US Def Sec Ashton Carter Witnesses India's Pakistan Obsession in Delhi

[RiazHaq]

There's a good critique of Indian foreign policy in a book by ex FM Jaswant Singh that talks about its "strategic confinement" between LoC and LAC. It's a good read.

"The principal purpose and objectives of our (India's) foreign policy have been trapped between four lines: the Durand Line,; the McMahon Line; the Line of Control (LoC) and the Line of Actual Control (LAC). To achieve autonomy, an absolute necessity in the conduct of our foreign policy, we have to first find an answer to this strategic confinement".

http://www.riazhaq.com/2015/05/jaswant-singh-on-indian-foreign-policys.html

 

[cloud4000]

I mean if you are taking the cue from Indian media and applying it to the Indian diplomatic efforts then of course it's going to look shabby..
Indian media is a problem...I don't see anything our govt. or diplomats have done that is unwarranted. (barring some local MPs who speak out like rabid dogs from time to time, but are in no position of influencing policy)

Summoning the US Ambassador to protest the sale of eight paltry F-16s seems a bit much, no?

 

[Peshwa]

Summoning the US Ambassador to protest the sale of eight paltry F-16s seems a bit much, no?

Is it?! In my opinion its part of leaving no stone unturned..
The aircraft is absolutely more a threat to India than the militants itself on top of being subsidized while being top of the line with some very lethal armaments included.
Yes. I do admit that it may seem paltry and unnecessary to protest for 8 jets...it really doesnt affect the security paradigm, but it does let the US know that we take notice and that if they want to do business with us (geo-strategic), they cannot arm our opponents against us. The US may not take orders from India, but at least now they know that we are looking at this closely and that any follow on orders might affect a much larger business the US could potentially receive from India.
I think we did what we were supposed to..

This attitude of theirs is more so due to their media and Pakistan centric election campaigns. But things do change fast later on as for example it was same Modi who had specific Pakistan bashing lines esp against Nawaz Sharif in almost every speech of him, but now they are best buddies. Indian media and politics feed on anti Pakistan rhetoric and the same is displayed by Indian population. Bdw I have interacted with lots of Indians but their perspective about Pakistan is totally changed right from the start. Can U expect an Indian Hindu to call India and saying that I have a Pakistani friend for whom i need this or expect an Indian Hindu to call U from India that just wanted to know U r all right? Its because they have seen us with their own eyes and their accounts related to Pakistan and Pakistanis is no more based on what media tells them. Same is case with us Pakistanis.

I agree that people to people contact will be the game changer in the India-Pak quagmire.
Pakistanis and Indians stick together abroad..
The only ones that rabidly hate either country and its people are the ones that have never met the other party in person
I can understand a sense of rivalry and maybe a disdain for the government/military of either country, but the absolute hate/enemity we see on PDF towards a general population is a by product of the lack of exposure.

 

[EAK]

Indian Media is the biggest hurdle in normal relation's between two countries.. it is a medium which build's the mind of general public and opinion's.. and to be honest the Indian press feed their people with hatred against Pakistan..

 

[Trisonics]

U.S is also obsessive about it's own security. Talk to any honest Pakistani and he will tell you the tiring routine they face every time they enter the U.S. India obsesses on it's security. We don't get why innocent Indians get killed by bomb strapped terrorist from a certain nation. U.S has also started experiencing this on their own land.

Why is obsessing on our security a problem? especially when India's security concerns come from Pakistan?


The F-16 protest is a way for us to test the waters. India cannot be part of a complex tango between 3 nations. The U.S just realized that critical war machines will never be bought by India, a loss of a bigger pie they could have flavored.

Lastly, rich coming from a man whose own India obsession has made him a compulsive blogger who camouflages his envy with thick anti-India vitriol.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

There's a good critique of Indian foreign policy in a book by ex FM Jaswant Singh that talks about its "strategic confinement" between LoC and LAC. It's a good read.

"The principal purpose and objectives of our (India's) foreign policy have been trapped between four lines: the Durand Line,; the McMahon Line; the Line of Control (LoC) and the Line of Actual Control (LAC). To achieve autonomy, an absolute necessity in the conduct of our foreign policy, we have to first find an answer to this strategic confinement".

http://www.riazhaq.com/2015/05/jaswant-singh-on-indian-foreign-policys.html

Strangely he doesnt mention Radcliffe line but durand line. why? @RiazHaq

 

[risingsinga]

That should tell you what exactly the difference b/w us and them. We are superior to them, they possess inferiority complex. While we in Pakistan don't give jack squat about them unless they send their monkeys aka terrorists towards our soil. Check out below link.

.......

Not at times..........Always

That's really serious and it is not just obsession but sending a secret agent to spread terrorism in other countries is an international crime. But I have always been told by indians (there a lot of them here) that Pakistan is exporting terrorism into india and ISI does control everything in India even their movie industry....but they never told me about this. I naturally believed that both are doing similar stuff. But I guess Pakistan gets bad media coverage or indians are better at propaganda.

 

[muhammadali233]

That's really serious and it is not just obsession but sending a secret agent to spread terrorism in other countries is an international crime. But I have always been told by indians (there a lot of them here) that Pakistan is exporting terrorism into india and ISI does control everything in India even their movie industry....but they never told me about this. I naturally believed that both are doing similar stuff. But I guess Pakistan gets bad media coverage or indians are better at propaganda.

