US-origin M777 howitzers to add fire power to Indian Army

[indiatester]

Titanium is almost as expensive as Gold.

No its not.

You can buy one pound retail at ~45$
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Gold on the other hand for 1 pound would be upwards of $16000
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[jhungary]

So ERFB has fins that help glide the ordinance towards the enemy thereby increasing the Range.

So its all about the Ammunition, nothing to do with the Gun itself.

No, the rounds would have different range and speed just like a rifle have different range to the same bullet.

The Barrel length and the muzzle velocity would have the greatest effect on the range, where the barrel length would determine the rifled pattern of the round, the muzzle velocity itself determined the initial speed of the projectile, thus going to put in the difference of the round itself.

Also the Gun Recoil reduction, Gun barrel elevation and even the weight of the gun can also somehow play into the range of the round too.

I did some digging and It appears ordinance that uses fins to increase sacrifices accuracy for Range. So its useful for saturation bombing, not targeted attack which India would need.

Excalibur needs a GPS to bring back its accuracy to acceptable levels and even improve it considerably.

That makes the ammunition ridiculously expensive. (for India)

This statement is wrong in ANY and EVERY Level

Testing Raytheon's Excalibur: Artillery Accurate to 5 Meters at Over 20 Miles Away - Guns.com

The FoF GPS system and the fin is there to increase accuracy, basically, they are to replace Copperhead and to be used for precision strike package.

Raython Claim a M982 round can hit within 4 meter in any given Range to the maximum range because of the Fin and FoF GPS.

And for normal saturation targeting, the US uses M107 round

M-777 has range of 40 km using ordinance like Excalibur.

Dhanush which is the Indian version of HF77 gives a range of 38 km using regular ERFB-BB.

With specialized ammunition like Excalibur, the range would be around 50 km. Assuming a standard 30% increase in range.

Which was my point all along.

No, it did not get there like that

Swedish Bofor would have 35 km range using Excalibur because of the barrel length and recoil from the heavier gun. Which dissipate energy used to push the round forward to compensate for the recoil.

Now, I don't know how much of modification the Indian Bofor done to it, unless the indian version have sort of a state of the art muzzle break and significantly lighter build, the range would be more or less the same as the Swedish Bofor

 

[Abingdonboy]

Undisclosed number of Excalibur rounds ?


Your understanding is wrong .. You are merely going to (if the deal is actually signed) assemble m-777s (not get transfer of technology). And no Excalibur rounds (which are produced by Raytheon - not BAE).


Raytheon: Excalibur Precision Guided Extended Range Artillery Projectile

The Excalibur rounds were part of the FMS package on offer to India, I don't see why these rounds wouldn't be sold to India, the Americans are willing to sell some of their most advanced tech- F-35s, AESA-equipped fighters, AH-64Es, EMALS etc so some guided arty shells are no bug deal. India has the $$$, the Americans want a sale- simple business.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The Excalibur rounds were part of the FMS package on offer to India, I don't see why these rounds wouldn't be sold to India, the Americans are willing to sell some of their most advanced tech- F-35s, AESA-equipped fighters, AH-64Es, EMALS etc so some guided arty shells are no bug deal. India has the $$$, the Americans want a sale- simple business.

Excalibur shells are very expensive

We are buying this Light weight Gun so that we can carry it on a helicopter
as far as possible especially on top of mountains

This GPS guided shell is not on our wishlist

 

[Abingdonboy]

Excalibur shells are very expensive

We are buying this Light weight Gun so that we can carry it on a helicopter
as far as possible especially on top of mountains

This GPS guided shell is not on our wishlist

They are very expensive indeed but that doesn't mean their won't be specific instances where they won't come in handy. The Brahmos is very (very) expensive, as is the MICA, as is the Meteor etc etc but they all have their uses and justify their cost.


It's not an opinion but a fact the original FMS deal included the sale of an undisclosed number of Excalibur rounds.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

They are very expensive indeed but that doesn't mean their won't be specific instances where they won't come in handy. The Brahmos is very (very) expensive, as is the MICA, as is the Meteor etc etc but they all have their uses and justify their cost.


It's not an opinion but a fact the original FMS deal included the sale of an undisclosed number of Excalibur rounds.

Cant we have DRDO make a GPS guided shell

 

[uparyupari]

This statement is wrong in ANY and EVERY Level

Testing Raytheon's Excalibur: Artillery Accurate to 5 Meters at Over 20 Miles Away - Guns.com

The FoF GPS system and the fin is there to increase accuracy, basically, they are to replace Copperhead and to be used for precision strike package.

Raython Claim a M982 round can hit within 4 meter in any given Range to the maximum range because of the Fin and FoF GPS.

And for normal saturation targeting, the US uses M107 round

No its not. Without GPS the Excalibur CEP will be worse that the CEP for ERFB.

