in Afghanistan post 2014. I think you do know about it. http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/16/state_department_official_negotiations_to_extend_us_troop_presence_in_afghanistan_s

 

[Rafael]

What happens if Imran gets elected and the drones continue?

Does it mean collusion or helplessness?

Or eventually, both?

As far as I have heard him, he will use all diplomatic means to end these strikes. His solution to end these drones is as under:

1 - Guarantee the US (and by extension, India) that no terrorist attack will originate from Pakistan's soil.
2 - Protest in the UN, changing American public opinion by highlighting the plight of civilian victims of these attacks.
3 - Seek help from friendly countries. KSA, China etc.
4 - If nothing works, then we will be in our right to bring them down.

Fair enough?

 

[vsdoc]

As far as I have heard him, he will use all diplomatic means to end these strikes. His solution to end these drones is as under:

1 - Guarantee the US (and by extension, India) that no terrorist attack will originate from Pakistan's soil.

He went on record just yesterday saying he can guarantee no such thing.

How credible is a man who says do this, otherwise I cannot guarantee that?

Helpless?

In collusion?

I personally believe the latter.

 

[root]

She is off her bipolar meds again i guess..

 

[Rafael]

Declaring regarding Kashmir as a third party interest is different from Baluchistan issue. I think you do understand that there is huge difference between Kashmir and Baluchistan.

What they have proposed in terms of Baluchistan, till now, is just statements. Both govt.s, US and Pakistan knows that it doesn't bear too much significance. But I agree that if they demand for independent Baluchistan then treat them as enemy.

Again it all comes down to diplomacy where Pakistan can avoid it or not. I just want you to explore the idea and impact of US turning into Pakistan's enemy. What will be the effects ? Start will "cons" then we can talk abut "pros". This is most important and pressing issue.

P.S. US is not completely withdrawing from Afghanistan post 2014. It will leave 40,000 special soldiers forces to work with ANA and while they are giving billions as aid to Afghanistan they can leave these equipments for ANA. US has its own interest in being present in Afghanistan post 2014. I think you do know about it.

IOK is different than Baluchistan but Pakistani administered Kashmir is not.

If the 'expert' only meant IOK, then nothing will change for Pakistan and it will be content with lip service only as the issue is pretty much dead. But including Pakistani administered Kashmir in his definition of 'Kashmir' will be a different ball game altogether.

 

[Rafael]

He went on record just yesterday saying he can guarantee no such thing.

How credible is a man who says do this, otherwise I cannot guarantee that?

Helpless?

In collusion?

I personally believe the latter.

I didn't watch his interview but I think he said if the Kashmir is NOT resolved politically / peacefully then he cannot provide any guarantees.

 

[KRAIT]

IOK is different than Baluchistan but Pakistani administered Kashmir is not.

If the 'expert' only meant IOK, then nothing will change for Pakistan and it will be content with lip service only as the issue is pretty much dead. But including Pakistani administered Kashmir in his definition of 'Kashmir' will be a different ball game altogether.

Well you have pointed out a crucial and important issue. Its important for them to declare which Kashmir are they talking about. If they include Pakistan admin. Kashmir, then situation will be more different. But if they mean that Pakistan can't claim Indian admin. Kashmir and supports LOC to be made IB, then things will be pretty interesting.

Well, I will be waiting for some concrete and clear official message from US as no one can be certain of US when their Foreign Policy is concerned.

 

[vsdoc]

I didn't watch his interview but I think he said if the Kashmir is NOT resolved politically / peacefully then he cannot provide any guarantees.

Why can't he?

What sort of leadership is he going to give you guys then?

Where any terrorist plot can be hatched on your soil and perpetrated on another country?

That's a recipe for disaster.