US-origin M777 howitzers to add fire power to Indian Army

[kakathiya]

M777 makes extensive use of titanium and titanium castings to help it reduce weight. That is why its so expensive while being so low tech.

may be any one who captures these guns becomes rich, better to place these guns in a vault

 

[uparyupari]

M-777 Supply Chain in the US

may be any one who captures these guns becomes rich, better to place these guns in a vault

Su 30 MKI makes extensive use of Titanium. The entire Airframe is made of Titanium.

Worse this Titanium is imported from Russia and the manufacturing process is extremely wasteful.

For example, a 486 kg titanium bar supplied by Russia is whittled down to a 15.9 kg tail component. The titanium shaved off is wasted. Similarly a wing bracket that weighs just 3.1 kg has to be fashioned from a titanium forging that weighs 27 kg.

 

[skynet]

For example, a 486 kg titanium bar supplied by Russia is whittled down to a 15.9 kg tail component. The titanium shaved off is wasted. Similarly a wing bracket that weighs just 3.1 kg has to be fashioned from a titanium forging that weighs 27 kg

how do you know about this

 

[indiatester]

may be any one who captures these guns becomes rich, better to place these guns in a vault

Titanium is not a bullion metal. Did you confuse it for Platinum?

 

[uparyupari]

how do you know about this

A Little bird told me.

 

[GR!FF!N]

this shows Indian army's lack of confidence on mi-26, and why cant IA build helipads specifically for MI-26, and why cant it be upgraded by Indian companies like HAL, if there is a will any thing can be done

the reason is India has only a handful of MI-26 left which is going to be retired soon..

we are buying Chinook...and this is what going to be....

move this M777 anywhere using Chinook..

the thing is most people doesn't know,if Payload capacity would be the only parameter,we'd buy AN-124,not C-130.

 

[saurav]

I do not find this deal very attractive. Most probably we will get an assembly line and will end up buying more that this order. We should have waited for Kalyani group's design.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I do not find this deal very attractive. Most probably we will get an assembly line and will end up buying more that this order. We should have waited for Kalyani group's design.

Please, the Kalyani group has ZERO experience in this area, they were at least a decade (probably more0 from having a product ready to go into service. Considering the IA has already wasted 30 years with zero arty inductions, do you want them to wait yet longer?


The M777 deal is a bloody god send to the IA and its MSC.

Bofors is a dream to operate. It turns on its own, moves on its own and has a automated crane to load shells ............. one of the finest piece of towed artillery guns.

It sure is but it has its place and the M777 has its.

It can be airlifted but by MI-26

MI 26 can airlift Chinook along with Bofors

The Mi-26s will be out of service within 4 years.

then why were these army guys were crying like babys that they need light guns for the mountains, if MI-26 can carry boforce guns on to the mountains, did any of the army generals had a stake in the american company, or they dont trust MI-26 may be

his shows Indian army's lack of confidence on mi-26, and why cant IA build helipads specifically for MI-26, and why cant it be upgraded by Indian companies like HAL, if there is a will any thing can be done

The IAF selected the CH-47F over the Mi-26, end of story.

At present the IAF has,perhaps, 1 Mi-26 in a fly-worthy condition at any given time.


The Mi-26 is unable to operate from the forward positions of the IA (too damn big, its massive downwash is bloody dangerous for a lot of these locations), is a pain in the backside to keep airworthy (Boeing will guarantee an availability rate in excess of 90% for the Chinooks, the Mi-26-T2 would be lucky to get 60%) and has a limited military role.


It is like the argument of the AN-124 vs the C-17. One can lift more but is a hanger queen and expensive to operate, the other carries relatively less cargo but can be operated from nearly anywhere, is a dream to fly and keep airworthy and is far more suited to military operations.

 

[saurav]

Please, the Kalyani group has ZERO experience in this area, they were at least a decade (probably more0 from having a product ready to go into service. Considering the IA has already wasted 30 years with zero arty inductions, do you want them to wait yet longer?


The M777 deal is a bloody god send to the IA and its MSC.

Of course.. And that God is Amrika, right..?

I really find it interesting that the moment our own programs have started to materialize, foreign companies become ready to shift their assembly lines and IA starts putting pressure on govt. BTW there is still some procedural delay in procuring these guns. And when we have waited 30 years, and Dhanush is ready to be inducted, I really don't see the pressing need to spend so much money.

I have also noticed a flood of articles praising Armata tank here and praising it to hilt. Interestingly articles about Arjun's issue also start coming when Russia unveiled Armata. We have to get out of importing such "godsend" systems for armed forces.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I really find it interesting that the moment our own programs have started to materialize, foreign companies become ready to shift their assembly lines and IA starts putting pressure on govt. BTW there is still some procedural delay in procuring these guns. And when we have waited 30 years, and Dhanush is ready to be inducted, I really don't see the pressing need to spend so much money.

The Dhanush is NOT a competitor to the M777 nor will the introduction of the M777 in anyway affect orders for the Dhanush- they have different purposes.


And by the way where do you think the Dhanush is from? You think it is an Indian system? It is basically an up-gunned and modernised Bofors FH-77B. I don't see much substance to your claim that Indian projects are starting to materialise, maybe in ten years but not today, no way.

Can the Dhanush be airlifted by the CH-47F? No. This alone makes the M777 worth the money, without air-mobile arty the MSC is toothless.