ISI is very strong indeed and has a lot of influence but controlling the Bollywood is a bit too much in Pakistan these type of idiotic claims are called moun kay fair.
India media is specialised in propaganda against Pakistan.Not a long time ago india arrested a piegon for allegedly spying for Pakistan Don't believe me ? Watch this vid

This doesn't end here they also caught a balloon etc. Whereas Pakistan actually caught them do that in 2004 a Pakistan air force destroyed an Indian UAV and 2015 caught an Indian Small UAV drone in Kashmir LOC and in 2016 caught 5 indian 5 RA&W agents red handed.
Two things ISI doesn't do is Terrorist activities and export terrorism.They do quite alot of spying but killing inocent is just isn't their game.
When terrorist attacked Pakistan Air force bases they attacked and damaged some AWACS and Anti submarine warfare aircraft in Kamra and Karachi out of all the targets they could have destroyed.These aircraft are only used for surveillance of enemies navy or an air force Which is India not Talibans right?So who was behind these attacks?Talibans and some other baloch insurgents groups are heavily funded by RA&W and to some extent Mossad too.

 

[AugenBlick]

This is the problem, india is way bigger but not a responsible power. Had india been like a true friend to her neighbours there wouldn't be any wars in this region. From the very beginning India has been trying to impose on her neighbours what she wants , when you do so you abandon peace.

Ohh those evil Indians .. let us go to india for medical facilities and IPL and Shopping, Electricity for textile sector but come back and curse them

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@RiazHaq

We will continue opposing US weapon sales to Pakistan

We are enemies ; we do what we have to do

And US will also slowly realise that the MARGINAL utility of Pakistan
is getting NEGATIVE by the day

US does not treat its relations with India or Pakistan as a zero sum game, but India wants to. India wants US to abandon Pakistan to the point of declaring it a terrorist state.

This is an obsession in India. You just have to watch their obnoxious news channels and their nauseating unending coverage on Pakistan.

India is a bigger country, with a growing economy, but it behaves in an immature manner, at times.

We are enemies ; everything is fair in war

 

[Kompromat]

US uses Pakistan - India against each other for its interests.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

US uses Pakistan - India against each other for its interests.

Since when did Pakistan care for US interests

After 9 / 11 You helped USA only out of fear

If Pakistan had really been cooperative and friendlier with USA
You would have received much more rewards
and India could have not said anything


Please read this

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1072857/losing-friends-in-washington-dc/

 

[MadDog]

US does not treat its relations with India or Pakistan as a zero sum game, but India wants to. India wants US to abandon Pakistan to the point of declaring it a terrorist state.

This is an obsession in India. You just have to watch their obnoxious news channels and their nauseating unending coverage on Pakistan.

India is a bigger country, with a growing economy, but it behaves in an immature manner, at times.

This the main issue, sanity should prevail in the corridors of power in New Delhi, Pakistan and India are both now members of SCO, this kind of bickering will not contribute in any positive way to the entire region.

Since when did Pakistan care for US interests

After 9 / 11 You helped USA only out of fear

If Pakistan had really been cooperative and friendlier with USA
You would have received much more rewards
and India could have not said anything


Please read this

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1072857/losing-friends-in-washington-dc/

Pak-Us strategic and defence relationship is old, there is nothing being more cooperative or friendlier in International Relations, every country follows realpolitik, the interests of that individual country matter the most, Pakistan did what was good for Pakistan and US did what was good for US, simple as that, the cooperation in war on terror was in interests of both countries.
Now US has declared that Afghan talibs aren't the enemies, the State Dept refuses to refer to them as a terrorist group, why do you think this happened, it was because it was in American interests, thus you have the Quadrilateral group discussions going on in Islamabad between Pakistan, China, Afghanistan, US, Afghan Taliban !!!
So remember there is no " more friendlier or cooperative", every country pursues its own interests, when they converge the countries collaborate, when they don't, they become adversaries. This is the basis of international relations.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

This the main issue, sanity should prevail in the corridors of power in New Delhi, Pakistan and India are both now members of SCO, this kind of bickering will not contribute in any positive way to the entire region.

SCO is just a talking shop ; nothing else

The real deal is the AIIB and the TPP

One includes China ; Another excludes China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Infrastructure_Investment_Bank

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

In Asia there will be Economic and trade cooperation deals and
agreements which will INCLUDE China

But when it comes to Security matters USA will be the leader of the Anti China Alliance

This the main issue, sanity should prevail in the corridors of power in New Delhi, Pakistan and India are both now members of SCO, this kind of bickering will not contribute in any positive way to the entire region.



Pak-Us strategic and defence relationship is old, there is nothing being more cooperative or friendlier in International Relations, every country follows realpolitik, the interests of that individual country matter the most, Pakistan did what was good for Pakistan and US did what was good for US, simple as that, the cooperation in war on terror was in interests of both countries.
Now US has declared that Afghan talibs aren't the enemies, the State Dept refuses to refer to them as a terrorist group, why do you think this happened, it was because it was in American interests, thus you have the Quadrilateral group discussions going on in Islamabad between Pakistan, China, Afghanistan, US, Afghan Taliban !!!
So remember there is no " more friendlier or cooperative", every country pursues its own interests, when they converge the countries collaborate, when they don't, they become adversaries. This is the basis of international relations.

You are expressing your opinion

You should ALSO try to find out what USA thinks and feels about Pakistan
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IF US defence secretary says this to the Pakistani military delegation

http://www.dawn.com/news/1252498
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RECENTLY, US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter reportedly opened a meeting with senior Pakistani military leaders by declaring: “I must tell you, I am a friend of India.”
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It shows that US Pakistani relationship has become just a Transactional relatioship

You carry out a few strikes on the Taliban ; they give you 8 F 16

 

[shah1398]

I agree that people to people contact will be the game changer in the India-Pak quagmire.
Pakistanis and Indians stick together abroad..
The only ones that rabidly hate either country and its people are the ones that have never met the other party in person
I can understand a sense of rivalry and maybe a disdain for the government/military of either country, but the absolute hate/enemity we see on PDF towards a general population is a by product of the lack of exposure.

Totally agreed Sir.