The changed flight pattern results in drift from the intended path which is why GPS had to be added to restore its accuracy and better it.

No, it did not get there like that

Swedish Bofor would have 35 km range using Excalibur because of the barrel length and recoil from the heavier gun. Which dissipate energy used to push the round forward to compensate for the recoil.

Now, I don't know how much of modification the Indian Bofor done to it, unless the indian version have sort of a state of the art muzzle break and significantly lighter build, the range would be more or less the same as the Swedish Bofor

India's Dhanush towed gun completes trials - IHS Jane's 360

Artillery officers said the howitzer's locally developed electronic sighting and laying system and higher calibre, which increased its range from 27 km to 38 km, were improvements over the original FH-77 gun.

Cant we have DRDO make a GPS guided shell

DRDO is working towards integrating GPS into Pinaka-II (60km range) and use it for precision strike. We are still a few years away from integrating GPS in artillery shells.

It would be better if we can buy it off the shelf in limited numbers.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Cant we have DRDO make a GPS guided shell

Sure but that is a medium to long term ambition, the Excalibur is ready today. Just like the Astra BVR being underdevelopment doesn't stop the IAF from buying foreign BVRAAMs for the moment.

 

[jhungary]

No its not. Without GPS the Excalibur CEP will be worse that the CEP for ERFB.

The changed flight pattern results in drift from the intended path which is why GPS had to be added to restore its accuracy and better it.

Actually, no, the change in flight path is the result of the fin, not the GPS, the GPS cannot change the flight pattern as that was a passive Fire and Forget system, all flight pattern change done BEFORE the round left the chamber

If you fire without the GPS system at all, they would have retain the same range but have the accuracy as a normal EFRB.

The GPS does not have anything to do with the Range, and without it, it would be the same round as any EFRB.

India's Dhanush towed gun completes trials - IHS Jane's 360

Artillery officers said the howitzer's locally developed electronic sighting and laying system and higher calibre, which increased its range from 27 km to 38 km, were improvements over the original FH-77 gun.

My example was to illustrate how a different gun have a different range firing the same round, the Indian gun based on the Bofor is a L45 instead of a L39

I don't believe Indian gun ranged the M982 round at 38 Km, if that is the case, then you are going backward, the Swedish Archer Artillery System based on the Bofor 77B have 60+ Km range when using the M982 (instead of the 50Km range Raytheon stated 50km), because they use a L52 barrel.

So for a Dhanush to be able to use a M982 round, you are looking at somewhere between 45-50 km to be fair, but in fairness, Dhanush would be classified as heavy artillery, instead of light artillery

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The Excalibur rounds were part of the FMS package on offer to India, I don't see why these rounds wouldn't be sold to India, the Americans are willing to sell some of their most advanced tech- F-35s, AESA-equipped fighters, AH-64Es, EMALS etc so some guided arty shells are no bug deal. India has the $$$, the Americans want a sale- simple business.

Post a source about the excalib rounds !(each of which costs over 53-54K dollars)


The raytheon guys ain't marketing that news on their website .. And your "understandings" arent worth shit.

 

[Transhumanist]

Post a source about the excalib rounds !(each of which costs over 53-54K dollars)


The raytheon guys ain't marketing that news on their website .. And your "understandings" arent worth shit.

That's the 2013 per unit cost for the Excalibur round, according to House Report 112-493 - DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS BILL, 2013:

Committee Reports - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - House Report 112-493

The report gives a total lot figure and price, you can do the math and verify the veracity of the information if you so please.

 

[Heinz Guderian]

I do not find this deal very attractive. Most probably we will get an assembly line and will end up buying more that this order. We should have waited for Kalyani group's design.

There is no relation between Indian made Artillery, which are meant for Pakistan, where artillery can be transported by road.
And the M777 is for eastern border,

remember one thing we have compulsions to protect foreign countries too , in a case if China attack Bhutan, you have to air lift artilleries to Bhutan, the Dhanush cant do this job.

 

[Transhumanist]

M777A2

 

[Mike_Brando]

Sir,I thought our Dhanush Howritzers were doing fine.....is there an urgent need for the M777s?

Dhanush belongs to a different category and it will replace all the remaining(about 200) original Bofors FH-77 Haubits.The I.A. has a long term need to induct around 414 Dhanush 155 mm in it's arsenal and hence has placed an order of 119 Dhanush with the OFB.

 

[45'22']

Dhanush belongs to a different category and it will replace all the remaining(about 200) original Bofors FH-77 Haubits.The I.A. has a long term need to induct around 414 Dhanush 155 mm in it's arsenal and hence has placed an order of 119 Dhanush with the OFB.

How Dhanush belongs to a different category?? Both M777 and Dhanush are 155MM and range is similar as well.
Only the caliber is different....

What added advantages does M777 provide other than the airlifting of Howitzers