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US assures China 38th parallel pullback if North Korean war | Guardian

all this talks are just for one single most important line "2. US agrees to talk to North Korea without preconditions."
if US "agrees" to talk to North korea without preconditions then what will they talk about?Kim jong un's hair cut? it seems like more of your analysis than of any expert.
North korea is not going to de denuclearize,US is pretty well aware of that,that is why they have changed their tones,the primary concern of US is if NoKo arm iran or others with this.
"North Korea's Kim Jong Un has one last chance to denuclearize before the US takes military action.
This is similar to the former situation with Saddam Hussein in Iraq. The US gave Saddam one last chance to let the nuclear weapon inspectors perform their job according to the peace agreement signed between the US and Iraq. Saddam reneged and the US took military action" :omghaha::omghaha::omghaha::omghaha: looks like you and your pal murika has not still come out of Iraq hangover bro,this is not Iraq,This is north korea,i would love to see US dare to take military action,which city do you think they will trade for destroying north korea?new york?Washington dc?fairly north korea just need to take out new york,backbone of America's economy :dance3:
Have you still not understood?if it was as same as iraq,the murikan drama-cracy soldiers would be there by now.so let me repeat it again out loud.
IT NOT IRAQ,IT IS NORTH KOREA,HEADED BY MARSHAL KIM


exactly brah,north korea will not care for themselves.they will make sure they take plenty out of their opponent.
murikkans are never going to war with NoKo,they are now trying to save face,remember murikan president Donny boy saying "North korea will never have the ability to strike US"? still gives me hell like laugh :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
The US has a long track record of toppling countries. Afghanistan's Taliban in 2001. Iraq's Saddam in 2003. Gaddafi's Libya in 2011.

The only problem with North Korea is China's objection.

If China gives the green light to the United States then Kim Jong Un is gone. It's that simple.
 
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The US has a long track record of toppling countries. Afghanistan's Taliban in 2001. Iraq's Saddam in 2003. Gaddafi's Libya in 2011.

The only problem with North Korea is China's objection.

If China gives the green light to the United States then Kim Jong Un is gone. It's that simple.
yah bro, "long record of toppling countries" Afghanistan :partay:,Iraq :laugh: ,libya :rofl:
are you serious brah?i am wishing you good luck from bottom of my heart to try to topple NoKo :P
trust me,i am really wising good luck,because you are gonna need it,hell a lot of it :wave:
 
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yah bro, "long record of toppling countries" Afghanistan :-)D),Iraq:-)sarcastic:) ,libya:-)rofl:).
are you serious brah?i am wishing you good luck from bottom of my heart to try to topple NoKo :P
trust me,i am really wising good luck,because you are gonna need it,hell a lot of it :wave:
The Taliban are still hiding in the countryside.

Saddam is dead.

Gaddafi is dead.

I say the US toppled the governments in those countries.
 
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If China gives the green light to the United States then Kim Jong Un is gone. It's that simple.
:omghaha:so will New york, good luck ,stop fooling people,show us if you can :-)

The Taliban are still hiding in the countryside.

Saddam is dead.

Gaddafi is dead.

I say the US toppled the governments in those countries.
whom are you trying to fool brah?the world?or yourself? :enjoy:
 
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America has not won a war since 1945. What makes anyone think it would win the new Korean War?

Why would China cooperate with the US? What does it get in return? Would America stop harassing China in the South China Sea? Will it stop have conniptions over island building? Would it let China absorb Taiwan? Will it start supporting Belt and Road Initiative?

Without such a deal, I don't see China doing anything except encouraging NK to pull off some more shenanigans.
 
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The US has a long track record of toppling countries. Afghanistan's Taliban in 2001. Iraq's Saddam in 2003. Gaddafi's Libya in 2011.
The countries you've mentioned were not nuclear powers. Think twice before toppling North Korea, they've got nukes. US can never get into armed conflict with North Korea, collateral damage on both parts will be unimaginable.
 
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You can always tell when China opposes a US invasion of a country.

China has vetoed THREE TIMES the US proposal to attack Syria. (China cast a Permanent Veto on February 4 2012, July 19 2012, and May 22 2014)

No Chinese UN Security Council Veto for Saddam. Saddam gave Iraq's best oil fields to western countries and gave China sub-standard oil fields. No point in expending Chinese political capital to save Saddam.

No Chinese UN Security Council Veto for Gaddafi. Gaddafi gave his best oil fields to an Italian company. Gaddafi also criticized Chinese business transactions in Africa. Good riddance to Gaddafi.

To date, I don't recall any Chinese UN Security Council Veto for North Korea's Kim Jong Un.

Kim Jong Un has ignored China's suggestions of modernizing North Korea.

China would be better-off with a more pro-business North Korean leader.

Why not let the Americans bomb Kim Jong Un? As long as the US Army returns to the 38th parallel, a new North Korea would be stable and a long-term business partner for China.

The countries you've mentioned were not nuclear powers. Think twice before toppling North Korea, they've got nukes. US can never get into armed conflict with North Korea, collateral damage on both parts will be unimaginable.
No. Atomic weapons will not deter a mature thermonuclear power.