The pressing need is that the IA hasn't inducted a SINGLE piece of artillery in over 30 years! Whilst all of India's potential adversary are inducting tube artillery by the thousand at this very moment. This deal is under $1 billion USD and will be built in India, I don't see any grounds to object- this is peanuts and brings about a lot of advantages for India and the IA.

I have also noticed a flood of articles praising Armata tank here and praising it to hilt. Interestingly articles about Arjun's issue also start coming when Russia unveiled Armata. We have to get out of importing such "godsend" systems for armed forces.

The IA will be inducted no more foreign MBTs I can assure you of that. More Arjuns will be inducted and the FMBT will be the game-changer.

 

[45'22']

Please, the Kalyani group has ZERO experience in this area, they were at least a decade (probably more0 from having a product ready to go into service. Considering the IA has already wasted 30 years with zero arty inductions, do you want them to wait yet longer?


The M777 deal is a bloody god send to the IA and its MSC.


It sure is but it has its place and the M777 has its.




The Mi-26s will be out of service within 4 years.





The IAF selected the CH-47F over the Mi-26, end of story.

At present the IAF has,perhaps, 1 Mi-26 in a fly-worthy condition at any given time.


The Mi-26 is unable to operate from the forward positions of the IA (too damn big, its massive downwash is bloody dangerous for a lot of these locations), is a pain in the backside to keep airworthy (Boeing will guarantee an availability rate in excess of 90% for the Chinooks, the Mi-26-T2 would be lucky to get 60%) and has a limited military role.


It is like the argument of the AN-124 vs the C-17. One can lift more but is a hanger queen and expensive to operate, the other carries relatively less cargo but can be operated from nearly anywhere, is a dream to fly and keep airworthy and is far more suited to military operations.

Sir,I thought our Dhanush Howritzers were doing fine.....is there an urgent need for the M777s?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Sir,I thought our Dhanush Howritzers were doing fine.....is there an urgent need for the M777s?

Like I have said bro, the Dhanush cannot be airlifted by the CH-47F which means in times of war the MSC would not be able to have any arty firepower at their forward locations, you might as well not raise the MSC unless you have ULH in service. The Dhanush doesn't fit the bill, it will serve well elsewhere.

 

[45'22']

Like I have said bro, the Dhanush cannot be airlifted by the CH-47F which means in times of war the MSC would not be able to have any arty firepower at their forward locations, you might as well not raise the MSC unless you have ULH in service. The Dhanush doesn't fit the bill, it will serve well elsewhere.

Yep,just read your post
Btw are we using any guided shells in our artillery??
any you said about Chinooks airlifting the guns......do you think just 15 would be enough??

 

[saurav]

The Dhanush is NOT a competitor to the M777 nor will the introduction of the M777 in anyway affect orders for the Dhanush- they have different purposes.


And by the way where do you think the Dhanush is from? You think it is an Indian system? It is basically an up-gunned and modernised Bofors FH-77B. I don't see much substance to your claim that Indian projects are starting to materialise, maybe in ten years but not today, no way.

Can the Dhanush be airlifted by the CH-47F? No. This alone makes the M777 worth the money, without air-mobile arty the MSC is toothless.

The pressing need is that the IA hasn't inducted a SINGLE piece of artillery in over 30 years! Whilst all of India's potential adversary are inducting tube artillery by the thousand at this very moment. This deal is under $1 billion USD and will be built in India, I don't see any grounds to object- this is peanuts and brings about a lot of advantages for India and the IA.



The IA will be inducted no more foreign MBTs I can assure you of that. More Arjuns will be inducted and the FMBT will be the game-changer.

The reason for the requirement for ULH was the pathetic infrastructure in border areas. When Government has finally accelerated infra development and the situation is going to improve a LOT in coming 4-5 years, where is the need for paltry 145 guns..?

Regarding guns carried by Chinnoks, I have real concern about Chinooks operating till forward regions when the opposition will obviously have Anti-aircraft missiles.

Dhanush may very well be upgunned F-77, but its now totally an Indian gun and money spent will remain in India. Not to forget its much cheaper compared this Titanium plated "godsent" gun.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The reason for the requirement for ULH was the pathetic infrastructure in border areas. When Government has finally accelerated infra development and the situation is going to improve a LOT in coming 4-5 years, where is the need for paltry 145 guns..?

Well this simply isn't true. You can only upgrade your infrastructure so much but air-mobile arty guns will always be the king of the battlefield. You don't think being able to transport 155 calibre arty guns wherever you like is a nice capability to have and a pretty devastating one at that?

Regarding guns carried by Chinnoks, I have real concern about Chinooks operating till forward regions when the opposition will obviously have Anti-aircraft missiles.

A/C will obviously operate in airspace where safe flight ops can be carried out. Considering arty will always be a few kms behind the frontline this isn't a real issue.

Dhanush may very well be upgunned F-77, but its now totally an Indian gun and money spent will remain in India. Not to forget its much cheaper compared this Titanium plated "godsent" gun.

Comparing Apples and Oranges, the M777 fills a very real niche and thus comparing it to the FH-77/Dhanush is silly to say the least.

Btw are we using any guided shells in our artillery??

From what I understand the M777 deal for India includes an undisclosed amount of Excaliubur rounds. This really is an area India needs to develop an in-house alternative purely for cost reasons and I hear such things are in the works and being pursued aggressively.

any you said about Chinooks airlifting the guns......do you think just 15 would be enough??

No way. 15 is just the beginning for sure.