Saddam had chemical weapons. He was too afraid to use them on the invading US Army. The US threatened to nuke Saddam's hometown if chemical weapons were used.

The US has already nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Playing hardball with the US will only get all of North Korea nuked.

North Korea can cause damage to South Korea, Japan, and US bases. However, the cost could be extinction. The US has the power to erase North Korea from the map with a single Ohio-class SSBN.

One Ohio-class SSBN carries 24 Trident II SLBMs. Ignoring treaty limitations, the maximum number of MIRV warheads is about 10 per SLBM. That's 240 warheads per Ohio submarine. Each W-88 warhead is 475 kilotons.

Say goodbye to North Korea.
 
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Chalo acha ho gaya, US assurance is Pathar pe lakeer.

Can North Korea can become one more position to counter China. may be Afghanistan progress is not turning out as per expectations, so need to work on other options.
 
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@Martian2 my friend,

I agree with your thesis/analysis. Indeed, without PRC's green light the US won't do a thing in NK...saving madness from fat Kim.

However, picture is a bit complex one. A conflict and resounding victory by the US is in best interests of JP. Please, percieve it...that JP is leading from behind in this one...always on the lookout to produce nuclear weapons for 'self defence'. Let us never forget the massacre that the imperial Japan did in China!

So keeping JP boxed is imperative for China's national security.

Who will pay for the NK refugees coming to China? And the cost to the Chinese business and international trade? Shipping and insurace will go through roof...

I still stand by my earlier position that the best and only permanent option for NK issue is that China incorporate NK on humanitarian basis... the culture is so close that assimilation would take no more than a decade. And with China's building capacity... NK will be transformed beyond recognition.

Furthermore, the reason for the US staying in SK would vanish...not that the US would leave out of free will...but publich pressure in SK would make it impossible for the ruling elite to ignore without political price.

The security environment has changed drastically. And the need of the buffer state i.e. NK is not valid any more. Besides, China is not what China was ten...even twenty years ago.

The only way to achieve Peace and Harmony in NE Asia is through incorporation of NK within PRC. The SCS is secured now. Time for reaching security maximum in ECS and solve those islands issues there as well.

That the US will NOT honour its pledge is a given. And the PRC is no fool!!!!
 
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murikkans are seriously delusional.They always like to use the word "wipe out" against other countries. saddam had chemical weapons he could use on "US army"?what was the range?to which extend one can use chemical and bio weapon effectively? does using chemo weapons on invading army balances against the ability to deliver WMD into enemies heartland?
playing hardball against america?do america have balls?playing hard balls against non-nuclear and nuclear states are same?i guess not,above report is proof.
hilarious,my enemy has "single submarine" that can erase my country for map,and i have "many small nukes" to erase new york from map,willing to take the bet?
that is considering my enemy will have the capability to control the fallout of detonation,because NoKo share a very little very cute border with russia,china.the fallout enters their territory,less than 20 RS-28(have upto 24 warheads,can deliver mere 50 megaton per missile) will be required to obliterate america's(half of the size of russia) atom,molecule from existence.
ba bye amerika :wave: they will have eternity to get matured after that.
 
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@Martian2 my friend,

I agree with your thesis/analysis. Indeed, without PRC's green light the US won't do a thing in NK...saving madness from fat Kim.

However, picture is a bit complex one. A conflict and resounding victory by the US is in best interests of JP. Please, percieve it...that JP is leading from behind in this one...always on the lookout to produce nuclear weapons for 'self defence'. Let us never forget the massacre that the imperial Japan did in China!

So keeping JP boxed is imperative for China's national security.

Who will pay for the NK refugees coming to China? And the cost to the Chinese business and international trade? Shipping and insurace will go through roof...

I still stand by my earlier position that the best and only permanent option for NK issue is that China incorporate NK on humanitarian basis... the culture is so close that assimilation would take no more than a decade. And with China's building capacity... NK will be transformed beyond recognition.

Furthermore, the reason for the US staying in SK would vanish...not that the US would leave out of free will...but publich pressure in SK would make it impossible for the ruling elite to ignore without political price.

The security environment has changed drastically. And the need of the buffer state i.e. NK is not valid any more. Besides, China is not what China was ten...even twenty years ago.

The only way to achieve Peace and Harmony in NE Asia is through incorporation of NK within PRC. The SCS is secured now. Time for reaching security maximum in ECS and solve those islands issues there as well.

That the US will NOT honour its pledge is a given. And the PRC is no fool!!!!
I think the problem is that North Korea's Kim Jong Un is not playing ball with China.

When China sends envoys to discuss the situation with North Korea, Kim Jong Un ignores the Chinese envoys.

Since North Korea is not willing to be a team player and moderate its actions, Kim Jong Un has to face the consequences.

Israel is allowed to keep its atomic weapons, because it stays silent and doesn't flaunt its weapons of mass destruction.

North Korea is very different. It behaves like it can do whatever it wants. We've seen this before in Iraq. Openly challenging the United States leads to only one outcome.

Unless North Korea changes course and soon, I predict Kim Jong Un will not last another two years.
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There are only two outcomes. A negotiated settlement or military force.

After four days, China's special envoy to North Korea could not obtain a meeting with North Korea's Kim Jong Un.

The little brat thinks he can do whatever he wants. That's what Saddam thought. Let the Americans deal with Kim Jong Un.

Kim Jong Un won't talk to China. That means a negotiated settlement is off the table.

That leaves only the military option. I hear F-22 fighters and B-2 bombers in North Korea's near future.

Xi Jinping’s envoy heads home from North Korea but China silent on talks with Kim Jong-un | South China Morning Post (November 20, 2017)
"A special envoy of Chinese President Xi Jinping wrapped up his four-day visit to North Korea on Monday with no mention of a meeting with Kim Jong-un, the leader of the reclusive state."
 
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I think the problem is that North Korea's Kim Jong Un is not playing ball with China.

When China sends envoys to discuss the situation with North Korea, Kim Jong Un ignores the Chinese envoys.

Since North Korea is not willing to be a team player and moderate its actions, Kim Jong Un has to face the consequences.

Israel is allowed to keep its atomic weapons, because it stays silent and doesn't flaunt its weapons of mass destruction.

North Korea is very different. It behaves like it can do whatever it wants. We've seen this before in Iraq. Openly challenging the United States leads to only one outcome.

Unless North Korea changes course and soon, I predict Kim Jong Un will not last another two years.
I guess Kim figured out that the best strategy to preserve the rule of his family is isolation. If he opens to China, the outrageous lies that have helped maintain the rule of his family will be exposed. If he opens to US, the same result. So, he dug in.
 
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China had previously cut off oil to North Korea temporarily for a few days.

Chinese Oil Giant Cuts Off Fuel Sales to North Korea | Foreign Policy (June 28, 2017)
"But amid fears of the hermit kingdom’s instability, the measure isn’t likely to be permanent."

In late November 2017, China's special envoy to North Korea spent four days without being able to meet Kim Jong Un.

The US is bending backwards. Secretary of State Tillerson has said the US is willing to talk to North Korea without preconditions.

There are reports that China is preparing refugee camps along the North Korean border.

The US has assured China that the US military will pull back to the 38th parallel after a North Korean invasion.

Where does that leave us today?

North Korea won't talk to China.

If North Korea also won't talk to the United States then talking is a dead-end.

US President Donald Trump will not accept the status quo. He needs a "win" for his re-election campaign. It is incredibly dangerous when a US president is weak at home (e.g. Russia-Trump investigation by Special Counsel Mueller) and he needs a big foreign policy win.

China is NOT going to send tens of thousands of Chinese soldiers to their deaths to defend an obnoxious and inflexible Kim Jong Un.

That means the US will eventually invade North Korea. The US foots the military costs. China pays for the humanitarian costs. North Korea is stabilized after Kim is removed. Everybody goes back to business as usual.

Do you see another reasonable outcome? I don't.
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As a reminder, during the Korean War (1950-1953), UN troops led by the US crossed the 38th parallel on October 1, 1950.

On October 18 1950, China ordered 200,000 troops into North Korea which occurred on October 25 1950.

"On 25 November at the Korean western front, the PVA 13th Army Group attacked and overran the ROK II Corps at the Battle of the Ch'ongch'on River, and then inflicted heavy losses on the US 2nd Infantry Division on the UN forces' right flank.[204] The UN Command retreated; the U.S. Eighth Army's retreat (the longest in US Army history)[205] was made possible because of the Turkish Brigade's successful, but very costly, rear-guard delaying action near Kunuri that slowed the PVA attack for two days (27–29 November). On 27 November at the Korean eastern front, a U.S. 7th Infantry Division Regimental Combat Team (3,000 soldiers) and the U.S. 1st Marine Division (12,000–15,000 marines) were unprepared for the PVA 9th Army Group's three-pronged encirclement tactics at the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, but escaped under Air Force and X Corps support fire—albeit with some 15,000 collective casualties.[206]

By 30 November, the PVA 13th Army Group managed to expel the U.S. Eighth Army from northwest Korea. Retreating from the north faster than they had counter-invaded, the Eighth Army crossed the 38th parallel border in mid December.[207] UN morale hit rock bottom when commanding General Walton Walker of the U.S. Eighth Army was killed on 23 December 1950 in an automobile accident.[208] In northeast Korea by 11 December, the U.S. X Corps managed to cripple[209] the PVA 9th Army Group while establishing a defensive perimeter at the port city of Hungnam. The X Corps were forced to evacuate by 24 December in order to reinforce the badly depleted U.S. Eighth Army to the south.[210][211]"

When you look at the Korean War timeline, the US had two months (October 1 1950-November 25 1950) to return to the 38th parallel. If the US had done so, China would not have intervened in the Korean War.
 
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I doubt the Chinese will trust American on this.

5. US has assured China that American troops will pull back to the 38th parallel (DMZ line) after a war with North Korea.

I trust USA on this one.

As USA don't need troops to attack China like in WW2. USA can launch missile, and South Korea and Japan is quite close enough.
 
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